More Refunds!

Pierce The Veal·Dec 13, 2015·11 votes·1,109 views

I feel like the megathread is right, we need moar refunds! They should be able to be reobtained!

Them not giving us more only goes to show that Riot doesn't trust us or their product that much. Let me put it this way, someone who doesn't want to spend more money on League ISN'T GOING TO SPEND MORE MONEY CAUSE HE CAN'T GET REFUNDS. But someone who is willing to spend money will feel more comfortable doing so because they are given a guarantee if they make a mistake.

So now, fellow board goers, we must fill the entire boards with posts about MOAR REFUNDSSS! So that Riot has to take notice of us.

Edit: I'm not doing this because of my own reasons. I don't have any actual purchases that I want to refund at the moment. I am saying this because I genuinely believe that being a little more lenient on refunds would turn Riot a profit and increase customer trust.

24 Comments

BergkDec 13, 20154 votes

I've been playing since 2010. I own 325 skins... I have 3 refund tokens left. I've never bought a skin that I regretted purchasing... how is this possible? Because I took Riot's advise "Before purchasing content, we would highly recommend taking a look at our previews for skins and champions in our Forums or in the Champion Spotlight videos to ensure that you are making an informed purchase." Because Riot has a strict no refund policy, the fact that you are provided with three exceptions to their no refund policy is very nice of them.

My skin collection

Pierce The VealDec 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I've been playing since 2010. I own 325 skins... I have 3 refund tokens left. I've never bought a skin that I regretted purchasing... how is this possible? Because I took Riot's advise "Before purchasing content, we would highly recommend taking a look at our previews for skins and champions in our Forums or in the Champion Spotlight videos to ensure that you are making an informed purchase." Because Riot has a strict no refund policy, the fact that you are provided with three exceptions to their no refund policy is very nice of them.

My skin collection

There will always be people like you who are committed to a company regardless of whether they offer refunds. However, it is important to note that a "strict no refund policy" is indicative of a company that doesn't believe in their own product. How many people would be willing to buy an Apple product if they didn't offer a guarantee? There would be people like you, who purchased an iPhone but didn't get any problems. But then there would also be people who bought one the broke in 2 days, only to not be given guarantee.

In short, you are so devoted to Riot that you're willing to not let others have refunds which would allow them to eventually become devoted as well.

i've spent 75 dollars on this game since I started in 2011-2012. Why only that much, you ask? Well I quickly realized that spending money on the game was a risky proposition. Because I refunded ip champions without knowing that I wouldn't get more refunds, I can no longer look at the "updated" darkflame shyvanna and want out. And that's just not ok. I am 100% certain that Riot would have a lot more than ~3 dollars spent per customer if people felt they would get what they want if they bought RP.

Sona PingDec 14, 20151 votes

Being able to get more refunds would be "nice". I agree with that sentiment.

{quoted}

How many people would be willing to buy an Apple product if they didn't offer a guarantee? There would be people like you, who purchased an iPhone but didn't get any problems. But then there would also be people who bought one the broke in 2 days, only to not be given guarantee.

That is in no way equivalent. Not even close to equivalent. These aren't broken, people don't refund things in League from the. being non-functional. They do it because they don't "like" it and in the real world the vast majority of companies do not just hand-out refunds for that, a person's opinion doesn't change that they bought it. Even if it was broken, which it isn't, companies' policies are to most frequently give out replacements for the same, not refunds. And I'm pretty sure Valve believes in Steam, for example.

P.S.: It is excessively easy to look at Darkflame Shyvana, and not even need to want out in the first place.

Pierce The VealDec 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mms5rviu,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-14T01:22:56.125+0000)

Being able to get more refunds would be "nice". I agree with that sentiment.

That is in no way equivalent. Not even close to equivalent. These aren't broken, people don't refund things in League from the. being non-functional. They do it because they don't "like" it and in the real world the vast majority of companies do not just hand-out refunds for that, a person's opinion doesn't change that they bought it. Even if it was broken, which it isn't, companies' policies are to most frequently give out replacements for the same, not refunds. And I'm pretty sure Valve believes in Steam, for example.

P.S.: It is excessively easy to look at Darkflame Shyvana, and not even need to want out in the first place.

I liked when darkflame shyvana when she was pitch black better than now.
It was an analogy and wasn't supposed to be taken literally. Moral of the story is people do stupid things. To an extent stupid things are their fault, but people like it more when they can get away with their stupidity from time to time. Trust me, someone, somewhere has used all 3 of their refunds on 450 ip champions (bought with ip, of course).

DevlinCrowDec 14, 20151 votes

Great comment :)

TotN TitanDec 13, 20154 votes

You don't need more refunds. You just need to be smarter about what you're buying. People have ample time to try out champions on free weeks before they buy new ones. People have plenty of resources to preview the cosmetics before they make a purchase. People just need to be RESPONSIBLE about what they're purchasing and doing their due diligence before they click that buy button.

And it's awfully presumptuous for you to say that Riot "doesn't believe in their product" or are "afraid... that people would never buy RP again". Offensively, even. Riot has consistently backed their product and continues to invest in it. They want to bring you new content so that you will buy RP. They know that you are going to buy RP because there is so much content. Extra refunds just muddy the waters of numerous useless transactions in the background that Riot has to keep track of. I commend them for putting a limit on the millions of players in their game.

YumaS2AstralDec 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=TotN Titan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mms5rviu,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-13T21:12:56.476+0000)

You don't need more refunds. You just need to be smarter about what you're buying. People have ample time to try out champions on free weeks before they buy new ones. People have plenty of resources to preview the cosmetics before they make a purchase. People just need to be RESPONSIBLE about what they're purchasing and doing their due diligence before they click that buy button.

And it's awfully presumptuous for you to say that Riot "doesn't believe in their product" or are "afraid... that people would never buy RP again". Offensively, even. Riot has consistently backed their product and continues to invest in it. They want to bring you new content so that you will buy RP. They know that you are going to buy RP because there is so much content. Extra refunds just muddy the waters of numerous useless transactions in the background that Riot has to keep track of. I commend them for putting a limit on the millions of players in their game.

The problem is when you are a new player.

Back when I started to play this game in 2013 I refunded Karthus and Shen to buy Wukong. Then I refunded Assassin Yi to buy Ahri for a friend.

I didn't knew that refunding champions was a waste, and Assassin Yi is a cheap skin so it wasn't worth refunding it. Also, I didn't knew that purchasing champions with RP wasn't worth.

If Riot wants to keep just 3 refunds, they have to better inform the players about what sort of content is worth refunding.

DevlinCrowDec 14, 20151 votes

That is kinda your fault, as soon as I saw the refund button I knew I only ever had 3 refunds and haven't wasted them.

1 extra a season wouldn't hurt though

Pierce The VealDec 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=TotN Titan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mms5rviu,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-13T21:12:56.476+0000)

You don't need more refunds. You just need to be smarter about what you're buying. People have ample time to try out champions on free weeks before they buy new ones. People have plenty of resources to preview the cosmetics before they make a purchase. People just need to be RESPONSIBLE about what they're purchasing and doing their due diligence before they click that buy button.

And it's awfully presumptuous for you to say that Riot "doesn't believe in their product" or are "afraid... that people would never buy RP again". Offensively, even. Riot has consistently backed their product and continues to invest in it. They want to bring you new content so that you will buy RP. They know that you are going to buy RP because there is so much content. Extra refunds just muddy the waters of numerous useless transactions in the background that Riot has to keep track of. I commend them for putting a limit on the millions of players in their game.

The more responsibility you give your customer the more likely you're going to run out of customers. It's like developing computer programs and expecting the users to be responsible. No Jimmy, they will exploit things and they will put letters into the number input. And guess what? It's not their fault!

Extra refunds just muddy the waters of numerous useless transactions in the background that Riot has to keep track of. I commend them for putting a limit on the millions of players in their game.

I'm not sure you understand how databases work. But anyway, all I'm saying is adding some more refunds wvery year would encourage players to spend more.

Brendy BearDec 13, 20151 votes

Yeah. Last time i used a refund was more than a year ago.

Pierce The VealDec 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Brendy Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mms5rviu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-13T18:36:24.098+0000)

Yeah. Last time i used a refund was more than a year ago.

So make a thread about it! Help us get notice!

I refunded rengar twice, riven once, and olaf once. Four refunds because one of them was from before the refunds were handed out (I emailed support).

All of them were IP purchases.

SerevasDec 13, 20151 votes

I used up all my refunds on champions that I regretted purchasing, then later repurchased them anyway so I could have all the champions, I preview all skins that I purchase through youtube videos, lolking 3d model view, etc. At this point I see zero reason for refunds to even exist, and I can tell you the fact that Riot even provides the option to refund is exceptionally generous as no other games to my knowledge provide the option to refund purchases short of credit card fraud.

Pierce The VealDec 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I used up all my refunds on champions that I regretted purchasing, then later repurchased them anyway so I could have all the champions, I preview all skins that I purchase through youtube videos, lolking 3d model view, etc. At this point I see zero reason for refunds to even exist, and I can tell you the fact that Riot even provides the option to refund is exceptionally generous as no other games to my knowledge provide the option to refund purchases short of credit card fraud.

You're right. They don't refund purchases. Neither would Riot. RP isn't worth money, refunding IP or RP doesn't make Riot lose any money. What they're afraid of is that people would never buy RP again if they could refund. Which is true in the short term. But if you offered one bonus refund a year?

SerevasDec 13, 20151 votes

I honestly wouldn't use them, I'd basically just collect refunds indefinitely. Most of the skins that I have and don't want/use are from my addiction to mystery skin purchasing, and you can't refund those anyway.

Each rune that I own are used in some degree in at least a single rune page, excluding some really specific ones that just got phased out when I stopped playing Soraka, but they're still there for if I ever pick up the champion again. Acquiring all champions was useful for champion swapping in champ select, I can now trade anyone any champion they want from whatever pick order as long as they have the champion as well, it also means I have no issues about trying out anything that seems interesting to me. The skins I have are all interesting within their own right and I don't regret having any of them, as again, the ones I'm not a huge fan of are from mystery gifts/mystery skin buys.

Furthermore if I actually went out of my way to purchase a skin, like Bloodfury Renekton for example, I know that future visual upgrades to the skin, will most likely simply make the skin better in appearance while maintaining it's original theme as closely as possible. Poppy skins for example are all better than their previous form, to the point where I purchased Noxus Poppy despite not being likely to play the champion very much. There will still be moments where I may dabble with the champion, or it might be a pretty solid pick in a certain situation.

I read one of your posts to another person on offering guarantees. Apple wouldn't have people purchasing, if they didn't offer a guarantee, which is true, but they also don't provide any sort of product for free on which that guarantee exists. People forget that this game is entirely free, slight speed ups in progress, the ability to accelerate your purchase of champions, and the chance to customize your champions' appearance through alternative looks are available, but none of that is required, you're perfectly able to not spend a penny on the game if you so desire.

Guarantees aren't typically offered for free on any product, it's part of the reason a new iPhone runs $600, they've already covered the risk of having to send out another one. In fact I'm pretty sure the iPhone 6 only costs the company $200 to manufacture, to then sell it at triple the cost, you've covered the cost of the initial product with $400 profit assuming you don't have to send out another one, and if you do, you're still coming out with a profit equal to what it costs. To have to send out two phones under that guarantee to a person you still break even, but are likely profiting on a large number of other people. So believe me those guarantees are not out of their faith in the product, they've already hedged their bets through the cost of the product.

Pierce The VealDec 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Snip

Everything you said is fair, but you did neglect one thing. When we refund skins or champions, we're not getting our money back. We're getting back IP or RP. Neither of them have any cash worth. I can't take RP and go buy something from a competitor. Riot still has the money. They could be just a tad bit more lenient and that would increase their customer base.

I, personally, don't really have anyone or anything I particularly want to refund (except maybe yasuo, he's cancer). I'm only here because Riot's policy is pushing some of their customers away.

SerevasDec 13, 20151 votes

I honestly don't think it does, at least not to much of a degree. There's people who will go ahead and make purchases, and people who won't. The people who do, typically make continual purchases, and it's more than enough to keep Riot running, in fact I'm pretty sure they're so far in profit they have zero financial worries.

To be honest I think their no refund policies display that they're confident enough in their product to believe it will sell despite the risks associated with it.

Pierce The VealDec 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I honestly don't think it does, at least not to much of a degree. There's people who will go ahead and make purchases, and people who won't. The people who do, typically make continual purchases, and it's more than enough to keep Riot running, in fact I'm pretty sure they're so far in profit they have zero financial worries.

To be honest I think their no refund policies display that they're confident enough in their product to believe it will sell despite the risks associated with it.

That sort of confidence isn't profitable in business. The customers need to be confident as well. If they're really confident in their product they would be willing to offer refunds more often, because they're certain that people will come back and buy more despite being able to refund once a year. This will simultaneously encourage people who wouldn't buy regularly to drop some cash into the game.

SerevasDec 13, 20151 votes

I'm personally not sure that it would be marginally worth it. A potion of players might utilize it to tactically refund skins that go one sale, then purchase them at their discounted rate, thus causing technical losses as a person got more out of RP than they originally would have through abusing the refund system.

I can honestly see both sides of the arguement, but for me it's not an arguement I could really take either side on.

Pierce The VealDec 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm personally not sure that it would be marginally worth it. A potion of players might utilize it to tactically refund skins that go one sale, then purchase them at their discounted rate, thus causing technical losses as a person got more out of RP than they originally would have through abusing the refund system.

I can honestly see both sides of the arguement, but for me it's not an arguement I could really take either side on.

Yeah. Hard to really say 100%. It's just that the precedent of refunds increasing profit is so huge that it's hard to say it wouldn't work for Riot.

MunchCrunchLunchDec 13, 20151 votes

oh yes. azir. i want to get rid of you. my first 6300 champ (it was yasuo then i refunded him for azir) yeah. realized he was extremely hard and lame to use imo

Pierce The VealDec 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

oh yes. azir. i want to get rid of you. my first 6300 champ (it was yasuo then i refunded him for azir) yeah. realized he was extremely hard and lame to use imo

I bought rengar, refunded him, bought riven, refunded her, eventually bought rengar again, and refunded him again. Now I own both riven and rengar.

I are idiot.

LeadpaintchipsDec 14, 20151 votes

know that pain. . . .

Supreme Senpai69Dec 14, 20151 votes

The fact they give us three refunds to begin with is already more than what we're entitled too and already more than what any other game does...

Pierce The VealDec 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mms5rviu,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-12-14T07:05:58.375+0000)

The fact they give us three refunds to begin with is already more than what we're entitled too and already more than what any other game does...

I'm not saying we're entitled to anything. I'm saying that giving back refunds over time would encourage players to spend. This is to get those people who wouldn't drop a penny to loosen their wallets.

Ultimately, defending Riot on this isn't helping you, nor is it really helping Riot. We won't even be getting our real money back; Riot still gets the money.

Gues what? We're not entitled to this game being free. And we're also not entitled to having cheap, or otherwise affordable skins. We're not entitled to having this game not be pay to win. There's a lot of things we're not entitled to, but getting them makes much more sense. In this case, encouraging customer loyalty does make sense, so more refund also does make sense.

There are companies that give you refunds on things that they can't possibly resell if you return them. Why? Because it makes customers feel better about their purchase, and in fact makes it less likely that they'll feel dissatisfied with the company. In this case, Riot can get that to happen without even losing the money because what is given back isn't money, but Riot points.

This encourages the masses to spend more, not just the most devoted customers.