Why are people fine with this kind of no counterplay laning phase?

Ahristocats·Jul 5, 2017·69 votes·4,340 views

this laning phase of "have range or you lose lane" ?

there isn't a SINGLE melee match up that heimer loses, his cancerous laning phase is put tower and if enemies kill them put an other tower and if you try to kill a tower you lose 50% of your hp? not only this but his rockets procs thunderlord alone and burst you if you try to play safe?

his towers cost 20 FCKING MANA, i'm so done, so done of things like traps costing 20 mana, heimer towers costing 20 mana, those huge threats in lane that are spamable and never ending suffering in lane

and then you might think, "but just kill heimer" yeah, just kill the fcking 340 base ms ranged champions that gains +20% ms when running near his towers

i want xypherous to be fired so badly, all his design decisions reguarding champions and items have been a disaster it's not even funny

162 Comments

Big LincolnJul 5, 201739 votes

make mana costs matter again

SEKAIJul 5, 201710 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mkWQGkze,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-05T14:35:54.369+0000)

make mana costs ~~matter~~ great again

fixed.

EedatJul 5, 201717 votes

Excuse me sir, what is mana? item 1056 item 3802

50Shades0fTryndaJul 5, 20174 votes

or even better, make yasuo with mana, for no reason at all :D

WacingTheFindJul 5, 20171 votes

Yasuo item 3042

Give Yasuo mana, I dare you.

SpoofghoulJul 6, 20171 votes

Alright let's do it

However his E now costs 100 mana

WacingTheFindJul 6, 20172 votes

Sure, but Yasuo gets 5 times the largest manapool in the game.

TheHappyReaperzJul 5, 201721 votes

Sion, GP, Yorick, Darius, and Ekko all do pretty well against Heimer. Sion can E Heimer turrets away, forcing them out of position without killing them, and his shield allows you to tank through the early harass. GP's Q, especially once you get Sheen, will easily clear out Heimer's turrets. Yorick Q is also pretty good, since it gives you an easy grave, and health back for the harass you took to reach it. Not to mention, your E/Q combo pretty much negates his rocket's damage. Darius can also shred through Heimer's towers, since can pull them in, then just leave em to bleed. Ekko is also pretty good against Heimer, since his Q clears out the turrets, and he's pretty slippery, making it hard to land Heimer's E.

AhristocatsJul 5, 20179 votes

how is darius good against heimer? ROFL

you didn't read? it doesn't matter if you kill a tower, he will just set up an other infinitly and believe it or not but darius has actual mana cost and will be forced to back if he does what you say

TheHappyReaperzJul 5, 201712 votes

Darius's Q has a starting mana cost of 30, his W, which you use to kill the towers, has its mana cost of 30 refunded when you kill a unit, and halves its CD.

AhristocatsJul 5, 20173 votes

and darius has 260 mana at lvl 1 which means he can only use Q 9 times without counting his E mana cost

he isn't a mage he doesn't build doran ring, he doesn't take mana regen runes or masteries

KuroCaliberJul 5, 20172 votes

He does take corrupting portion, and unless your start before minions get to lane, you can't even q nine times without reaching level 2.

TheHappyReaperzJul 5, 201714 votes

Doesn't matter. Heimer turrets have a 20 second recharge time, and, at level one, with 50 AP, have a base health of 152.5. A level 1 Darius has about 72 AD, with a Doran's blade and AD reds, meaning his W does about 101 damage. So you can auto-E Heimer turrets to kill them, without expending any mana. And, since your W resets your auto-attack timer, you can do it pretty quickly.

AhristocatsJul 5, 20172 votes

so you don't take in account the AP ratio of heimer towers?

sure thing bud, sure thing

TheHappyReaperzJul 5, 20178 votes

I did though. Base turrets are 150 health, with a 0.05% AP ratio.

AhristocatsJul 5, 20172 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/0be603ce8d1bf95843909d903f225589.png

ok so you were right

except towers have armor and take 10% reduced damage which means there will be a point in lane where darius can't kill a tower with AA+W anymore

Jinzo TorranceJul 5, 201717 votes

http://i.imgur.com/RZ21M7Q.png

TheHappyReaperzJul 5, 20172 votes

And at that point in time, Darius will have more AD, a BC, and his passive armor pen on his E, which really negates the 10 - 80 armor Heimer's turrets get.

DanjengJul 5, 20174 votes

0.05%? So if Heimerdinger has 10,000 AP, he gets only 5 hp on his turrets! That's pathetic! He's not Veigar (wrong yordle), how's he supposed to get that much AP?

I think you mean 5%. It also scales to 40% at level 18. Still, Darius could clear a turret with AA+W, unless there are 3 of them clumped up together. In that case, Q should whittle them down.

For clarification, let's have a quick math lesson. 100% is a 1x multiplyer. That means 10% would be a 0.1x multipler, and 5% a .05 multiplier. Stay in school, buddy. https://media.giphy.com/media/3og0IMJcSI8p6hYQXS/giphy.gif

TheHappyReaperzJul 5, 20173 votes

Yep, my bad. It is 0.05, but as a decimal, not a percent. Sorry, I had just finished my Stats course, so my brain was somewhat impaired.

DanjengJul 5, 20174 votes

You have to take into account base mana regen, along with mana growth per level. Darius's mana costs are not high at all. By the time you have exhausted your mana (assuming you don't just spam spell the instant they are off cool down), you would have enough gold to back and buy more items.

EedatJul 5, 201733 votes

In what world is Heimer letting Darius or Yorick just walk up to his towers without eating an E>W combo and like 6 autos? In what world is Darius' 24 second cooldown pull an effective way of dealing with Donger's three turrets on a 20 second cooldown?

Where is this magical land of make believe?

TheHappyReaperzJul 5, 201712 votes

Where is this magical land of make believe where Heimer has 3 skills at level one? Also, I said he could use his E to pull turrets, if necessary. That doesn't mean you can pull three at once. However, Darius can easily kill the turrets, with an Auto/E on a 4.5 second CD.

EedatJul 5, 20174 votes

lolwut I just got done telling you Darius' E has a 22 second cooldown. Doesnt even matter. At level 1 you're going to eat like 5 autos trying to clear one tower. At level 2 you'll be eating a full Donger W + the autos.

What a magical land it must be

TheHappyReaperzJul 5, 20174 votes

My bad, mistyped there. I meant Auto/W, which has a 9 second CD, halved when you kill the unit, and happens pretty instantaneously, since it resets your auto-attack timer.

Morgan le FeyJul 5, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Ekko is also pretty good against Heimer, since his Q clears out the turrets, and he's pretty slippery, making it hard to land Heimer's E.

People also seem to forget that Ekko's W stuns all of Heimer's turrets and gives Ekko a shield for when the turrets are back online. Ekko's Q not only clears out turrets, but also can match or even exceed Heimer's shove power, thus taking away the vast majority of Heimer's power. As long as Ekko saves his E or flash to deal with Heimer's E, there's not a lot Heimer can do to shut Ekko down. A good Ekko absolutely trounces Heimer.

Sraeg2013Jul 5, 201715 votes

there isn't a SINGLE melee match up that heimer loses

Yasuo : Hi.

JunkοJul 5, 20179 votes

Yasuo : Turrets? You mean free E dashes?

deoje299Jul 5, 201715 votes

Well according to op.gg heimer loses to champions such as Yasuo , Chogath , Talon , Nasus , Mordekaiser , DrMundo , Pantheon , Renekton , Riven , Irelia , Maokai ,and Sion over 50% of the time. So i dont know if "there isn't a SINGLE melee match up that heimer loses" is completely accurate.

JunkοJul 5, 20172 votes

I'm pretty sure it means overall game winrate, not lane winrate (how would you even determine lane winrate?)

Also from personal experience, champs like Talon and Nasus do not do well vs Heimer.

LaetitianJul 5, 20172 votes

Of course it means game winrate. That is what matters. If your champion lets your team win fights after laning, while the enemy champion is barely relevant, you won lane.

Succubús GFJul 6, 20172 votes

Read the title then try that again

BacefJul 5, 20178 votes

"not a single melee matchup heimer loses" Sion "IS THIS WHAT PASSES FOR WAR???"

SalsonJul 5, 20176 votes

Idk who said it: "Heimer is made for a different game"

He's also similar to Nunu, too boring to play even if broken.

Morgan le FeyJul 5, 20175 votes

Depends on what you enjoy. A lot of people love the more defensive/safe playstyle he offers. Most of those people don't play games that encourage aggression like MOBAs do, mind, but still.

Not Too SeriousJul 5, 20173 votes

stonewall008...?

SambersJul 5, 20175 votes

Stonewall008 said it ages ago---

ChønklordJul 5, 20176 votes

LOL someone is seriously complaining about Heimerdinger?

Sweet baby jesus. I knew players on the boards were a whiny bunch, but this is just too much.

What's next; 'OMG Soraka mid too OP!' ?

EuthenaasiaJul 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mkWQGkze,comment-id=0026,timestamp=2017-07-05T23:28:19.595+0000)

LOL someone is seriously complaining about Heimerdinger?

Sweet baby jesus. I knew players on the boards were a whiny bunch, but this is just too much.

What's next; 'OMG Soraka mid too OP!' ?

Have you actually played against the reworked Heimer? It's something that is so rare that it's not been complained about on the boards but it's definitely eyebrow raising.

ChønklordJul 7, 20171 votes

Yes, I have; it's complete garbage and I ran over all of them.

EedatJul 5, 20175 votes

Almost true. I main MonkeyKing and I completely annihilate Donger. Ezpz lane. Although it's only because I have stealth to escape from trades until 6. After 6 I can just destroy him over and over again whenever my ult is up

You should try it. It's a little rough until you hit level 3 though

DaNinadJul 5, 20175 votes

Fiora can actually do well against heimer, also renekton can dash through the turrets and burst heimer down at level 6. Jarvan works wonders due to this q being longer range than heimers turrets. If you really cannot dodge anything, just play syndra or ziggs top lane and completely outrange him. As a melee champ I find pantheon more cancerous tbh.

TimX24968BJul 5, 20175 votes

Sion oh, you had a turret there?

would be a shame if...

someone were to move it....

JamenawerlJul 5, 20174 votes

His counterplay is surviving laning phase since his transition into lategame is utter garbage and almost every champion out-scales him. Also, he doesnt have a single targeted ability so its possible not to recieve any damage from him if you play passively. His strong early game is a fair trade-off.

Pantheon is more BS in that sense if you ask me.

SociopathFriendJul 6, 20173 votes

I forgot Donger has nothing but point-and-click skillshots and his turrets are intangible and cannot be harmed or moved.

CréamJul 5, 20172 votes

Sion Pre nerfed E was good against Heimerdinger

He just throw that shit away lmao

TimX24968BJul 6, 20174 votes

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE PROPER PERMITS TO BUILD HERE, HEIMERDINGER

EnrovyJul 5, 20171 votes

I think malz actually counters heim quite well

CasterGilgameshJul 5, 20171 votes

but malz is almost as bad as Hiem because he has his malific vision to help him last hit and if you dare get close to farm you best hope RNGsus doesnt let it jump to you or else he summons his minions to swarm you...then you cant even fight back because he will just silence you.also he has one of the best stuns in the game.

PureSilvrrJul 6, 20173 votes

Malefic*
Malz W is really bad now, it has like 150(not sure) range, and theres barely any worth in leveling it usually, theyre just there to tank hits more now
Supression* 4 Dodge the silence?