Boards›Gameplay

@Meddler, Thoughts on Zyra?

SnugglePuggle94··8 votes·857 views

So far all we know is that you possibly will look at her but no promises. Well, can you give us an exact answer as if you are? Is she part of the "immobile mages" you are looking at to change/rework? Also, what are your thoughts on changing her?

As a Zyra fan, I don't main her but have leveled her up to mastery 5. I have seen her weaknesses and to me, she needs love from Riot.

Let me talk about some things here that are completely obvious:

Passive: Everyone hates this. You have to die to use her passive properly, and even then it's hard to use it because it has a 2 SECOND DELAY. Not to mention the damage isn't even that noticable even early game. By the time that delay is over, usually it's useless to try to use it as the enemy has gotten away. That needs to be changed probably the most out of everything.

Q: I like the damage, though again, the delay is too long. Enemies can see it coming and quickly get out, especially in mid lane if she's going against an extremely high mobility/high dash/ultra mega insane champion that can step out of it easily.

W: For this, I would change the second plant dealing 50% reduced damage. Just let her have full damage, it's not that much. Just like Lux got her second damage on her q up to 100, so can Zyra. I also think that the seeds could be given a QoL like if she uses them for vision in a bush they last a bit longer or if someone steps on it they are rooted for x amount of seconds like Cait's traps.

E: Besides the passive, this spell irks me the most. The root at maxed is 1.75 seconds. Morgana's snare at FIRST LEVEL is 2 seconds. That is way too short and for how squishy she is and how quick she can be deleted (which she needs health buffs), that root is way too short and she needs compensation for that.

R: This ult I love for the AoE damage, but again, you put a DELAY on it for a very short KNOCKUP. Before the preseason Meddler, you put a increase in the knockup from 1 to 1.5 seconds then reverted it. That would've been a nice buff but no, you took it out. Take out the delay so it knocks up immediately and that might be nice, or shorten the delay and lengthen the knock up.

Overall, Zyra needs help. Her damage numbers are fine, her utility is not. She's squishy, slow as a turtle, weak in health and resistances. It's about time you buff her instead of nerfing her or not doing anything at all (ahem, like Sona has been neglected).

Meddler, I want your thoughts about this. What are some changes you are thinking about and will she be addressed soon?

20 Comments

Twink Lover 693 votes

The worst thing is that her base health is like 475 even with health runes. Not to mention her PASSIVE, usually by the time that 2 SECOND wait to use it happens, the enemy is chugging a potion and out of the range of killable from the measly passive thorn.

Beldair2 votes

I agree. Love Zyra to death and love her abilities but they need some help. If my Zyra can't even keep a Zed rooted long enough for her wombo combo W/W/Q/R then we have a problem. Now can i still beat a Zed yeah. It's that dang Ahri that is the bane of all Zyra mains i'm sure. I dispise her but if Zyra got the buffs mentioned above, it would give her a better chance against the mobility Ahri has.

Narasimha2 votes

Speaking AS a Zyra main here, I disagree with most of these points.

Passive: Everyone hates this. You have to die to use her passive properly, and even then it's hard to use it because it has a 2 SECOND DELAY. Not to mention the damage isn't even that noticable even early game. By the time that delay is over, usually it's useless to try to use it as the enemy has gotten away. That needs to be changed probably the most out of everything.

This is the point I agree with. Her passive needs a full on change, if only because it has so much more potential than just another after death burst.

Q: I like the damage, though again, the delay is too long. Enemies can see it coming and quickly get out, especially in mid lane if she's going against an extremely high mobility/high dash/ultra mega insane champion that can step out of it easily.

The delay is needed. It has a fairly low cooldown, good damage, and sets up her poke. Without the delay, it would just be hell for the opponent.

W: For this, I would change the second plant dealing 50% reduced damage. Just let her have full damage, it's not that much. Just like Lux got her second damage on her q up to 100, so can Zyra. I also think that the seeds could be given a QoL like if she uses them for vision in a bush they last a bit longer or if someone steps on it they are rooted for x amount of seconds like Cait's traps.

You really don't know Zyra that well. Her plants are her primary source of damage. Having max damage on all of them would be INSANE. It wouldn't even be remotely funny. Her seeds don't need anything either. They're meant to be a deterant, a warning sign that a plant could pop up there soon. As such, the counterplay is to crush the seed before that happens. Having a root defeats that purpose.

E: Besides the passive, this spell irks me the most. The root at maxed is 1.75 seconds. Morgana's snare at FIRST LEVEL is 2 seconds. That is way too short and for how squishy she is and how quick she can be deleted (which she needs health buffs), that root is way too short and she needs compensation for that.

Morg's Q also only hits one target, whereas Zyra's E can hit multiple enemies, AND sets up a slow. Different uses, different abilities.

R: This ult I love for the AoE damage, but again, you put a DELAY on it for a very short KNOCKUP. Before the preseason Meddler, you put a increase in the knockup from 1 to 1.5 seconds then reverted it. That would've been a nice buff but no, you took it out. Take out the delay so it knocks up immediately and that might be nice, or shorten the delay and lengthen the knock up.

It damn well better have a delay. It is the single largest source of hard cc in the game. It has a HUGE radius, to where hitting 4 or 5 enemy champions is the norm. Without the delay, you'd be fucked beyond belief. You'd also have to cut the damage or size of the spell, neither of which is appealing to me.

Overall, Zyra needs help. Her damage numbers are fine, her utility is not. She's squishy, slow as a turtle, weak in health and resistances. It's about time you buff her instead of nerfing her or not doing anything at all (ahem, like Sona has been neglected).

She needs some slight attention in her scaling health, perhaps, but nothing more than that. She is as much a poke mage as a utility one. She's meant to be squishy because it's the tradeoff for her ability to easily chip away at the opponent.

A Miss Fortune2 votes

She is as much a poke mage as a utility one. She's meant to be squishy because it's the tradeoff for her ability to easily chip away at the opponent.

I don't see how it's easy to "chip away" at the opponent when all of Zyra's abilities have absurd delays.

Her Q delay is so long that any champion can simply walk out of it, even with the lowest base movement speed. That's pretty sad that Zyra's main damage ability's delay is so long that there isn't an excuse to be hit by it unless you're already under crowd control. Zyra can't poke that well there are so many other champions who poke significantly better than her. Between Zyra's abilities having delays and Zyra having a pretty sucky mana pool with high mana costs on everything she's so outclassed by most poke mages.

It feels like Zyra's success relies solely on the incompetence of the enemy. Any decent player will be able to simply walk out of Zyra's abilities, forcing Zyra to waste mana that she's already extremely hungry for and leaving her open for easy all-ins. While Zyra does a lot better in teamfighting, she's still easy to kill even if she's fed due to her lack of mobility, being squishy, and she doesn't have the best range.

Narasimha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=meMnIgKe,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-12-13T16:44:47.590+0000)

I don't see how it's easy to "chip away" at the opponent when all of Zyra's abilities have absurd delays.

Her Q delay is so long that any champion can simply walk out of it, even with the lowest base movement speed. That's pretty sad that Zyra's main damage ability's delay is so long that there isn't an excuse to be hit by it unless you're already under crowd control. Zyra can't poke that well there are so many other champions who poke significantly better than her. Between Zyra's abilities having delays and Zyra having a pretty sucky mana pool with high mana costs on everything she's so outclassed by most poke mages.

It feels like Zyra's success relies solely on the incompetence of the enemy. Any decent player will be able to simply walk out of Zyra's abilities, forcing Zyra to waste mana that she's already extremely hungry for and leaving her open for easy all-ins. While Zyra does a lot better in teamfighting, she's still easy to kill even if she's fed due to her lack of mobility, being squishy, and she doesn't have the best range.

Q + Thornspitter adds up to a lot of poke. And yeah, a lot of champions can walk out of it, just as a lot of champions can dodge Xerath's Q, or Lux's E, or Vel's Q. And yet on a skilled player, those abilities hit more often than not. Why? Because you learn to expect what the opponent will do. They're only human, after all. Theres only so many actions they can take with limited time. The more you practice, the more you're able to understand your champion's skills and how to make best use of them. Sure, you're not going to always catch a Zed or lock down Yas, but it certainly becomes much more than 'walking out of it'.

Also, I should rephrase. She is a poke mage AFTER being a utility mage. Her focus isn't the damage. It's the cc. Her lock down potential is only matched by Lissandra, who in turn has lower damage than Zyra. Yeah, Xerath, Ziggs, Lux, and the like can all out poke her. But they don't hold a candle to the team utility she brings.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

Wow, to say that I don't know her well is absolutely rude. I do know her well and I know her w is her main source of damage. To have her second do full damage would be a nice buff to her that wouldn't be that insane, because her AI is still crappy and not all the damage will be dispersed well because of that.

Her Q doesn't need that delay. With the high mana cost it's a high risk for a little reward as many can step out of it like I said. Her E is still hard to hit if there are multiple people coming after her and from different sides. She has to choose who to root at that time and whoever she does won't be held long, while the other people are jumping on her already and she's basically dead. She needs more security because its not that much and she's killed easily.

She can not easily chip away. She has high mana costs and her abilities are easy to jump out of, just like her ult is. It doesn't need that delay because many people can just GET OUT OF IT before they are knocked up. That's just stupid. It's not like Nunu's where they are slowed so its easier for him to finish his ult with them inside. Zyra's doesn't slow so if they are smart they can just step out before they are knocked up. That delay needs to be gone.

She needs a lot of attention to her health, are you stupid? She has one of the weakest health numbers in the game! Sure she's squishy because she unloads the highest damage in the game and has CC, but it's not as reliable as Morgana, Lux, Leona, etc. It's weak compared to them and she needs to be able to stand up with them not be cast out of the group.

Also for clarification, she was designed as a mid lane MAGE. She was so atrocious at release that they nerfed her to hell and basically made her into a support, just like Karma. So she should be in that immobile mages category that they are changing.

Narasimha1 votes

Wow, to say that I don't know her well is absolutely rude. I do know her well and I know her w is her main source of damage. To have her second do full damage would be a nice buff to her that wouldn't be that insane, because her AI is still crappy and not all the damage will be dispersed well because of that.

If you took it as an insult, I apologize. I simply meant it as a statement of fact. For someone who just started playing this game recently, saying you truly know a champion is more of an insult to people who do main her is far worse. I've found the recent changes to her AI to be a great improvement from before, literally a complete difference.

Her Q doesn't need that delay. With the high mana cost it's a high risk for a little reward as many can step out of it like I said.

I suspect this is more you than the norm. Many CAN step out it, as many can step out of any ability. Do many dodge it? Not that I've seen.

Her E is still hard to hit if there are multiple people coming after her and from different sides. She has to choose who to root at that time and whoever she does won't be held long, while the other people are jumping on her already and she's basically dead. She needs more security because its not that much and she's killed easily.

Uh... well, yes. That IS the point of a gank. I'm unclear as to what your point in this matter is. Unless you're trying to make Zyra a champion withotu any weaknesses?

She can not easily chip away. She has high mana costs and her abilities are easy to jump out of, just like her ult is. It doesn't need that delay because many people can just GET OUT OF IT before they are knocked up. That's just stupid. It's not like Nunu's where they are slowed so its easier for him to finish his ult with them inside. Zyra's doesn't slow so if they are smart they can just step out before they are knocked up. That delay needs to be gone.

Again, this sounds like its just you. What are you doing, dropping the ult right on the outside? It's a 700 unit wide AOE knockup. And you honestly want no delay on that? Honestly, maybe talking balance isn't for you. And if you think Zyra has high mana costs, try playing Lux, Lissandra, or Xerath.

She needs a lot of attention to her health, are you stupid? She has one of the weakest health numbers in the game! Sure she's squishy because she unloads the highest damage in the game and has CC, but it's not as reliable as Morgana, Lux, Leona, etc. It's weak compared to them and she needs to be able to stand up with them not be cast out of the group.

...Why the hell is LEONA in that list? You're comparing apples to oranges. A tank to a mage. Anyway, to compare the other two you listed.

Morg has better cc and survivability, but she has lower damage. That's her tradeoff. Lux has better damage, but has higher mana costs and weaker CC. That's her tradeoff.

I do agree her health could use some love, but as I said, nothing more.

Also for clarification, she was designed as a mid lane MAGE. She was so atrocious at release that they nerfed her to hell and basically made her into a support, just like Karma. So she should be in that immobile mages category that they are changing.

I am aware. I WAS THERE. I still play her mid as her primary role.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

{quoted}

If you took it as an insult, I apologize. I simply meant it as a statement of fact. For someone who just started playing this game recently, saying you truly know a champion is more of an insult to people who do main her is far worse. I've found the recent changes to her AI to be a great improvement from before, literally a complete difference.

It is not a fact. Sure I haven't played long but she is one of my favorite champions and I know her well. Don't just assume something that isn't true. It's rude and it gets you reported. I am not an "insult to people who do main her."

I suspect this is more you than the norm. Many CAN step out it, as many can step out of any ability. Do many dodge it? Not that I've seen. I have seen many that have dodged my spells and then I wasted my mana because of the stupid delays.

Uh... well, yes. That IS the point of a gank. I'm unclear as to what your point in this matter is. Unless you're trying to make Zyra a champion without any weaknesses?

I do know what the point of a gank is. Good Lord. I was trying to make clear how short her root is, not try to make her with no weaknesses. In a gank her root won't last holding a champ long, and her slow mobility will just let the jungler/whoever she didn't root to be able to jump on her.

Again, this sounds like its just you. What are you doing, dropping the ult right on the outside? It's a 700 unit wide AOE knockup. And you honestly want no delay on that? Honestly, maybe talking balance isn't for you. And if you think Zyra has high mana costs, try playing Lux, Lissandra, or Xerath.

Just shut up. I place my ult really well. But people with higher movement speed/mobility can easily step out. Good lord you are awful, saying talking balance isn't for me. How rude.

...Why the hell is LEONA in that list? You're comparing apples to oranges. A tank to a mage. Anyway, to compare the other two you listed.

I'm talking about her CC you idiot. Not her being a tank. I'm talking about her stun/root/ult stun and slow, good Lord.

Morg has better cc and survivability, but she has lower damage. That's her tradeoff. Lux has better damage, but has higher mana costs and weaker CC. That's her tradeoff.

Still, if she is described as a support, she needs to have her cc be better like theirs, not worse.

I do agree her health could use some love, but as I said, nothing more. I am aware. I WAS THERE. I still play her mid as her primary role.

So do I. But her CC is not that reliable and she's weak overall in many aspects. I'm just trying to show that, and I don't need you, a judgmental rude person to be attacking me for it.

Narasimha1 votes

.. Don't forget to leave a space between quotes, it makes it a pain to decipher.

It is not a fact. Sure I haven't played long but she is one of my favorite champions and I know her well. Don't just assume something that isn't true. It's rude and it gets you reported. I am not an "insult to people who do main her."

You may love Zyra, but the fact is, you don't have that much experience with her. It's not a matter of 'like' or 'know'. Unless you're some kind of League genius, in which case I'd expect you to be much higher than Bronze, you don't have the time or experience to really REALLY know a champion.

I have seen many that have dodged my spells and then I wasted my mana because of the stupid delays.

Then simply practice more. Anticipate their movements. Delays are there for a reason, so that the enemy CAN work around it. That's part of their counterplay, just as yours is planing around their planing. Or should we remove Xerath's delays? And Malazahar's? Or even Cho'gath's?

I do know what the point of a gank is. Good Lord. I was trying to make clear how short her root is, not try to make her with no weaknesses. In a gank her root won't last holding a champ long, and her slow mobility will just let the jungler/whoever she didn't root to be able to jump on her.

Again, entirely the point. Because she's good at pushing and zoning, she's vulnerable to being ganked. That's part of her design. Same exact philosophy for Malzahar.

Just shut up. I place my ult really well. But people with higher movement speed/mobility can easily step out. Good lord you are awful, saying talking balance isn't for me. How rude.

Mobility abilities are fair, that is their purpose. But if someone is literally just walking out of your ult, then its not the ult, or them.

I'm talking about her CC you idiot. Not her being a tank. I'm talking about her stun/root/ult stun and slow, good Lord.

And also her lack of poke, range, and damage, right? Don't forget to compare EVERYTHING.

Still, if she is described as a support, she needs to have her cc be better like theirs, not worse.

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain she's a mage first, support second. She's balanced around that. Could be wrong here though, I need to find some Meddler responses to her.

So do I. But her CC is not that reliable and she's weak overall in many aspects. I'm just trying to show that, and I don't need you, a judgmental rude person to be attacking me for it.

She has her weaknesses, and she has her strengths. Just like any other champion. She's fine as is. If you buff something of hers (other than her passive), you'd have to take something else away. And as it stands, that's simply unneeded.

And for the record, looking back, amusingly enough, you've been far more aggressive and rude to me than the other way around.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

{quoted}

.. Don't forget to leave a space between quotes, it makes it a pain to decipher.

I did, it didn't work. I don't know how to really use this quote mechanic.

You may love Zyra, but the fact is, you don't have that much experience with her. It's not a matter of 'like' or 'know'. Unless you're some kind of League genius, in which case I'd expect you to be much higher than Bronze, you don't have the time or experience to really REALLY know a champion.

"I don't have much experience"????? Screw you. Again you are assuming things. I have a lot of experience with her. Stop it.

Then simply practice more. Anticipate their movements. Delays are there for a reason, so that the enemy CAN work around it. That's part of their counterplay, just as yours is planing around their planing. Or should we remove Xerath's delays? And Malazahar's? Or even Cho'gath's?

I don't need practice. I know how to anticipate where they will move and plan accordingly. They still step out of it because of the delay. It's not my lack of "experience" with her but most enemies being smart enough to step out.

Again, entirely the point. Because she's good at pushing and zoning, she's vulnerable to being ganked. That's part of her design. Same exact philosophy for Malzahar.

I know. I'm still talking about her root duration and how I want it increased. Not her vulnerability.

Mobility abilities are fair, that is their purpose. But if someone is literally just walking out of your ult, then its not the ult, or them.

It's the ult. The delay on the knockup is too long.

And also her lack of poke, range, and damage, right? Don't forget to compare EVERYTHING.

I'm talking about the CC. Stop being rude.

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain she's a mage first, support second. She's balanced around that. Could be wrong here though, I need to find some Meddler responses to her.

I know that she was made as a mage but they pushed her into the support role. So if she's mostly a sup now, she needs the CC to be on par with the other supports.

She has her weaknesses, and she has her strengths. Just like any other champion. She's fine as is. If you buff something of hers (other than her passive), you'd have to take something else away. And as it stands, that's simply unneeded.

Um, I see plenty of buffs in the last patches on champions and they didn't have anything taken away to compensate for it. So Zyra can get help too.

And for the record, looking back, amusingly enough, you've been far more aggressive and rude to me than the other way around.

Um, excuse me? You started things by saying rude things that weren't true. I'm just defending myself and telling you to stop. Which you clearly aren't.

manbearswine2 votes

{quoted}

Passive: Everyone hates this.

I'm actually fine with her current passive,and I think most of the hate for it is for the wrong reasons.

Her passive as is is a weak passive,there's no denying it,but having a weak passive doesn't really mean anything,nothing prevents that power from being placed into the rest of her kit,most people are just looking for buffs here,asking to replace it with something stronger,and complaining about it to get her buffed through that.

Her passive as is fits with her theme,same as kog'maw's fits with his,it's not particularly satisfying because it's not particularly strong,but there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

Q: I like the damage, though again, the delay is too long. Enemies can see it coming and quickly get out, especially in mid lane if she's going against an extremely high mobility/high dash/ultra mega insane champion that can step out of it easily.

The delay is fine,it's reasonable compared to other skillshots,yes she has issues with high mobility champions,but so do most skillshot based champions.(However,I find the range on it questionable)

W: For this, I would change the second plant dealing 50% reduced damage. Just let her have full damage, it's not that much. Just like Lux got her second damage on her q up to 100, so can Zyra. I also think that the seeds could be given a QoL like if she uses them for vision in a bush they last a bit longer or if someone steps on it they are rooted for x amount of seconds like Cait's traps.

I really dislike this idea,it seems like something which would cause really stupid interactions and ability use,maybe make it not apply when the plants are of a different kind(that is a thorn spitter won't reduce the damage of a vine lasher).

E: Besides the passive, this spell irks me the most. The root at maxed is 1.75 seconds. Morgana's snare at FIRST LEVEL is 2 seconds. That is way too short and for how squishy she is and how quick she can be deleted (which she needs health buffs), that root is way too short and she needs compensation for that.

Well it can hit multiple targets,which causes issues in lane(minions blocking the snare for morgana is a serious hindrance for her),I agree that the spell as is is too weak,maybe increase the duration+hitbox for the first target hit(say +0.75 seconds,and missle speed is reduced after the first target)?

R: This ult I love for the AoE damage, but again, you put a DELAY on it for a very short KNOCKUP. Before the preseason Meddler, you put a increase in the knockup from 1 to 1.5 seconds then reverted it. That would've been a nice buff but no, you took it out. Take out the delay so it knocks up immediately and that might be nice, or shorten the delay and lengthen the knock up.

Although I agree with this,we are talking about an ability with a very big aoe,and part of zyra's problem is her winrate not reflecting her strength(yes the situation is THIS stupid),I would rather not put more power into abilities which tend to confuse solo q,such as big aoes.(I know that this sounds really stupid,but this is where we are at with riot's winrate balancing)

Overall, Zyra needs help. Her damage numbers are fine, her utility is not. She's squishy, slow as a turtle, weak in health and resistances. It's about time you buff her instead of nerfing her or not doing anything at all (ahem, like Sona has been neglected).

Meddler, I want your thoughts about this. What are some changes you are thinking about and will she be addressed soon?

Inb4 "her winrate is fine therefor she is fine and she just has hidden power that only the blind can see"

SnugglePuggle942 votes

I welcome your insight, just glad you aren't taking shots at my "lack of knowledge in balance" and lack of "experience" like the guy below. I can see her root holding multiple targets but the duration is still too weak in my opinion.

The things I talk about in the post are the things I see in my opinion that could be changed for the better, if not all of them at least some. I just want to see what Meddler thinks about it, as if he sees all the things that are wrong then he can know what is the best thing to change/fix and make Zyra fans happier. I'm not saying all of them but at least a couple. Her plant AI a couple patches ago was a great buff but is still lackluster, and some of these improvements could help her play a whole lot better.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

I can see her root holding multiple targets but the duration is still too weak in my opinion.

To clarify on that one,I think that it's strength as being able to hit multiple targets is mostly a strength in lane(except not really,because it is weak early),the issue is that if you just buff it it will become rather obnoxious in lane,with zyra being too safe(behind creeps) and too scary(doesn't care for creeps blocking her way) at the same time,I definetly think a lot of her problems are tied with this spell being weak,but you need to be careful about where you want to buff it,I think that it is currently fine offensively(in lane),but way too weak defensively,hence why I think that buffing it for the first target hit(both hitbox and duration) is a good idea(better pick potential,safer from ganks,not as weak when she lacks lane control,better roam,safer roaming-all places where she is lackluster,without making her much stronger offensively),I don't think that just buffing it is a good idea.

The things I talk about in the post are the things I see in my opinion that could be changed for the better, if not all of them at least some. I just want to see what Meddler thinks about it, as if he sees all the things that are wrong then he can know what is the best thing to change/fix and make Zyra fans happier. I'm not saying all of them but at least a couple. Her plant AI a couple patches ago was a great buff but is still lackluster, and some of these improvements could help her play a whole lot better.

Honestly I feel that riot's understanding of zyra's state is very shallow(and comes down to "we took a glimpse of her winrate a few weeks ago"),If you look at her latest buff it started with an ult and ai fixes,then they realized that the ai fixes were pretty big so they didn't go through with her ult buff(which raises the question of "if her plants were so bugged fixing them was considered a serious buff(because a 0.5 extra duration on her ult is a serious buff,and they didn't go with it due to ai changes) why did it takes them literally years to try(they are actually still bugged,just less so) and fix them?"),only for the changes to have a minimal impact on her winrate(which is kind of the only thing they talk about whenever zyra is mentioned),implying absolutely no understanding of her situation.

Finally there was recent talk about buffing her plants scaling per level and ult duration,which is moronic as zyra's biggest issues lie in her early game(yes,even if her winrate would suggest otherwise),that alongside the fact she get's no skins lead me to believe zyra is a VERY low priority for them and they have very little understanding of what she does,what bugs she has,what her weaknesses are,and what to do with her,I think that even if meddler were to comment it would just be "We believe zyra isn't as weak as people think she is because her winrate is high".

SnugglePuggle941 votes

I like that idea, where her root is stronger on the first one she hits and falls off on the rest of the targets she hits. I perfectly agree with your understanding of how Riot thinks of her. Just like Sona, where they don't know how to rework her because of her auras and how to balance her power between them, they won't do anything about her. I forget what it was but they nerfed her a little bit ago that made a lot of people angry, and she didn't need nerfs to begin with. I just hope they can fix things and find out something they can do with both of them.

Krys Star1 votes

Personally, I prefer Stranglethorns wouldn't knock up immediately. I'd rather they keep the delay, however, after the knockup initiates and ends, the massive thicket remains. It slows all enemies within by 20% / 25% / 30% over 2 / 3.5 / 5 seconds.

I know Zyra is already a champion with an abundance of cc and utility, but I think it'd be a great and fun idea that'd compliment her playstyle as a champion that would trap and ensnare enemies to the abuse and dominance of her plants. That, or her plants gain double (12) health over that same duration instead of slowing. Zyra's plants are amazing, but they still have a pretty silly AI, on top of being way too easy to eliminate and escape.

Her plants just feel like an oomph to her kit, instead of her kit detailing around her theme as this Queen of the Stranglethorns, trapping and laying havoc on her enemies with her beloved plants. But that's just me, and my idea.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

I wouldn't mind that, but I just hate how it's so easy for people just to walk out of her ult before they are knocked up, and then she's wasted an ult that did not much at all.

Lovely Pants1 votes

If I am recalling correctly, several times it's been mentioned that Zyra is being balanced primarily as a support and would not be a major target of the immobile mage work. That said, maybe they might think of some things that could be experimented with on casters played as supports through the process.

Been a while since I played Zyra, but her counter-initiation has always been among the strongest in the game with her kit. Without the delays on all of her skills you'd be granting her close to Annie-level initiation on top of that. I don't think it's even a good idea to try to find a middle-ground on reducing the delay from where it is.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

She's balanced as a support because they nerfed her so hard she became one, but she was made as a mid lane mage, so she should be in that immobile mage category. I think she needs help in her delays as it is way to long and most people can step out of her spells therefore wasting the little mana she has. Her CC is weak compared to most and her root's duration is absolute crap. She needs work.

manbearswine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lovely Pants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=meMnIgKe,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-12-13T16:29:03.621+0000)

If I am recalling correctly, several times it's been mentioned that Zyra is being balanced primarily as a support and would not be a major target of the immobile mage work.

That's interesting,considering pretty much all supports who needed help received more attention than she did,apparently when supports are being looked into zyra is a mage,and when mages are being looked into she's a support,kind of explains why she's where she's at.

Been a while since I played Zyra, but her counter-initiation has always been among the strongest in the game with her kit.

It's absolute shit now,if your team is mobile you just dash through it,if your team isn't mobile someone should get righteous glory anyway,which her delay isn't balanced around,and completely destroys whatever shred of viability she managed to maintain before it,right now zyra works only if you let her,and survives on her "I never see her so I don't bother learning how to work around her" status,there's a reason this champion is never seen in competitive play(Hell,aren't kench,braum,thresh-the supports who dominated worlds,supposed to be countered by her?).

Vekkna1 votes

Meddler: crickets

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by SnugglePuggle94

Can you guys stop giving AD all the good stuff?
Gameplay154 comments
89
votes
If these AP changes go live...
Gameplay69 comments
75
votes
@Meddler, stop nerfing Evelynn
Gameplay126 comments
69
votes
So you nerf Elise, Riot?
Gameplay95 comments
61
votes
PSA: If you are not comfortable with a champion, don't take said champ into ranked
Gameplay80 comments
52
votes
This really hit me
Gameplay62 comments
39
votes