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Can you guys stop giving AD all the good stuff?

SnugglePuggle94··89 votes·17,872 views

I mean, not only do they have better AD itemization, but now, after you hugely NERFED mages and their mana, you are taking away one of their best "runes," aka, Ultimate Hat, and putting it into the domination tree.

And replacing it with this measly 2 second MS boost:

[New] Nimbus Cloak (S2) Takes place of The Ultimate Hat Effect: Shortly after casting your Ultimate ability, gain a powerful, decaying movement speed increase for 2s. Increase: 100 Movement Speed Cooldown: 25s

Really Riot? What the hell are you thinking? We mages need that rune, and not all can just go into Domination willy nilly because that tree is not suited for them unless they are the likes of Diana or whatever.

What is your reasoning behind this?! Just to "nerf" Zed and others? Or that it's just too "powerful"?

Well, maybe,** if you had given AP half the amount of brainpower that you did AD when you made the new runes, they would have a COUPLE of good and powerful options to choose from rather than just one-ULTIMATE HAT.**

Come on Riot. You can do better than this. Give us our rune back or give us something GOOD in return, not a crappy MS boost that we don't really need.

154 Comments

Step Sis Lux51 votes

i think they are moving ultimate hat to red tree because they want assassins to have it without taking sorcerery XD

SnugglePuggle9442 votes

Which is complete BS. They keep showing their AD bias with every stupid choice they make.

It's honestly mind boggling and so frustrating.

Step Sis Lux3 votes

Ye i really dont like this cuz i main lux and ziggs cuz i love to playing with presence of mind as secondary rune, but also now ap champions gonna be able to play with electrocute and take Transendence and garhering storm as secondary

FOR JUSTICE16 votes

not nessicerily Ekko Akali Fizz Evelynn Diana

want electrocute, and they're all ap based.

SnugglePuggle9426 votes

What about these champions?

Anivia Annie AurelionSol Brand Cassiopeia Elise Janna Karma Karthus Lissandra Lulu Lux Malzahar Morgana Nami Orianna Sona Soraka Taliyah Veigar Velkoz

See the pattern here? ACTUAL MAGES. Wtf are they going to take now? Anything else other than Ultimate Hat is completely trash.

Step Sis Lux2 votes

i guess most of champions, for example syndra lux veigar velkoz gonna be now electrocute, ultimate hat i hope gonna be on the bottom so champions like ahri zoe lb wont be hurt by ultimate hat and dash rune in one "lane" Eyeball and as secondary gathering and celarity/trans

SnugglePuggle944 votes

What about the other mages? The supports, especially ones that need the sorcery tree for Manaflow Band?

Nothing sees appealing right now to them.

Step Sis Lux9 votes

i dont understand, like manaflow is in lane with ultimate hat, so nothing gonna change for them XD but idk if thats what u mean

SnugglePuggle945 votes

They are moving Ultimate Hat to the Domination Tree. So actual mages that don't use Electrocute can't just go in that tree for Ultimate Hat.

What else can they use? Cause everything else is just trash.

SooFr0sty9 votes

They can get both ultimate hat and mana flow band.

Ravenous hunter is always good, zombie ward and ghost poro are great for supports.

So you can go domination secondary.

SirWittOfGreen2 votes

But a lot of mages with the rework on mana really like having Presence of Mind. Those who aren't good at utilizing the Domination keystones but want Ultimate hat and Presence of Mind will have to chose subpar choices to get both or just forgo a fun rune that many mages enjoy or give up Presence of Mind a not quite must have but a rune that sure helps in mid/late team fights.

Metal Janna2 votes

{quoted}

What about the other mages? The supports, especially ones that need the sorcery tree for Manaflow Band?

Nothing sees appealing right now to them.

Biscuits are good on mage supports. They let you poke a little more without running out of mana or putting yourself at a health disadvantage. Just remember to use them only when you think you're at risk of dying. They restore a percent of missing health and mana so you get more out of them if you take more damage before using them.

SnugglePuggle942 votes

That might be an option but who knows. Will have to see the updated stats after the patch to see what is working best.

NemeBro31 votes

{quoted}

What about these champions?

Anivia Annie AurelionSol Brand Cassiopeia Elise Janna Karma Karthus Lissandra Lulu Lux Malzahar Morgana Nami Orianna Sona Soraka Taliyah Veigar Velkoz

See the pattern here? ACTUAL MAGES. Wtf are they going to take now? Anything else other than Ultimate Hat is completely trash.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Anivia/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Annie/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/AurelionSol/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Brand/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Cassiopeia/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Elise/ (lol wtf Elise with Ultimate Hat)

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Janna/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Karma/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Karthus/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Lissandra/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Lulu/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Lux/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Malzahar/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Morgana/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Nami/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Orianna/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Sona/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Soraka/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Taliyah/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Veigar/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Velkoz/

Of the champions you posted, Karma is literally the only one who is most successful with Ultimate Hat and uses it most. Karthus, Lux, and Lissandra use it most but it is the lowest win rate rune in that tier for Karthus and Lux, mid-tier for Lissandra.

Seriously, why would Elise of all champions want Ultimate Hat?

SnugglePuggle943 votes

Again, I was just pulling ALL of the MAGES.

Not all use them but a good of them do, and really rely on it.

NemeBro14 votes

{quoted}

Again, I was just pulling ALL of the MAGES.

Not all use them but a good of them do, and really rely on it.

Sorry, but almost none of the champions you posted rely on Ultimate Hat.

Why Elise though? Why do you think she relies on it? Can you tell me?

Schàdenfreude10 votes

faster transformations of course xddddddddddddd

SirWittOfGreen2 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, but almost none of the champions you posted rely on Ultimate Hat.

Sorry, but what? "Almost none"? Really? I use it on 11 of them that he posted. And the reason I don't use on some of the others is because mana problems dictate Manaflow Band. If there was some better regen or quicker mana items I'd be fine. Though I am low elo so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

My Waifu Vanilla29 votes

The thread is about mages getting gutted by the removal of ultimate hat from sorcery. He proved you wrong in that claim.

Thread is over. You are complaining for the sake of complaining and circlejerking that mages suck by pulling strawmans with no actual evidence to support it.

Weiss Guertena4 votes

The problem is, lots of those champions are going to be even worse off with Nimbus Cloak - some to the point of not even having a rune if they pick it. Are you going to take it on Janna, Malzahar, Lux, Karthus, Vel'koz, Taliyah or Nami? Congratulations, you wasted most (if not all) of the buff time before your ultimate even finished casting!

Riot could have at least given mages a good replacement instead of this crap, but sadly mages aren't ADCs or assassins, and as such they aren't eligible for getting actually useful tools.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Manaflow band is still a strong rune, and nullifying orb can save you're as in many matchups. His stats show that Nami already works best with manaflow band for example, so how would anythzing change for her? She will still be useing manaflow and doing well with it.

Weiss Guertena4 votes

You're missing the point I'm trying to make. Replacing a rune with a new one should offer more options, not less - yes, Nami works best with Manaflow band, but you have the option of using Ultimate Hat if that fits your playstyle more. When it gets replaced with this new keystone, Nami and many more won't have that option - it will be Manaflow Band 100% of the time. I'm not complaining about moving Ultimate Hat here, but rather about viability (or lack of it) of its replacement.

The fact that certain champions work best with Manaflow Band doesn't excuse turning another rune into trash. If that was the case, might as well simply delete other runes with no replacement. After all, Nami for example will still be doing well so nothing will change for her.

Besides, knowing Riot, once Manaflow Band becomes the absolute go-to pick since alternatives are trash, they'll nerf it because "it's crowding out other rune picks on the same tier" rather than thinking "maybe if it had viable alternatives it would be picked less".

FOR JUSTICE4 votes

I thought the convo was about ad assassin favoritism by moving stuffs to the domination tree, but assassins like zed are pretty successful with it, I just gave examples of AP assassins that would take electrocute and opt into ultimate hat.

Colte6 votes

{quoted}

What about these champions?

Anivia Annie AurelionSol Brand Cassiopeia Elise Janna Karma Karthus Lissandra Lulu Lux Malzahar Morgana Nami Orianna Sona Soraka Taliyah Veigar Velkoz

See the pattern here? ACTUAL MAGES. Wtf are they going to take now? Anything else other than Ultimate Hat is completely trash.

all the ad one tricks are gonna down vote you to oblivion

[slayer-jinx-catface]

My Waifu Vanilla8 votes

It's downvoting because ultimate hat sucks on almost everyone listed besides Karma. The thread is complaining about a problem that doesn't exist. Evidence suggests taking ultimate hat on these champions LOWERS your chance of winning compared to manaflow in that tier meaning that it's removal is honestly going to help people since the rune itself sucks ESPECIALLY on mages who get CDR for breathing thus further making the rune suboptimal.

RocketRelm3 votes

To be fair, as a Morg Mid Main (maybe was, I haven't bothered playing much last couple years), she's actually going to really like the move speed up. One of the big issues of Morg is keeping up with the enemy, and a 2 second speedup fits "perfectly" with what she wants. Aurelion Sol always wants move speed, too.

That said, I agree that most of them won't want it, as they want the move speed to launch in to do their job, not afterwards. I think this is more of a problem with Sorcery as a tree feeling underwhelming though.

FilDaFunk4 votes

They can all use electrocute pretty well. The supports (are not mages) can swap to unsealed spellbook or kleptomancy.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

No, they can't. Not really well at all. The mages that are supports, yes they are mages, need Sorcery as their primary, not Precision or the other one that I forget the name.

saltran5 votes

Some ap supps like Bard or Zyra run Elecetrocute as default.

Bijeesny2 votes

{quoted}

They can all use electrocute pretty well. The supports (are not mages) can swap to unsealed spellbook or kleptomancy.

Pls tell me which champions can use klepto to it's full potential besides Nasus Ezreal Illaoi Fiora Gangplank ?

Snowman Arc2 votes

Well, I'd love to have that new rune on Elise. The MS she would have from her form changes early would be good in the jungle.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

{quoted}

What about these champions?

Anivia Annie AurelionSol Brand Cassiopeia Elise Janna Karma Karthus Lissandra Lulu Lux Malzahar Morgana Nami Orianna Sona Soraka Taliyah Veigar Velkoz

See the pattern here? ACTUAL MAGES. Wtf are they going to take now? Anything else other than Ultimate Hat is completely trash.

too lazy to analyze everypick quoted.... but most already use domination or don't care/need ultimate hat. You list janna/lulu/lux/orianna/sona/veigar... like ultimate hat is a must have !!!!

just git gud.

Jerry SeinfeId3 votes

brand, annie, lux and anivia can all utilize Electrocute tho.

it's even brands highest winrate keystone

SnugglePuggle944 votes

What about the rest though?

Yea I didn't think so.

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

pretty sure a large part of them can use it if they want to, i just haven't done it yet.

Handy Sandy 4 votes

{quoted}

What about these champions?

Anivia Annie AurelionSol Brand Cassiopeia Elise Janna Karma Karthus Lissandra Lulu Lux Malzahar Morgana Nami Orianna Sona Soraka Taliyah Veigar Velkoz

See the pattern here? ACTUAL MAGES. Wtf are they going to take now? Anything else other than Ultimate Hat is completely trash.

You act like none of them love manaflow. On op.gg most of those don't even take ultimate hat.

If they really want ultimate hat, zombie ward is great on immobile mages so they can take that. If they're in the same row, cheap shot or taste of blood since mages don't have good sustain.

report yasuo1 votes

Yet the stats still show mages are doing just as good and some even better the only ones that are doing bad atm is someone like Ryze, Vik, Kassadin, and Azir rest are doing ok and great there are always bad champs for certain roles but the role itself is never busted.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

They don't have the stats yet to show that all these new changes are helping them "do better." They need more than one patch to figure that out.

FNC Jinx15 votes

"I'll accuse Rito of being bias by being bias"

[zombie-brand-clap]

Sun Wu Ryuumoku4 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

OJPhoenix13 votes

OP you confuse me. Why aren't you telling us why Domination secondary is bad?

The COST of going Domination secondary is not getting other things like free Stopwatch, but seeing as how Domination runes have ward stuff, its literally useful on everyone in the whole game.

So please, tell me why Domination Secondary is bad? You haven't made this point, and unless you do, you're argument is incredibly flawed

Child of the Pit9 votes

Hah, that rune will be so worthless on Xerath it's painfull, and any good Xerath knows how to manage mana so Manaflow isn't Necesarry, but will pick it anyways now, cos i have no other choice :^)

Dope Solo5 votes

You're going to need the extra move speed so you can run the fuck away from this balance team's game.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku8 votes

Would be great if you (boards) understand balance before complaining.

I Am Ravi5 votes

Uhm isn't this like a good thing, now you can take Nullifying Orb, Mana-flow band, or Nimbus Cloak AND Ultimate hat?

ninjaroxas3 votes

Domination isn't really that good with most mages

I Am Ravi2 votes

Well if i'm not mistaken, domination gives AP or AD adaptively. Now you would take Ultimate hat and probably Zombie ward or one of the HUnter runes, which is spell vamp, bonus item CDR or bonus MS.

I mean with Seraph's being core on most mages Ingenious Hunter and Ultimate hat look pretty good to me, not to mention lower ward CD as well.

But that's just how I would play around the changes.

Naymliss2 votes

Sure, but then you miss out on the CDR from inspiration. A lot of mages scale really hard off of CDR, and reducing the option to take 45% cdr + ultimate hat hurts them.

Mogarl4 votes

People on boards complain that Sorcery minor runes are better than Domination minor runes Riot moves Sorcery rune to Domination Makes sense

As for AD getting better itemization, that's really only the case for adc's. Which is pretty simple. All adc's are nearly identical so they have to be more differentiated through items. Mages (and most other casters) on the other hand play entirely uniquely from each other so it's more important to try and make items they can actually use without making a million mage items.

Aerial Queen Liz4 votes

Doesn't that just mean we can get both manaflow band AND ultimate hat now, though? Yeah, you have to go into the domination tree as secondary, but that's the tradeoff for getting 15% cdr on your ultimate.

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