This really hit me

SnugglePuggle94··39 votes·1,986 views

"I've been saying for a while; in League of Legends, skill doesn't win games. Picking the most broken Champions available does."- from summoner Get Blobbed

I just sat there for a second, rereading it, and then it really hit me how true that is. It really speaks volumes about a game if the only way to win is to pick the broken champs. Sometimes I think about going back to my old games or actually play stuff on my ps4. But then League pulls me back in. I'm addicted to it but at the same time hate it for the state it is in right now.

Although I try to win by skill and playing smart, sometimes its not enough.

Riot needs to figure out the mess they have made before the game falls into despair...and even then I think its already heading in that direction.

62 Comments

Astôlfo14 votes

Except it's not really that true.

Marshbouy4 votes

except that it really is. skill wins, if you are some guy who puts 4+ hours into the game a day and gets to diamond and learns how to counter everything otherwise its picks=wins

Astôlfo6 votes

No, it really isn't. It takes maybe 5 minutes to look up a champion's weaknesses and counters. And if you're not completely new to the game, you'll probably get a general idea what to do.

Marshbouy5 votes

except it still takes skill and timing to get those counters down. so you need to overcompensate and skill for ez bullshit champs something not most can do

Astôlfo1 votes

Except, it really doesn't. And no champion is really hard. So your argument's sorta worthless. And it takes "skill" and "timing" for any champion or to counter them so... And Zed's not an "ez bullshit champ". The salt's overwhelming.

Marshbouy5 votes

example. master yi. you need to be able to hit him and stun him or he will rek you. in order to do this you have to bait out his q and make sure you actually land the skillshot. thats not a 5 minute study session outcome. you cant learn how to counter someone perfectly (which you have to do e.g. fiora tahm yi) in just 5 minutes of looking at counters

SaltyToplaneGoat5 votes

Meanwhile the effort the YI has to do: rightclick you to death while occasionally pressing Q that requires absolutely zero higher brain functionality. If that champ was at leats hard to play for how broken he can be right now...

Ariel the Cruel4 votes

Yi being broken is primarily a result of Devour. His passive stacks, Q Cool down reduction, and true damage are all on-hit effects. Meaning Sated ghost applies them. And unless I'm mistaken, Yi's passive AA applies towards Sated which creates a huge artificial AS boost.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yi has become popular due to the influx of of on hit items..

Astôlfo2 votes

Yi is stupid as hell. Thankfully, his early game is terrible. Then he gets his items and becomes bullshit incarnate. I'll concede that.

Fiora is a hyper late game player, teamfighter, and splitpusher. Her early is bad though, similar to Yi. I somewhat concede this but Fiora still has a lot of counters and ways to play around her. So yeah.

Tahm is hardly good right now. He needs his items to mean anything, his Q is a narrow skillshot with a fairly long cooldown that doesn't go through minions, it's not easy to Devour enemies, and he's been nerfed so many times thanks to QQ. Not sure what else you expect.

Most champions are fairly easy to counter though, soo.… Good job picking extreme examples?

Marshbouy4 votes

"fiora has an bad early game" thats a total lie. she has an average early game and a disgusting late game. as for master yi, thats what this post is talking about. the fact that champions get insane and ruin the game for people but riot refuses to address it. hes not like "oh hur dur yasuo so faceroll" hes like "hey look these guys are incredibly easy and are doing far better and are far harder to play against than they really should be"

Astôlfo1 votes

But, the thing is, it's not like every supposedly "FOTM"/"OP" champ is like that. There's only a few legitimately disgustingly broken champs at the moment with far too many upsides as compared to their downsides. Fiora's early poke is really meaningless even with the true damage, because in the first few levels or so, even her AAs would do more damage. It's once she gets the Q/E combo she begins to poke for anything actually significant. She still has multiple counterpicks and counterplays though, even with that. One of her biggest weaknesses is being kited, because, sure, she can parry it. But her parry CD is relatively long, and when they can kite with every AA, she's going to feel the pain. And some of her counterpicks are the supposedly "FOTM" picks people also complain about. But apparently she has no counterpicks or counterplays, because... QQer logic. shrug

Arakadia2 votes

She's not easilly kited when she can parry, dash, get ms from Aa's, and tank so much damage.

Astôlfo1 votes

Uh, do you know what kiting is? It's what - mostly - ranged champs do. Their very auto is ranged. Most of their kit is probably ranged. They're going to kite her faster than she's going to be able to parry every major ranged hit. Dash means nothing when they can also just stay away from her thanks to melee range on Fiora. Also, unlike Yasuo, her dash still takes a few seconds in between each. She only gets MS from AAs if she hits a Vital which is situationally and randomly placed on an enemy champ, meaning, she has to get near them. She only tanks that much damage once she gets that much defensive items.

Nice logic.

Arakadia2 votes

Yeah... I know what kiting means and idk why you thought I didn't.

She parries Lucian's W, Vayne's E, Trist's ult, Jinx's W, Caitlyn's net, etc.

She dashes up to the enemy, does one aa, gets movement speed from blackcleaver if she has it, gets ms, healing to get some health back from the kiting, then shreds the adc. Not to mention she has a slow/stun, dash that already has a low CD but can go down to a 1.44, gains movement speed from passive, BC, and ult, and can block the enemies CC, along with ANOTHER slow and a free crit WITH increased range, attack speed, and aa reset. So not only is she going to sprint to you with all this ms, she's going to definetly slow you once, maybe 2, and maybe slow and stun you. But then she's also going to block your CC, shred you, soak up damage like a tank, have increased range to attack you, keep dashing to you, and heal off you once she kills you.

She only gets MS from AAs if she hits a Vital which is situationally and randomly placed on an enemy champ, meaning, she has to get near them.

No der, she's melee. Yet as said above thats an easy task, getting near them.

She only tanks that much damage once she gets that much defensive items.

So do ADC's only do that much damage once they get that much damage items. But she will still shred the adcs.

I'd say nice logic so I could be snobby and rude, but you didn't have good logic tbh, Please explain to me why she is kited easilly besides "She's melee". She has much of CC, can dodge, dash abunch, be a tank and shred, heal, super fast MS, and has decent range with her E, W, Q, Hydra, etc.

Fiora is like a juggernaut that does damage and is tanky, but doesn't follow the weakness of a juggernaut. Juggernauts aren't supposed to get on you easilly, but once they do their very strong. Fiora is jumping on people faster then a rabbit on cocaine.

Astôlfo1 votes

Yeah and Lucian still has his Q, Vayne has her autos which would chunk most people in combination with her W passive as well as her empowered Q auto, Trist has her increased auto speeds/a bomb/a jump land, Jinx has her Q switch guns/her E, Caitlyn has her Q poke and zoning with her traps. If you want to add ults, Lucian has his ult which is a lot longer than 0.75s, Vayne has her ult which lets her go ham with the rest of her kit, Trist has her ult, Jinx has her ult, Caitlyn has her ult. And then they all have their AAs. So... Wow! I never knew you could parry all of those with a 24s CD. Good logic, 10/10.

"She dashes up to the enemy" Implying you'd be close enough to Fiora to let her do her combo if you were even half-intelligent. [rest of the stuff] irrelevant, read above.

Slow/stun still needs to hit, and it's quite choreographed and even shows the path it'll hit first. Yasuo's dash is faster and if you saw her dash, you'd back away and not just let her hit you or dash again. Her E doesn't apply unless she actually hits you. Her ult also doesn't apply unless you get near enough her at which point that's your own fault.

Nice bias there, your salt's beginning to show. Your points are really starting to drop in even attempt of quality. See, Fiora's a hyper-late game player. If she goes fullbuild, that's by itself a problem already. I don't necessarily agree with it, but going off the way she is for the sake of this argument, you could just... not feed her or let her do whatever she wants and get to late game and become like that?

I do say nice logic because I find it amusing to mock the lack of such. I would explain but you can't seem to understand reason so it's a waste of my time and effort. But for the sake of you, dear child, I'll briefly summarize it again, so pay attention and take notes ;) Her Q dash isn't continuous, her range is strictly limited to her AA range besides her W which is choreographed and reveals where it'll strike first and it also doesn't stun unless you try and fire hard CC at her, it has a long enough CD to be baitable if you have any idea what you're doing, her dodge is her dash which is limited to once a few seconds (nice try), won't be a tank and shred everyone till late game, her heal is minimal outside of her getting a successful ult off, doesn't have that much sudden MS boost (nice try with the overexaggeration, once again), her range on her E is still limited to her AA, her dash still only moves her with the actual attack being in AA range, the W is choreographed, Hydra is a short-range AoE.

If she's so astoundingly broken and easy to destroy everything with, pray tell, dear child, why does she just barely have over the bare minimum midway point of 50.02% (if you want to use Champion.GG) as her winrate in Plat+ (where people generally know what they're doing and how to play against various champions), and is ranked 22/56 out of the tops, which barely puts her at over halfway for the highest winning tops? And if you look at winrate as game time progresses, you'd realize it was entirely concentrated in late game that's absolutely mediocre in early.

If you want to use League of Graphs, once again, she has an absolutely average winrate for almost all ELOs, and even sinks below average (50%) in Gold. Hmm.. Gee, I wonder.

Have fun, dear child. ;) Come back when you have enough reason to not mindlessly QQ.

Arakadia1 votes

What is nasus and Ashe supposed to do about Yi? His ult counter's their only escape: a slow.

Marshbouy1 votes

Clearly you should look up a counter, pick a different champ, and just get gud

ƒoes11 votes

In almost every PvP game, there's always that bit of unbalance where something is inherently good or bad. Even in games that are in beta/alpha - pre-release, there is always going to be some sort of unbalance, and unfortunately, that's just how it is. It's impossible to get every variable right if you keep adding, nerfing, buffing, and removing.

Seenan13 votes

{quoted}

In almost every PvP game, there's always that bit of unbalance where something is inherently good or bad. Even in games that are in beta/alpha - pre-release, there is always going to be some sort of unbalance, and unfortunately, that's just how it is. It's impossible to get every variable right if you keep adding, nerfing, buffing, and removing.

May be true, but have you seen this season? Terrible.

SaltyToplaneGoat3 votes

Might be the worst so far and I have seen a LOT of shit in the last years...

Leetri2 votes

People have said that about every season, while somehow forgetting about such amazing balance periods such as The League of Cleavers, when everyone stacked as many Black Cleavers as possible and you'd run a full bruiser team. The game in general is way more balanced nowadays, but there are a couple of outliers of course (like Yi and Zed).

63536895_DEL1 votes

Every other moba is better than League in every way, except addictiveness. Other moba's have balance problems, League has players quitting left and right because its made by a company that thinks they can pull any shit they want and still have a loyal playerbase.

Blitzidious1 votes

Well, TF2's pvp is pretty balanced, there is no class outwardly better than another, and each have their own purpose. The only two definitive broken unlockables in that game are the Eureka effect(bad broken, is an overall terrible weapon besides an extremely niche, pub only playstyle), and the, well, I don't know actually. Pretty sure the only actual completely broken weapon, the Loch N load, was nerfed to being average. So, yeah. overall Tf2 has great balance.

WoonStruck11 votes

This game has always had slightly unbalanced aspects.

However, this season is grossly unbalanced to the point where players are actually questioning if the current balance team is qualified for the job...

You never know. It could be a corporate that doesn't care about the game, just the money it brings in. It could be the team being mostly dedicated to the mage rework atm. It could be anything.

But the fact still stands that the current state of the game is not normal, and if continues as it is, it will only decline further and eventually die, which is something nobody wants.

We can always speculate, but it really doesn't matter. We can't do anything about it, outside of being a voice, even if we did know. We just have to sit and see if they bury themselves or climb out of the hole.

Troll for Trump4 votes

When has the playerbase NOT complained about the balance team?

LankPants5 votes

However, this season is grossly unbalanced to the point where players are actually questioning if the current balance team is qualified for the job..

We did that last season too, right from when Sona, an already subpar support was nerfed at the start of the season we questioned why Riot was allowing the trio of Rek'sai, Lee Sin and J4 dominate the jungle. They also made questionable choices like buffing Lee Sin despite the fact he was the most picked jungler in the game.

Riot's balance team has always stumbled forwards making mistake after mistake and failing to learn from them. The only difference now is that they're targeting core systems which affect every game and fucking them up rather than individual champions. That just makes their mistakes so much more obvious since the effect every single game at all levels.

N30NP4NDA1 votes

Umm, thats because they're doing SO MANY FUCkING THINGS. Its impossible to balance this shit quickly

ADepressedLeona1 votes

The player base has always questiones the ability of the balance team.

Throughout the entire years of this game, there's always something, in every season, that makes the community go "RIOTS BALANCE TEAM IS STUPID"

This is nothing new.

WoonStruck2 votes

{quoted}

The player base has always questioned the ability of the balance team.

Throughout the entire years of this game, there's always something, in every season, that makes the community go "RIOTS BALANCE TEAM IS STUPID"

This is nothing new.

Its pretty extreme this season though. Every other time it was just a few players over-reacting.

This season's state is terrible though, and patches just 'fix' things that weren't even as high profile as others.

Slamurai Jack7 votes

You aren't stuck in Bronze because of broken champions. Get that out of your head right now. You are nowhere near the level where champion strength actually starts to matter compared to player skill.

SnugglePuggle9412 votes

And you are not even worth talking too with that comment. Using someone's rank is just rude and downright mean.

Slamurai Jack5 votes

I wouldn't even bother with it if it weren't always a Bronze or Silver player coming in with this "Skill doesn't matter" garbage. Any Plat or Diamond player could hop onto your account and get it into at least Gold in less than a week. Why? Because skill fucking matters. You didn't lose to a bronze Fiora because Fiora is super mega OP; you lost to a Bronze Fiora because you play at a bronze level. I refuse to entertain your ridiculous circlejerk. You're stuck in Bronze because you're bad at this game, and no other reason.

GlockHammer13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9IegueNo,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2016-03-20T03:52:18.136+0000)

I wouldn't even bother with it if it weren't always a Bronze or Silver player coming in with this "Skill doesn't matter" garbage. Any Plat or Diamond player could hop onto your account and get it into at least Gold in less than a week. Why? Because skill fucking matters. You didn't lose to a bronze Fiora because Fiora is super mega OP; you lost to a Bronze Fiora because you play at a bronze level. I refuse to entertain your ridiculous circlejerk. You're stuck in Bronze because you're bad at this game, and no other reason.

Then why are also high elo players complaining about the state of the game? We've even had a major post where several diamonds admits that silver can be really hard, be that because of the state of the game or not. Of course skill matters, but it matters less than having viable/overpowered or specific champion composition.

No one asked you to entertain anything and with that attitude you're better of finding your own "don't nerf my freelo" circlejerk, don't cry just because the overtuned champs that carried you are getting the adjustments they deserve.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

{quoted}

No asked you to entertain anything and with that attitude you're better of finding your own "don't nerf my freelo" circlejerk, don't cry just because the overtuned champs that carried you are getting the adjustments they deserve.

I'm pretty sure no one considers Sejuani freelo. Doesn't stop me from stomping all the Fioras, Zeds, Luxs, Yis, and Shyvanas that people are complaining about though.

And yes, silver can be hard for a Diamond player, if, and only if, you continue playing in Silver like you're still playing in Diamond. Beating silvers at their own game as a diamond quality player is super easy, provided you understand how you need to win in that elo. Point being; if you can't stomp bronze and silver players on a regular basis during laning phase, then you aren't nearly as good as you think you are. Doesn't matter what champion you're playing and what champion they're playing. Hell, I won my diamond promos on my smurf playing Leona Top and I beat a Fiora and Darius to do it. I don't want to hear your excuses because they're all bullshit.

GlockHammer4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9IegueNo,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-20T05:01:42.025+0000)

I'm pretty sure no one considers Sejuani freelo. Doesn't stop me from stomping all the Fioras, Zeds, and Luxs, Yis, and Shyvanas that people are complaining about though.

And yes, silver can be hard for a Diamond player, if, and only if, you continue playing in Silver like you're still playing in Diamond. Beating silvers at their own game as a diamond quality player is super easy, provided you understand how you need to win in that elo. Point being; if you can't stomp bronze and silver players on a regular basis during laning phase, then you aren't nearly as good as you think you are. Doesn't matter what champion you're playing and what champion they're playing. Hell, I won my diamond promos on my smurf playing Leona Top and I beat a Fiora and Darius to do it. I don't want to hear your excuses because they're all bullshit.

Right. /s

BastionKross3 votes

Of course skill matters, but it matters less than having viable/overpowered or specific champion composition.

This is what I've come to believe as well. You give a low skill player an overpowered champ and he'll win against others of his skill level a good amount of the time. You give a pro a weak champion, and he'll lose against other pros a good amount of the time.

That's not to say skill isn't important, but sometimes your choice of champion can significantly magnify or inhibit your skill. It all depends on the situation.

GlockHammer3 votes

{quoted}

This is what I've come to believe as well. You give a low skill player an overpowered champ and he'll win against others of his skill level a good amount of the time. You give a pro a weak champion, and he'll lose against other pros a good amount of the time.

That's not to say skill isn't important, but sometimes your choice of champion can significantly magnify or inhibit your skill. It all depends on the situation.

Well written, I fully agree.

Ðelofasht1 votes

Skill matters a ton more than not though. A "weak" champion may just be primarily built wrong, we have seen this in the past, where Udyr was thought to be weak, then suddenly gets a broken build and goes nuts.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

No wonder the League community and the Diamond/Plat community is so rude, because of people like you. I know not all of them are like it, but you sure don't represent the League community or your own rank well at all.

You know why I don't have a higher rank guy get on my account? Because it's cheating. I rather earn my way up than be a cheater, and mind you I actually earned my way out of Bronze last season. But like everyone else I got put back when the new season started.

I actually have beaten Fiora many times, and many other "broken" champions, or non broken champs but the player was a really good one. And then there are days where I can't beat anyone for anything and completely fall apart. So what? I keep trying.

I, and a lot of others, are NOT bad at the game. Just because you think we are doesn't mean we actually are at all. You are just one person in thousands. So shut the hell up and stop being a rude jerk.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

{quoted}

No wonder the League community and the Diamond/Plat community is so rude, because of people like you. I know not all of them are like it, but you sure don't represent the League community or your own rank well at all.

We'd be a lot less rude if people below us would stop making pathetic excuses for their own failures and, by extension, devaluing the accomplishments of those above them. "Skill doesn't matter, only OP Champs?" Then why did I grind through Gold and Plat with Aatrox, a champion widely considered to be terrible? Because I'm fucking better than the people I'm playing against. Yes, you really are bad at this game. People in bronze and silver just aren't good at this game and if you can't crush them enough to get out, then it's because you belong there. You really don't realize just how bad low elo is until you've been out for a while and then suddenly play with people of that level again. The skill and knowledge difference really is striking.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

Good Lord you are a ridiculous person. You are NOT better than everyone in the game. I AM NOT bad at all, and so are other bronze/silver players who actually try to play well (excusing the trolls, etc). Again, I give you my solid advice- shut the hell up. You are only getting downvoted and reported, and not to mention we don't believe a thing you say, because simply- it is not true.

Arakadia5 votes

I remember you, your like Dominick Destine. You've defended Yasuo's balance and I think Lux 2. You really seem like one of those FOTM players.

WoonStruck2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9IegueNo,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-03-20T03:36:27.722+0000)

You aren't stuck in Bronze because of broken champions. Get that out of your head right now. You are nowhere near the level where champion strength actually starts to matter compared to player skill.

I don't know why people are downvoting this.

Bronze through silver is easy to climb out of based on your personal ability, even if it sometimes takes time.

Yes, it can be extremely frustrating at times, but, below gold, the only thing you need to worry about is yourself. Your personal actions. You can climb by focusing on the team, but its unreliable since your team-mates are unreliable at that level. The best way to climb early on is self-improvement.

If you make the right decisions and you improve your mechanics, you WILL climb to gold.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

It's because the guy is being very rude and mean.

I know people can climb themselves. I did it before, and I'm working on doing it again. It just takes a long time trying to get through all the trolls/feeders/toxic people or those that actually don't know how to play for shit. I go through that daily. But I will climb out of Bronze again someday.

Arakadia4 votes

A: Its actually pretty hard to climb. And the game is so unbalanced its even harder. Along with alot of Bronze players are very new or don't have much experience at all and its filled with smurfs and trolls.

B: Its downvoted because he was a jerk 2.

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