Get it through your heads, people.

Kanzaki Ranko·Jul 13, 2016·33 votes·1,450 views

Counter building =/= counter play.

19 Comments

Sire HippingtonJul 13, 201621 votes

Also: counter picking =/= counter play

The AqualiousJul 13, 20165 votes

TRUE

People need to learn these things

Like, if they have a heavy AP team, build MR, not Thornmail

Kanzaki RankoJul 13, 20168 votes

{quoted}

TRUE

People need to learn these things

Like, if they have a heavy AP team, build MR, not Thornmail

What even 😂😂

The AqualiousJul 13, 20162 votes

Though the post was about counter building is equivalent to counter playing

CalabokJul 13, 20165 votes

Chicken Pie =/= Turkey Pie

WheatloafJul 13, 20165 votes

"X champion isn't broken because if you build this item, they're useless!"

That is indeed not counterplay, and is a situation that sucks for both sides.

Mandang0Jul 13, 20165 votes

^This. So sad when people defend low risk/high reward abilities by "just build armor/MR/health".

DengedenJul 13, 20163 votes

So when [insert champion you hate here] builds Hextrinker, it isn't counterplay on their part?

It's fine if you think that counterplay only entails an ability doing literally no damage but it really isn't fine.

Serika ZeroJul 13, 20162 votes

True, its better to let that Vayne, Jax and Irelia rape your team hardcore. While you could win the game easily if only you had the decency to buy a frozen hearth.

And if you see Zed in the enemy team BUILD GLASS CANNON FULL GLASS CANNON. Don't you date touch Zhonias, Gage or Guardian Angel, those ain't glass cannon items.

NineTailedMysticJul 13, 20163 votes

It's still not counter play. Counterplay is mechanical, or at the least out smarting in the moment. Counter building is definitely a thing, and is a thing everyone should do, but it's different from being able to counterplay an enemy champion.

Serika ZeroJul 13, 20162 votes

heroes in this game that have mostly point and click abilities: Akali Alistar Evelynn Fiora Garen Kassadin Katarina Kayle Kindred Maokai Mordekaiser Nasus Nunu Pantheon Rammus Renekton Shaco Singed Teemo Trundle Tryndamere Udyr Warwick XinZhao Volibear

have fun reworking all that to give em "counterplay" there's nothing mechanical you can do to stop any ADCs from auto attacking you when they are in range (exception braum, yasou and invulnerability users, still below 10). there's nothing mechanical you can do about stopping a Fiora that's in range to do her stuff.

"Out smarting" can be done in the heat of the moment, or also in advance. How do you think people won wars? Because they "outsmarted" their enemy on the battle field or because they did it before hand? Being able to adapt and defeat your enemy has been proven across the entire human history as the better course of action for winning.

Like playing rock paper scissors. rock > scissors scissors > paper paper > rock but if you are paper and you want to not lose to scissors, you better addapt and find a way to win. Like folding paper ~5 times, then scissors can't cut it anymore ;) Preparing yourself for a battle can allow you to win even against the odds.

Humans have been doing that all the time. The only way what you want "counterplay = mechanical outplay or outsmarting in the heat of the moment" can be achieved by having everyone play the same champion, and with skill shots preferably.

Otherwise, some will have the advantage over others. Like: Jax has advantage over Shyvana. Shyvana has advantage over Illaoi and Illaoi defeats Jax.

IF any of them want to win vs their weakness. They must adjust their gameplay as well as the build.

And my take is that you don't want to lose the game in champion select, right?

KnoyleJul 13, 20162 votes

The majority of those champions have obvious counterplay.

Nasus' early game is horrid and easily punished only has one cc in his kit that will only affect one champion at a time, Teemo is extremely reliant on vision and stealth Positioning is how you deal with Fiora. Garen with the ZERO lockdown Katarina's ult is literally negated by anything with a hard cc. Rammus has no reliable gap closer and his powerball is jipped by minion block. Shaco relies on vision, stealth, and baiting Vi is kiteable with her Q and R down and even if she has those up there should be someone to peel her off. Xin is a strong duelist and not much else. He is so reliant on auto attacks and his E is the only gap closer he has. Once he blows it, He's kited for days. Warwick's only gap closer is R and he can still be peeled off during it.

NineTailedMysticJul 13, 20162 votes

Akali: Rework candidate in the Assassin Update

Alistar: Support.

Evelynn: Rework candidate in the Assassin Update

Fiora: Outplay her W

Garen: Insanely kitable, especially once he uses Q

Kassadin: Rework candidate in the Assassin Update

Katarina: Rework candidate in the Assassin Update

Kayle: CC her ultimate target, or burst her before she can use it. Historically problematic kit that's likely for a rework at some point.

Kindred: Don't fight her in her W, burst her down before she can ult, don't let her proc the third E.

Maokai: Short ranged, kitable.

Mordekaiser: Short ranged, kitable, has a skillshot technically