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Jung the most toxic position in League?

Arch Mage Magnus··40 votes·4,137 views

I use to like to jung a fair bit, but I have now come to the conclusion it receives the most amount of blame / toxic behaviour in the game. Not only has Riot made the jungle neigh impossible for 80% of the cast, but if a lane loses, it's your fault. Top dies because they have the enemy pushed right into their turret, no wards, and they get ganked; first thing "Jung where are you?!?!". Oh I'm sorry? Was I suppose to be a living animated ward to just sit in the bush and guard you? You tell bot you are coming to gank and suddenly they start pushing, wiping out whole minion waves and push the enemy back instead of playing cat and mouse. Ok....great, I made the trek down here for nothing; you leave after sitting in a bush for 10 seconds and they get ganked 15 seconds later "WOW jung wtf???"

Enemy just took Dragon jung, no wards? Seriously? Yes seriously.... I am already under leveled, and have a fraction of the gold you have in lane, you really think I can afford that quick pink ward instead of an extra 2 health pots?

Well, game is lost, Jung is too busy farming instead of helping. Again.... sorry but ya know..... I can't really gank that lane when you already gave them 3 kills and they are now 3 levels above me. I guess you want me to show up so they can 2 shot me as a meat shield and you MIGHT be able to somehow get a kill.

Jung has now become the dumping ground for blame since they are suppose to support every lane. Between Riots horrible jungle balance and design, coupled with toxic team-mates under the assumption they can never ever possibly make a mistake, jung is a report waiting to happen.

68 Comments

PrinceOfStorms12 votes

I would change your topic from "most toxic" to "most abused" as "most toxic" implies that the role is the source of the toxicity.

Although to be fair

you really think I can afford that quick pink ward instead of an extra 2 health pots?

by the time either jungle is doing dragon (with a few exceptions, like jungle Aatrox, Poppy, Fiddle, and a couple others) you should have the gold to spend on a pink ward because you won't have any use for potions.

oxygen bandit1 votes

{quoted}

I would change your topic from "most toxic" to "most abused" as "most toxic" implies that the role is the source of the toxicity.

Although to be fair

by the time either jungle is doing dragon (with a few exceptions, like jungle Aatrox, Poppy, Fiddle, and a couple others) you should have the gold to spend on a pink ward because you won't have any use for potions.

Anyone can do dragon after three camps and a back. Even amumu.

Adrian Umbra3 votes

I'd argue that one. Dragon HURTS and most of the more fragile junglers won't be able to make it unless they've got team support.

oxygen bandit1 votes

You can argue it all you want, but I've done it.

L7xLoTek2 votes

With all the champions in the entire game? :o

Dryditch1 votes

I solo drag at lv 4-5 on Xin. I need the two pots I pick up to make sure it doesn't get stolen away from me or I don't get killed by the enemy jungle.

It is not my job to be constantly warding. I am clearing wards, and that is my role in this game of sight.

Celeste Benal4 votes

It is every player's job to ward. No exceptions. Even if you're just the adc using green trinkets. As a jungler, I pretty much buy 3 green wards every back unless I can't afford it (ie first back). I also check to see if I still have my purple ward out, and if not, I buy another.

If I forget to buy wards, I curse myself for it. Vision is love. Vision is life. Vision is victory.

rinsujo1 votes

Honestly, if you're spending that much on wards, just do what i do. Yellow trinket until jungle item and basic boots, then immediate sightstone and red trinket. Saves a lot of gold over the course of the game.

Dryditch1 votes

I start with sweeper, and grab a green ward when I can.

Xin and Nocturne are my two main Junglers, so early damage is more important than a ward here and there.

Add to that the fact that I'm in Bronze (stupid placements), and you get a series of games where nearly no one wards or takes advantage of wards.

In my Jungle clears, I get 3 free wards, plus I get paid for them. 1) Wolves. 2) Dragon Scuttler. 3) Baron Scuttler.

No one uses the information those wards, or my warning pings provide, so I don't bother to buy them more wards.

Hawkefire1 votes

I do tend to see junglers act more toxic than the other roles, however, you are also right that they are also abused the most.

That doesn't entirely excuse them from being guilty as well however (and I actually know of a couple people that play jungle simply as an excuse to be toxic that will simply use the excuse of "Jungle is the most abused so I have the right to be a dick blah blah blah)

Saminus Maximus1 votes

{quoted}

I would change your topic from "most toxic" to "most abused" as "most toxic" implies that the role is the source of the toxicity.

Although to be fair

by the time either jungle is doing dragon (with a few exceptions, like jungle Aatrox, Poppy, Fiddle, and a couple others) you should have the gold to spend on a pink ward because you won't have any use for potions.

Technically not true. Dragon is pathetic right now, there was a gd thread a while back showing a whole host of champions soloing drag at lvl 3. Spoiler alert jungle soraka can solo drag at lvl 3. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/y1Pr15E9-dragon-is-so-pathetic

ForgiveColour4 votes

damn from your post it sound like you got outjungled

Arch Mage Magnus13 votes

{quoted}

damn from your post it sound like you got outjungled

Nothing to do with being out jungled, just having top and bottoms that always push to turrets, never ward, and get ganked and automatically blame the jung for it. What did you expect me to do? It's not the jungs job to sit and body guard every single lane.

ForgiveColour1 votes

its season 5 and you still dont know how to tower dive? As a jungler you should look at the situation and stay around the area of your laner if you see they are pushing and back them up if needed.

Riftasaurus Rex20 votes

If you die in lane, its your fault. Yes you are pointing out things jg can do. League is to chess as Jg is to queen, a versatile piece but not solely responsible for the outcome of the game. Every piece must be utilized properly to win and if you guard pieces with the queen that are out of position you can lose your queen.

Chessburger2 votes

That is a concise and beautiful explanation.

Chaotic Reks14 votes

Taric is the real queen of the jungle

lDontLiftIcarry2 votes

Outrageous. Look at all these prada buffs I got boys.

CheckMyDoubles1 votes

Truly outrageous. Truly, truly, truly outrageous.

Dreadlocks1 votes

I'm not taking sides, but if bot lane is pushed, Lane ganks can be deadly.. just make sure ur not sitting in a warded bush.

What Is Smite1 votes

Fuckin warded bushes, you never realize how many ganks have been failed because of that shit. It's like they don't want me to mercilessly murder them

Spacesuit Spiff2 votes

I do find it terribly annoying when all 3 lanes just afk push and give the enemy jungler a free ride. Sure I can still do things, but it's 10x harder for the following reasons:

  1. If you aren't in high elo, going near the tower is pretty risky. Last time I forgot that, I had to watch my botlane pointlessly chase Jinx and Thresh into their turret (we had no way of catching them), get both their dumb asses caught in the chompers, and die.
  2. You can't always countergank, and your laners might not follow you. If you gank normally you MIGHT die 1v1 because the laner is farming, if you countergank there's a good chance you'll die 1v2 because your laner was farming.
  3. Lane ganking is the only thing in this game that makes me tilt. Sitting in a bush for 30 seconds while the laner refuses to stop shoving the wave... so painful...
Kitten of Evil4 votes

Yeah, it seems like jungler definitely gets blamed most. I just played a game where I went Rumble top (bad decision; it was my first time playing him since the nerfs -- he kind of sucks now at CS but still can't avoid pushing lane, imo) against a clearly very experienced Kha'Zix. Our jungler was in the queue with me trying to help me lane, and though my lane was the main losing lane (I think 0/4/1 by end of laning), our support and mid kept blaming our jg for Kha being fed.

junglerboy164 votes

Biggest tip I have ever received in my experience jungling was from a smurf in my first jungle match back when I just unlocked smite: "if the other guys start to get mad at you for being bad, mute them."

I had no idea how to mute until then and it makes life a lot easier. As the junglier though, don't just go into a match and hit mute all, because you generally need to communicate. Only mute if they get mad at you.

Loves Brains4 votes

When I see someone blame me for not ganking when they overextended without warding, I just tell them to play safer if they don't ward and that overextending is basically an invitation for ennemy jungle. If they start arguing I just ignore and concentrate on other lanes. Top player must understand that helping the mid or bot lane snowball has stronger chances of helping us win the game. Unless they play a top champ that can carry like Irelia.

NdleslyLargeAnus4 votes

I'm glad that people are finally talking about this out in the open. It's hilarious that this statement is even followed by several replies from other people who are, even further, criticizing his jungle skills, like as if this abuse is all still his fault somehow, as in it's justified abuse. One can't even address the fact that there's negativity aimed at junglers AS A CONCEPT without yet more harassment about their jungling. This more than proves his point that jungling is and has been for some time 'the dumping ground for blame'. It's true, and everyone who's jungled for a significant amount of games knows this.

I used to main jungle and I would win a lot more than I currently do, but I main support now instead due to the enormous amount of harassment associated with jungle. Junglers also without a doubt receive far more mostly invalid reports than other positions. But because of such sheer numbers of reports, it will bury your account even if you think you're really good at not responding to verbal abuse. The toxicity will bury your account over time. Even if you mute everyone in every game and say nothing - you will be reported for 'failure to communicate' 'unskilled' 'negative attitude' and 'helping the enemy'. There will be harassment in 1. pretty much every game that you lose and 2. sometimes you will actually win a game for the team but if someone in a lane somewhere feeds and has a bad game, they will still blame you and say that you're horrible just because they alone are having a bad game. In the end game score screen, it will say 'victory' and show stats that indicate a stomp, but this one guy will be the first to type something and he says 'garbage jungle'. I also routinely see people like this type essentially 'terrible jungle, it would've ended much sooner if you came to my lane. thanks for wasting everyone's time, you bronze noob.' Literally, this would be a situation where I helped bot snowball instead of wasting my time and resources helping a feeding top laner try to kill a fed super tank which probably wouldn't even prove successful anyway. And it's always a Riven, or a Fiora, or Tryndamere, or Teemo, sometimes that rare Nasus who thinks he can carry even though he has no Q stacks yet. It's literally always these people. And they're unreasonable, overly aggressive, they feed, they never know what counters them until it happens. And just playing jungle in those games will destroy your account because there's no way to control who you queue up with and according to these people - if you are jungle, it's always your fault.

So yes, jungle is the toilet of this game. The changes to jungle have added more complexity to the position that's already the most complicated. There's no other position where you're expected to win every lane for other people AND win all the major objectives at the same time - ALL while giving blue to your MID laner, giving red to your ADC and for the most part NOT receiving help if you happen to get in a counter jungle fight. This is all according to what I've heard people say junglers are supposed to do. The socially constructed 'expectations' for this position are unreasonable and at the very least the abuse needs to stop.

summoner 11

Riftasaurus Rex1 votes

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman. Bravo on this, if only everybody wasn't so hell bent on fixing problems by changing what others do and not what they do.

SteveBoss241 votes

This is so beautiful I'm on the verge of tears. Thank you, sir.

DoFr3 votes

jungle creeps no longer level up as the game progress.

if i gank, i lose alot of exp, because i could've been killing the creeps, so they can spawn, so they grant me more exp, but instead, we make the trip all the way to the lane so we gank, and when we do, by god you better start helping, because relaying on your jungler to do 90% of the work in the gank is just painful, especially when you're under leveled and gold starving.

i actually had to think of odd solutions like buy magus enchantment on nautilus so i can gank and bring more damage, so the laner CAN get a kill, and then i GET a LITTLE bit of gold assist and gold exp, and then i can Lane tax them some gold, and reduced exp, so i can go back to the jungle, and be forced to CLEAR ALL OF THE CREEPS, before i gank again, because the moment i do gank a second time without clearing creeps, they will give a whole lot LESS exp ad i will be underleveled, and i will not be able to serve the tank role iam supposed to be.

jesus man..

BlazinHot63 votes

The thing that has been killin me when jungling this season, has been the laners themselves. At top and bot lanes: I'll get to the bush, check/clear the wards. I ping before I come, when I get there, and then I ping (a third f**kin ping) on my intended target. Even when I land my cc on the enemy and an auto atk or 2, the laner is just getting there to help. I dont understand how they have no set up for, and arent already in motion to meet me in the middle. I have seen soo many ezpz kills get away from these laners, that no one with a sane mind would blame the jungler. Then they wonder why I dont try to gank for them again....

Sinlaire3 votes

And this post right here is why we have the Jungling Trinity. Everyone complains that we only ever see Lee J4 and Vi in every game because they can do everything a jungler needs to do more effectively. they can clear; faster, healthier, and gank better.

wanna guess why that makes them OP? Because those 3 values right there, are the reason why jungler who can play those 3 very well dont get blamed. They can survive the jungle long enough to roll through safer ganks than Diana and Evelynn can and farm more gold before backing. they dont level as slowly because of these two factors and aren't as poor. And playing these champs and not getting hated on all game can be more condusive to a better gaming experience regardless of if you're playing them for meta or because you thoroughly enjoy the champ.

Nearly every game I play jungle Vi i back with about 1k gold unless i took some hard gank damage. I start smite Gromp - wolves - baron crab - smite blue - Krugs - dragon crab - smite red - and if i don't gank, maybe raptors - krugs/wolves again. then back. on the other side i go smite Krugs - raptors - dragon crab - smite red - wolves - baron crab - smite blue - gromp - counterjungle/top gank - or go red side again for more raptors or krugs. don't forget the crabs can not only net vision for your top and bot for ganks from enemy jg, but also grant over 50 gold per kill and allow you to recharge your smite for buffs and clears while your health naturally regens. with a gank scored on this route can even net you about 1200-1400 gold on first back and if you play right, you can go back with another 1200-2000 gold on second back with good ganks and clears.

find me someone else that can do that other than those 3? you might find a few, but not as safely and the ability to do that is what keeps you from getting jungle flamed. Even if you know how to run a route like i just lisited, if a champ cant do it then you're gimping yourself and your team in a way by not running a champ who can. neither of which is your fault. it's just Rito balance. I haven't been flamed as a jungle in over a month. I've mained Vi for 6 months before she was OP and she is probably what i play in over half my games.

Being good in the jungle can really cut down a lot of that, but sometimes you have to play a champ Rito hasn't crushed with the nerf bat to make things go a little better.

DXDMordred3 votes

I hate how...

Your allies request your aid, you go to aid them, they stand behind you and wait for a perfect initiation.

If the perfect initiation happens, they engage in combat. If the perfect initiation doesn't happen, they don't engage, wander around, wait for the jungler to die, and then engage in combat, one at a time.

Every time I swear. It's disturbing how bad people can turn already poorly made decisions, into horrendous ones.

Ada Wong2 votes

Blame the jungle for your own mistakes of dying to a LeeSin or Nidalee if you die to such a jungler, or even Fiora I have to say in my opinion its really your fault, shouldn't have over extend so much, should have warded.

Yeah junglers can be to blame, but when you go and feed the enemy jungler yourself, don't ward properly then you start raging at your jungler for not doing so well, yeah its your own fault.

Team Compositions win games rather than just playing counters too but things that work better in team based fights.

Another thing to look at is why players go into champions like MasterYi or Fiora but no one on the team builds a item 3110 item 3143 and better yet why your supports never build a item 3001 in some situations it benefits your ap carry.

Llesh2 votes

Generalized statements are fun, but you understand how this can be viewed in more ways than one....

[{quoted}](name=Arch Mage Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=maMYGAhE,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-11T06:49:44.159+0000)

...Top dies because they have the enemy pushed right into their turret, no wards, and they get ganked; first thing "Jung where are you?!?!". Oh I'm sorry? Was I suppose to be a living animated ward to just sit in the bush and guard you? You tell bot you are coming to gank and suddenly they start pushing, wiping out whole minion waves and push the enemy back instead of playing cat and mouse. Ok....great, I made the trek down here for nothing; **you leave after sitting in a bush for 10 seconds and they get ganked 15 seconds later **"WOW jung wtf???"

**Enemy just took Dragon jung, no wards? Seriously? Yes seriously.... I am already under leveled, and have a fraction of the gold you have in lane, you really think I can afford that quick pink ward instead of an extra 2 health pots? **

Well, game is lost, Jung is too busy farming instead of helping. Again.... sorry but ya know..... I can't really gank that lane when you already gave them 3 kills and they are now 3 levels above me. I guess you want me to show up so they can 2 shot me as a meat shield and you MIGHT be able to somehow get a kill.

Jung has now become the dumping ground for blame since they are suppose to support every lane. Between Riots horrible jungle balance and design, coupled with toxic team-mates under the assumption they can never ever possibly make a mistake, jung is a report waiting to happen.

...Top dies because they have the enemy pushed right into their turret, no wards, and they get ganked

so top is pushed under the turret defending a 2v1 situation, cant leave the turret or it will go down from the enemy top and jungle..... ward was taken out by the jg with his sweeper, lucky your top saw this and ran to turret and is asking for your help so you can help push back the 2v1 situation, maybe counter gank...

You tell bot you are coming to gank and suddenly they start pushing, wiping out whole minion waves and push the enemy back instead of playing cat and mouse.

bot was doing well, they dropped the enemies adc hp to a 1/4 and were going for a kill after you pinged that you were coming bot... from top... after you recall, maybe a min latter if the situation doesnt change, like you go somewhere else to grank, or farm, or try to counter the jg taking your blue...

**you leave after sitting in a bush for 10 seconds and they get ganked 15 seconds later **

why are you sitting in bush for 10 sec if it is not a good ganking time?, did you search for wards, did you ask the bot if there were wards, do you know where the enemy jg is, getting ganked 15 sec after you leave sounds like a planned move by the enemy team

**Enemy just took Dragon jung, no wards? Seriously? Yes seriously.... I am already under leveled, and have a fraction of the gold you have in lane, you really think I can afford that quick pink ward instead of an extra 2 health pots? **

if you have less gold than the support (generally the one who wards dragon the most imo) there might be other issues there.... if it is just hapstance that it worked out like that, maybe ask your bot lane to ward it for you this time, you will get it next.... or there is that free trinket you can get...

**Jung is too busy farming instead of helping I can't really gank that lane when you already gave them 3 kills and they are now 3 levels above me. **

are you a farming jg? are you a late game monster who needs that farm and wont be ganking lanes.... did you explain this to your team, maybe they are not at your skill level and need to have this small but important fact explained to them about your champion, nothing wrong with helping people with relevant information... also did they "give up" those kills because the enemy jg was down in lane camping them while you were farming, maybe your time could have been better spent pushing another lane, or helping to gank someone else if you are a ganking champ

also communication with your team that you are under leveled and underfed might go a long way to giving you a helping hand... i think most people expect their jg to be doing well unless they are keeping track of them, and simply telling your team to be more defensive because you are not doing well can go a long way to preventing ganks..... you know, team game

so many ways of looking at the same general information, im sorry you had a bad game but there are a lot of people playing with you, a little bit of help from you maybe will make all of your playing experiences better.... but hey, im not a very good player myself, i just do it for the fun so maybe im wrong

slippykitten2 votes

Riot made the jungle infinitely more difficult than laning, allows players to take jungle from jungler when they are losing, and then does nothing when every game the jungler gets blamed. What do you expect will happen?

Orders2 votes

I main Jungle when I play normals. I usually try to gank every lane at least once in the early game but if I don't I am usually trying to get another lane more fed. I tend to camp lanes after I gank successfully.

If a laner loses their lane, the jungler is not to blame. Even if their jungler comes in and does a gank on you, you should have seen it beforehand if you have warded your area. Laners should buy enough wards to ward off the vulnerable spots in their lane. I see far too many people not buy wards and it ends up costing them their lives.

garRen 2 votes

i totaly agree. i especially hate when im trying junglers such as khazix, who got destroyed by the jungle and cant go through two camps without losing 90% of their hp and get blamed for not ganking at lvl 3 like the enmy lee sin or j4.

Gafugarion2 votes

You'd be suprised how much good the ignore button can do to make this game more fun and to keep yourself focused from the haters. Jungle requires practice just like any other role, you need to know when to be where, what lane is best to gank and what lanes are a loss even if you show up(so don't bother showing there.)

Gromble1 votes

Junglers deserve a whole lot of the blame. First off I hardly ever que up with someone not calling the jungle. If you call it then you should be atleast decent at it, Instead your a J4 who doesn't gank and is afk farming while then enemy jungle takes 3 drags and smashes the game. Its such a important role that if you don't at the least bat your weight then the team usually loses.

coffeerox5 votes

You can't blame the entire loss on a jungler. That's what this whole thread is about. Granted there are junglers (usually newbs) that don't come out to gank, however when you're talking about people that generally main jungle/jungle champs, then there are other circumstances that prevent them from ganking (if they're overextended, low on life, distance to target, overleveled, etc).

When they come out to gank, it's costing them Time/Exp/Gold just so they can help YOU out, b/c what you're saying at this point is, you lost your lane, can't handle your lane opponent and therefore you need help. If you need help, you're losing. What steps can you take to rectify as a laner, so that you can be self-sufficient and win lane on your own?

Regarding the dragon, yes, it's an objective of the junglers and jg does have to stay on top of it. No excuses there. There should be SOME support from bot lane though when the jungler initiates the fight, so they can help secure the gold for everyone.

Dryditch2 votes

No more gold on Dragon. It's now a buff that means more than gold.

lDontLiftIcarry1 votes

Low elo junglers watch a lane get ganked while they farm a camp.

High elo junglers dive another lanes turret and trade 1 for 1 across map or go for dragon.

Yes. thats how you should be playing every game. Think about it.

Riftasaurus Rex3 votes

If your getting buff and a lane is ganked it can put you behind for no reward to take the chance. When advantageous making a counter play is obviously the thing to do, but a opponent jg making a play is not a reason to rage at your jg.

lDontLiftIcarry1 votes

I'm just saying the difference in playstyles bro. One wins games. One makes you look like a derp jungler. I think i'd prefer winning the game. But hey.

not everyone can be a decent jungler or people would want to play the role more obviously.

Riftasaurus Rex3 votes

Regardless to blame your jg for their jg making a play is just playing the scapegoat card.

I do agree there are things to do when the other jg makes a play but the outcome of your opponent jg's play is not your fault solely.

Being decent at a role is not mutually exclusive to playing a role. Meaning I could be best at Jg but like adc the most. Its just flawed logic but meh unimportant.

unban swifty1 votes

Aye.

I've been maining jungle for a pretty long while now, but I stopped having fun with it. No, it stopped being fun. No matter who it is, if they lose lane because they aren't playing safe it's ALWAYS your fault. Doesn't matter what happened, it's all you because you didn't gank RIGHT when they wanted you to. I've gone back to midlane myself.. give your junglers a break people! (shits harder now)

L7xLoTek1 votes

Well, yes, and heaven forbid if you are babysitting bot-mid and keeping them in the game and slowly getting them fed. The toplaner has quite a few choice words they would like to share with you and your horrid performance that is of no use to anyone and is clearly losing you the entire game...

Doumz1 votes

Yes, junglers get all the things dumped on him. Probably the role that mute the more persons per game (could be cool to get a stat @Riot Lyte),

Because, you can't do the same thing the enemy jungler does, you normally aren't playing the same champion so you gotta take advantage of what your champ can do not what the other champ can do.

Also, some junglers prefer to farm the jungle than try to gank. It has been said, if you don't clear your jungle, it falls off, making it's exp/gold less worth. Wich makes messed ganks really bad for your farm and makes you behind in exp/gold. It can only comes with experience to know what's gankable and what's not, can't really blame your jungler for it, but if you explain to him gently how you want him to gank(route and wards to dodge) he may come for a gank.

The sentence I use the most as a jungler/support person is "Stfu and play the game". That may sound rude to someone but blaming me (or any other person) isn't gonna fix is problem, and if he wants to win the game I appreciate his input but I clearly indicate him after that if he doesn't stop I will just mute him.

As a jungler, I really like to ward for my fellow laners but everyone needs to pull his part. Because, if you ward, I can make it better, not make it all. Jungle is about pressure not "defending" your lane that's your job.

What I will do: Ok you're mid and ward a side, nice I'll ward the other! You're top you ward river, Good! I'll ward your tri-bush if I come. You're both lane and ward dragon/tri-bush. Excellent! I'll ward their buff next to your lane so you can invade with me the enemy jungle.

I personally jungle Sion atm, prob best clear, good support/tank(Probably the best tank in the jungle atm). only big weakness you can't kill turtles(river creep) easily. You will also bait the enemy top laner pick since Sion is mostly played top.

Xela Syab1 votes

Jung is pretty much roaming support, you do need to deploy vision, peel for carry, and set up ganks. You just get to farm too lol.

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