Why are players given separate MMR's for Normal and Ranked Queues?

HalcyonDweller··3 votes·623 views

I've found that frequently in Normals, high-skill players and low-skill players are getting matched against one another despite their difference in skill level.

I understand that this can sometimes happen because their Normals MMR must be close, but players ought to be getting matched with and against players of similar skill level to them regardless of which queue they are playing in. Players who play mostly one queue are going to be higher skill than the players they get matched with when they cross over to the other queue.

This is a huge problem because for the lower skill player, there's nothing fun about getting stomped into the ground by someone who is vastly superior to them. And for the high level player, if they're playing normals they don't need to be matched against weaker opponents to get a "break" from ranked, they already escaped the pressure of try-hard and LP gain/loss by playing the casual game mode where none of that matters. And if a player really wants a stomp-fest then they can already play "Coop Vs. AI" to fulfill that purpose.

Is this something that could potentially change in preseason? It would be a lot more fair to all players, and lower skill players especially wouldn't have to worry as much about having zero fun because of getting curb-stomped by opponents they should never have been matched with in the first place.

6 Comments

PresidentPeewee2 votes

I would like to make a correction. Your norms me should rise to your ranked mmr but your ranked mmr shouldn't rise to your norms.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

That's a good point! I understand your meaning, and I definitely think there could be a problem if it worked my way... However I think it might still work out anyway if that were to happen... and here's why:

If you are matched with higher MMR players, but your rank is lower, you gain more LP per win and lose less LP per loss. So you would actually climb faster assuming you're winning and losing about 50% which is what ought to happen if you're playing with and against people of similar MMR to you.

Mysticman891 votes

Moving up ranked mmr to match a higher normals MMR would result in a surge of players tryharding in normals to get an 'easy' risk free high mmr, and then playing a few ranked matches (where they're probably in over their head since their MMR was earned in a less competitive environment) with relatively low risk (since they'd lose very little LP, but gain a lot). Every now and then they'd manage to get lucky or otherwise get carried, and when they lose they'd just switch back to norms to fix up their MMR again. Repeat until diamond+ (or probably at least a full tier above your 'true' skill level).

Not only does this indrectly allow players to boost themselves in a sense, it's also going to be quite frustrating to those players' ranked teammates who now have to carry them or lose their own LP/mmr.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Oooh, that makes more sense!

Alright I rescind my stance, PresidentPeewee is right, it should only work one-way.

Mysticman891 votes

High skill players taking a 'break' from ranked are rarely going to be playing their main roles/champs, and so are generally going to be playing at a much lower effective elo. I can pretty confidently do support janna at a diamond+ level, but if I'm forced to jungle as pretty much anyone, it's realistically going to be a bronze-silver level performance, and I don't want to let down a team of diamond level players because matchmaking decided that I can play one champ in one role at one level that I can therefore play every champ in every role at that level. Many players are looking to expand their champion pools or try new (potentially less effective) builds in normals, and so will be performing well below their ranked mmr.

Even if that's not the case, normals mmr adapts just like ranked, so if high rank players are stomping at their current normals mmr, they'll quickly find themselves at an mmr where they are winning aorund 50% of the time. That might be lower than their ranked mmr (e.g. they play off-role or new champs), the same, or even higher (if they're tryharding on their main champ/role against players who aren't trying as hard or are on unfamiliar champs), but they'll get there pretty quickly if they're playing many games. If on the other hand they're not playing very many games, then it doesn't actually impact very many people, so changes to their matchmaking wouldn't actually solve the issue you're having.

Keep in mind that in normals theres no restrictions on who you can queue with, so when a diamond player wants to play with their bronze friend, theres pretty much certain to be a skill mismatch in the resulting match, and no amount of mmr fiddling is going to change that if the diamond player is still going to have diamond skill and the bronze player has bronze skill.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Damn, I see what you mean. I wish it were easier to fix. Games are far too one-sided these days. I usually either end up stomping or end up getting stomped. I wish there were more close games!

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