Can we give Mallet the Rylias treatment?

Dreadlocks·Mar 20, 2017·4 votes·909 views

currently 3100g, 40% slow 1.5s melee 30% ranged 700HP 30AD

new ??? 2500g, 30% slow 1s melee 20% ranged 500HP 25AD

could need some fine tuning but this should be a decent starting point....

Thoughts?

30 Comments

RalanrMar 20, 20172 votes

From 700 HP to 300?

That's insane.

DreadlocksMar 20, 20171 votes

The idea is to make the item strong for a class that already buys hp and res.. not for ppl to abuse it like yasuo and such.. again could use fine tuning but that's my reasoning for a suggested low hp. the slow remains strong

RalanrMar 20, 20172 votes

Thing is, if Yasuo builds it for the slow, then he's gonna keep building it for the slow.

NesdayitMar 20, 20171 votes

Explain why syndra isnt building rylais right now then

RalanrMar 20, 20172 votes

Because unlike Yasuo, Syndra can't constantly apply the slow.

Yasuo however gets enough attack speed that he can apply it before it ends and keeps doing that.

NesdayitMar 20, 20171 votes

Yes she can LOL

RalanrMar 20, 20172 votes

You also can't dodge auto attacks as much as you can skill shots.

NesdayitMar 20, 20171 votes

Yes, you can. Very easy to position yourself to not get auto attacked by a melee champion.

Just as easy as positioning yourself to not get hit by a syndra q

RalanrMar 20, 20171 votes

That's not what I mean by dodging.

Once you get into melee range, unless you're Jax, Shen, or Teemo then there is no way to actually avoid the attack in melee range.

What you're suggesting is not being in range to be hit in the first place. Even that is rather pointless considering just how mobile Yasuo is.

DreadlocksMar 20, 20171 votes

at the cost of more damage that should be fine. hence why he doesn't build it after the AD and HP nerfs... Right now it costs so much cuz it's among the most expensive [the most expensive? tanky items] in the game... if it was cheaper with weaker stats it could compliment the class it was intended for. Similar to Rylias.. it was buffed to 100ap, and during the mage update they buffed the hell out of the slow. before those buffs though, it was as popular as current mallet aka not very. even before the buff to 100ap it wasn't even that popular because it didn't give burst mages enough ap to justify building it.. but after it was buffed to 100, there was literally no downside to having it.

Mallet is not in the oppressive state that rylias was because it hasn't been massively buffed like rylias was... but we shouldn't have to put it in that state to call for a change.. like many other items in this game, they are nerfed and left in bad states because a lack of attention, i.e wits end, zekes, etc... Why not attend to mallet right now? Not saying the item is in the same awful states but being the counter part to rylias, it should be in the same gold cost category ...

chipndip1Mar 20, 20173 votes

Mallet is currently balanced though

NesdayitMar 20, 20172 votes

False. Mallet is kept in a unbalanced (UP) state, due to how OP the item would be if it had similar stats to its competition in a high price bracket.

chipndip1Mar 20, 20171 votes

It's kept in a niche state more than anything. You could pick it up if needed for the bulk, but many people go for tank items when they need bulk. When the tank update hits, armor/mr items are getting their raw resistances nerfed so that can channeled into champ base stats. At that point, more people will pick up health bulk items like Titanic, Warmog's, and Mallet.

TormentulaMar 20, 20172 votes

The different between rylais and mallet is everything doesn't build mallet.

Rylais was abusable on every single mage or AP fighter. Mallet is abusable on like, 2 champions (gnar, yasuo) and is a meta trend item for the others who build it (teemo, kindred). It doesn't need nerfs if its clearly not a good item on most builds.

Rylais gave too much damage + HP on a class which every single member could abuse, mallet is niche in only auto attackers can really abuse it and most tanky auto attackers either already have slows, mobility, CC, or would rather go iceborn gauntlet for sheen.

NesdayitMar 20, 20171 votes

No. Mallet is not built, because riot has artificially gutted the item due to how much it costs, and how much the item outclasses other items when it has comparable stats.

DreadlocksMar 20, 20171 votes

Did you forget the patch leading up to that though? They gave the item 100ap.. before they did that it was just as situational as mallet is now..

TormentulaMar 20, 20171 votes

Even before the AP buff it was still a pretty mandatory item that broke a lot of champions.

An item shouldn't give that much HP, that much AP, with such a strong utility passive. It needed to be reworked into either something defensive, offensive, or for utility, not all of them at once so its abusable in some fashion on anything that builds it.

A Vel Koz MainMar 20, 20171 votes

item 3812 nerf this too then

A Vel Koz MainMar 20, 20171 votes

Oh and these: item 3139 item 3156 item 3036 item 3046 item 3107 item 3071 item 3083 item 3142 item 3078 item 3147

Because they all give so much advantage over Mages with Rylais, if 25AP is really that troublesome to you guys then you have issues considering unless your team has downs, mages are the most countered/outplayed class there is.

Why you ask?

Lethality, Lifesteal, Survivability, Mobility, Health, AD on top of lifesteal and damage dealing. On top of that, only a handful of mages are good right now, why? Because they all received updates that made them broken when they used to be balanced, underplayed of course, but balanced.

TormentulaMar 20, 20171 votes

I don't see your point when not too many champions build that anymore and the only ones who do are Graves and Illaoi and situationally Riven , unless you're throwing it in a build as a niche item like for Kalista , or filler cause you can't think of anything else then its clearly not a broken item if its niche at best.

Even when a lot of champions built it, it wasn't a core item on any and was more of a filler if you needed healing + CDR on an assassin.

Rylai's had Cassiopeia Azir Elise Evelynn Anivia AurelionSol Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger Karthus Kennen Lissandra Malzahar Mordekaiser Morgana Nidalee Rumble Taliyah Teemo Velkoz Viktor Vladimir Zyra build it as core items.

While itemization centralization isn't a huge issue in some cases ( item 3165 ) its how strong the item is and how abusable it is on so many champions that it reduces their counter play.

NesdayitMar 21, 20171 votes

You left out literally everyone else who builds AP

DreadlocksMar 20, 20171 votes

it Def was abused on some champs, and to no surprise it hasn't changed, and at least more ppl can buy it..

LadyRenlyMar 20, 20171 votes

sure its weaker, but i dont wanna see mallet even easier to access.

Ultra Rapid FyreMar 20, 20171 votes

the reason rylais has a lower move speed reduction is because its triggered by RANGED abilities

Frozen mallet is almost NEVER taken by ranged champions unless they are morons

Its made for melee to help them stick to targets because theres too much mobility in league. Champions like lucian vayne quinn and tristana can already kite stupidly well, without mallet they would be dealing free damage to anyone without hard CC and kits that allow sticking to a target.

Mallet is fine

NesdayitMar 20, 20172 votes

No, No, and No.

Mallet is made to provide cc or disruption on auto attacks, as per riots official statement on the item. Quit projecting your perceived notions on the item as fact, when we have official statements from the creators of the item saying otherwise.

The issue with mallet is it costs too much, putting it in competition with items of similar price, which means the item cannot be allowed to be strong compared to those items, because then it becomes an instabuy. You dont want utility items to be on the same statline as non utility items. EX: Rylais, Steraks, Protobelt

DreadlocksMar 20, 20171 votes

this x100... all those items are cheap and they compliment well with higher ap items like lichbane death cap and such.. but no1 wants to buy a mallet for 3100g when u can buy a randuins for 2900 and have safer and better results... if it was 2500g u could buy other items to better compliment the item... but for 3100 ima pass unless I'm an abuse case like gnar.

Maximum MordeMar 20, 20171 votes

Shugi Shugi Shugi

Gnar

Elkington VIMar 20, 20171 votes

FM is already a meh item at best. Most of the champions that it would work the best on, immobile melees, don't even build it anymore.

RavenhaleMar 20, 20171 votes

What? Jarum's Fist has a passive that gives it 150 HP when fully stacked. It's meant to be 300 HP, which is why when it combines with Giant's Belt (380 HP) that it only gains 20HP for the 700 total we presently see.

Nobody should ever buy this item with your suggestion.

DreadlocksMar 20, 20171 votes

loool good point I'll fix