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We want Rengar changed/fixed, but we havn't given many structured posts on HOW. Lets start?

Dreadlocks··154 votes·4,204 views

I've been playing Rengar since season 4, Main'd him thru 5 and 6 and somewhat of 7 (not a fan of rework clearly) I have prob around 900k mastery on all my accounts w.him so I understand this champion pretty well.

Disclaimer: I do not wish to go into number details of spells, just the idea behind them. I do not have a way of testing them so I don't wish to argue about that part. JUST the concept/idea around it.

To start, lets go back to pre-rework.. Before he was a swimmer.~~~

Things I wish to address:

  1. Giving his identity back as a hunter
  2. Tune his old ult
  3. Make Rengar players have to consider the target they are hunting.
  4. Give Rengar a way out that appeals to his identity.
  5. Hopefully more, but this is what i have so far that i'm aiming to attack.

So again, reset to pre-rework and lets adjust some things.

  • Passive, old ferocity system, new bonetooth collection. (again numbers subject to change)

So his R is the main thing i wish to give my input on. I feel there are a number of ways we can approach it to give it more counter play without it being a sion ult. (Hey guys, i'm hunting you!!!! WATCH OUT) jokes.

IDEA 1. Upon ulting, lose all stacks but in exchange get increased MS and Vision on enemy. Indicator would hopefully be around 50% of what the EFFECT RADIUS: 2000 / 3000 / 4000, So if Rengar see's someone within 2000 Radius, then the enemy will know in 1000. (AGAIN, I DON'T WISH TO GET TOO MUCH INTO THE NUMBERS)

IDEA 2. Rengar Gives his target more warning based on the ferocity he has stored.. So if he has zero ferocity, he gives less warning. If he has full ferocity he basically tells them right away (kind of like live or my sion ult joke) The indicator could change colors given the amount of ferocity he has stored as well. So Dark Red when its full, Yellow when 50% and Green when empty. (clarity could need testing, again just the idea)

idea 2 further deets-

What this does is a few things: It gives enemy's being hunted a more clear indication as to what to expect, and also how to prepare. If he's full ferocity, you can quickly prepare to flash, use your dash, etc. If he isn't you might brace yourself to use your botrk and fight him. Just an example.

-Also, for the Rengar player himself, it would force him to be more strategical as to who he is hunting. If he is hunting a slippery target, it might be worth it to give them more warning to ensure you have that empowered E ready or you will likely miss the kill. Examples would be vs, Ezreal, Katarina, Lucian etc.. However, if you were vsing someone very fast or with a lot defensive tools, you might chose to have a lesser amount of ferocity. Examples would be vs, Sivir, she could spell shield your Q damage, out run your ult etc. Nocturne.. Singed, and a tricky one to catch: Kassadin, You could hold ur ferocity but he could R away and you'd never catch him, or you could be thinking you need it to hold him down.

-Whether or not having 2 stacks of ferocity or 5 stacks is better for Rengar, it gives the enemy a fair part of the Hunting game itself.

  • -Pertaining to both my ideas: After exiting camo, Rengar gains increased MS towards the target, OR brush.
  • -Brushes are Rengar's best friend, so his escape could easily be tied into it and it would really fit his identity.
  • -Probably remove the Ferocity Regen on ult.
  • -Make it so Rengar ONLY sees the closest target, and all other targets are Faded Red, (Possibly a similar effect to Rek'sai's burrowed Passive)

Some other ideas/changes:

  1. Change passive stacks to bonus lethality instead of bonus AD (makes him better at killing squishies but not killing everything)(AGAIN NUMBERS SUBJECT TO TESTING!!!)
  2. Exchange his W resistances for a Health shield (not my idea, i believe it was Blackbeards? but still a good one)
  3. Remove his ability to crit/apply on-hit effects with Q

Anyways guys, just some ideas, i loved old Rengar far more than the new one but i'm willing to admit there were balance issues with the one in the past, however this new one is far from perfect and it really didn't fix the outlining problem of Rengar. Which is his Ferocity and his Ult and more specifically using all 5 stacks with his ult with very little indication. Instead they gave him a Bruiser kit with Insane Numbers on release, so now he's a clunky diver.

Edit: Idea 3: remove camo completely but give him visuals and sounds to show he ultid, and he can still leap on his first auto. Youmuus level ms (could scale with rank) same ulti, just no camo!!=) -hell, running on all 4s could be a pretty easy way to show it, kind of like warwicks W.-

Edit 2: possible to add a bleed effect to rengars abilities, a large % is up front and the rest is delt as bleed over time. (Possibly with grevious wounds)

147 Comments

Zero Skill Tank34 votes

All this is meaningless. Every version of Thrill of the Hunt that even resembless the original will be cancer - no sane amount of warning will change the fact that Rengar forces enemies to permamently stay put under tower or tightly group instead of having any fun in League of Legends.

Riot tried their hardest to keep this cancer playstyle in the game for years, because so many people enjoyed it. They just gave up.

And you can't really blame them.

Dreadlocks6 votes

I mean, Talon has the same effect except he can just jump a fence after he murders you under turret.

Zero Skill Tank9 votes

No. Talon doesn't get to disappear from map for 20 seconds. You can ward against him much more effectively.

Dreadlocks9 votes

He also can not be revealed and doesnt tell the entire map HEY GUYS IN AN ASSASSIN AND IM ULTING.

Troll for Trump2 votes

But he's weaker earlier, and his leash is much more short range, while his stealth, as mentioned earlier, is much shorter in duration

PePsiLemoNN6 votes

But he's weaker earlier

He still is responsible for 25% of first bloods :^)

I had to :s

MsKatlyn5 votes

Rengar's ult is camoflauaged, meaning if he's in your jungle looking for some one to leap on, go fucking find him and cc him.

ITS

NOT

HARD

AT

ALL

I'm tired of all these delusional adc mains calling Rengar mains "toxic" we're simply enjoying a champion with the theme around a HUNTER, a hunter, hmm a hunter? What does that mean? He's fucking coming for your ass is what it means.

Besides, Rengar is really easy to kite if played right, and with his Q being a skillshot, a lot of Rengars miss it, you just gotta think proactive, and stop thinking negative it all the time.

Shinjusuke4 votes

Being a "main" and enjoying that he's fun doesn't change the garbage way every iteration has been designed.

People call him "cancer" for a goddamn reason and despite what Rengar mains repeatedly, delusionally, dogmatically tell themselves, it's not because they're "QQing ADC mains".

Shitting on people with absolutely zero counterplay is fun.

It is not, has never been, nor ever will be, good design or interesting gameplay for anyone except the ONE player out of the TEN in the game.

Get over it. You pick a champion with a cancerous, aggravating, borderline-no-skill playstyle with a massive snowball curve (unless the numbers are nerfed into oblivion) and it gets reworked. Because it's bad design.

It's why Kass and Talon lost their silence. It's why people hate Yasuo. It's why people hate Rengar.

Low-to-zero counterplay is FUN for the assholes who just enjoy ruining other people's play experience. News flash, winning is fun. That doesn't make it justified, and pretending otherwise is just clear, uninformed, blatant fanboyism.

The only way Rengar's gameplay fantasy gets to stay is if the massive problems with the core design get fixed, and thanks to people who try to write off every person pointing out the glaring issues as a "QQing ADC Main", that keeps not happening.

OP is trying to actually start a feedback discussion intended to go about doing this. If your "contribution" is that "durr if you think Rengar is a problem you're just a salty ADC durrr" all you're doing is shooting yourself in the foot, because Rengar isn't one of Riot's posterboys (Lee and Yas) so he's not immune to nerfs. They'll just dump him in the garbage and leave him there.

It's much better for all Rengar mains to suck it up and acknowledge the "Hunter" fantasy can exist in ways that DON'T involve instakilling people with no counterplay. Otherwise, his kit won't change into something enjoyable to play and tolerable to play against, it'll just get nerfed until he's unplayably bad. Just ask the Shaco players.

Mhihnj2 votes

People don't hate Yasuo because he is borderline no-skill. People hate him cause he is annoying af to play against.

MsKatlyn1 votes

I stopped reading your first paragraph because;

"Rengar was a negative win rate champion that was toxic to play against"

This quote RIGHT FUCKING HERE is what has triggered me into doing this really long as reply. Check the winrate of the players who are dedicated, not the average pleb. New Rengar has a higher skill floor and a higher skill ceiling. It is only natural that the new people will be fucked over. Think of it like a wild, orphaned Lion cub trying to learn how to hunt on his own. That is what is happening atm. Us experienced ones aren't doing our best to help the younglings. I am not doing my part anymore with the Guide, infact it's about to be deleted as I've already stated due to it being a passion project which I no longer have a passion for. mostly because of his one-shot which lacked counterplay.

All I've basically head from your paragraph is you complaining about "busted" champions and "Rengar has no counterplay" "I'm playing a cancerous, "takes no skill to play" "terrible design"

There shouldn't be a step backwards, there should be a step forward. Reinvent the kit, scrap everything and make a cohesive kit which expands the hunt on a multitude of levels. Promote ambushing, promote stalking, give him that Assassin niche of finding picks which others can, but make him only be able to have this pick potential if he is ahead. Do not give him the uppertunity to be reacting, make it so he has to think ahead and be proactive. Promote a Master hunter mindset. Learn from history, do not repeat it. Keep the core. Keep the leap. Keep the ferocity with a minor tweak or two. But for the love of god, do not repeat the same problems old Rengar had.

Did Riot do any of that? No, they made him more broken and unhealthy, then they basically gutted Rengar, he had spotlight in the start of Season 7, but now YOU RARELY see him.

The oneshot had counterplay but that was in champion select and in game. Quick reactions was needed. Moving in two was needed. Going on your own was suicide.

The counterplay however was always conditional. (Based on your own movement and Rengar's aswell for the reaction time but we'll go deeper into that later.) When the marksman season hit with preseason 6, Rengar tore heads off one after another due to the abundance of easy kills.

Season was 3 when this "1 shot" came to life. "But you needed to use 2 spells and one item before while midair!" Your W was useless in the damage, the only important ones was E and tiamat. Tiamat had a slight casttime while the old Bola before 6.2 had no cast time. And any fucking boosted monkey could learn that combo sequence. Even I could. That should say something. He hasn't gotten easier on the oneshot. He has always been that easy. And let me put it like this. Having a oneshot is OKAY. Having a oneshot is OKAY if it's conditional and not ALWAYS available. See it like ´needing to get the enemy into X or Y and then assblast them. That is perfectly fine. When it is always available on a X cooldown, then there is a problem. As long as the opponent can try SOMETHING to work against it, it is fine. See it like Poppy dealing tons of damage if she get's a wallslam. Or Gangplank if he get's his crit barrels onto you. Or Mordekaiser if he get's three Q's onto you.

I've been playing this champion ever since August 23, 2012, 2 days after his release, when his bola was a click shot and his jumps were buggy.

This champion requires skill, I have a 55% win rate 77 games 2:89 KDA with a 44 win rate champion in all elos. You think me leaping in will always guarantee a kill? Fuck no, you're delusional. I have to actually manage my leaps and time them in the early game, in my elo (Which is plat) You can't just leap in and expect a kill, you have to have perfect timing and right comboing. I'm trying to reason a solution with his design, not make what old issues he had.

Shinjusuke1 votes

You stop reading at the first paragraph, make a ragey reactionary post in defense of an obviously problematic champion, and then expect to be taken seriously?

No wonder Riot doesn't listen to Rengar players.

Alpha D Glucose2 votes

why shouldn rengar be rewarded for the fact that he is fed??? Do u want to outplay him as a 0/9 cait? Pls dont tell me that a fed assassin should need more than a sec to kill u( btw zed does that too or talon)

Shinjusuke1 votes

You fundamentally and wholly misunderstand the idea of counter-play.

Furthermore, you misunderstand the actual problem. Rengar doesn't just instagib people while he's 20/0 and they're 0/9. He does it when he's not fed, he does it when he's only a little fed, he does it when both he and his target (assuming they're anything but a tank) are fed, etc. He does it way too often.

Additionally, thank you for exactly proving my point and being the exact type of player that I'm calling out for being a fanboy moron that's actively hurting the champion by saying "durr you must be a salty ADC main" and immediately claiming that "a 0/9 cait shouldn't outplay him", and on top of this trying to strawman all assassins because yours is problematic.

Please, inform yourself, or don't pollute potentially beneficial discussion with barely-thought-out kneejerk reactionary defensive behaviour.

Alpha D Glucose1 votes

My friend, the fact that u believe that an assassin has to be super fed to kill someone shows how desperate u are trying to prevent riot from touching rengar LOL. And since u are so well informed tell me why tanks can oneshot an adc without being fed or building dmg but when an assassin does that its the end of the world?? hello?? are we playing the same game???

And the fact that u are g5 just makes me wanna cry that riot could potentionally listen to someone like u who is a multiseason hardstuck gold player : ) with no clue about how this game works. And if u would be such a super brain and would know how to balance everything and counter everything tell me why are u still low elo? :))))))

Have a nice day kiddo

Shinjusuke1 votes

Jesus christ mouthbreather.

Let me clear some stuff up for you.

  1. If you actually used your brain cells you'd see I hit g5 every season and stop immediately. I just want the victorious skin, I don't give a shit about ranked.

  2. If a tank oneshots an ADC, it's a balance problem. They're not "allowed" to, there's 150 champions. That's a lot of things to balance. You're grossly blowing numbers out of proportion. No fucking tank oneshots anyone "without being fed or building damage". Not a single one. Your hyberbole just makes you look like a whiney idiot.

  3. Assuming you're higher than g5 (since "people" like you need to rely on "durr hurr muh rank" cuz they know they don't actually have a valid point to make), and assuming you hit that on Rengar, I'm not sure why you'd even bother bringing it up. That's like bringing a bazooka to a squirtgun battle and bragging about winning.

Seriously, don't reproduce, and please stay off the boards. You're making the whole community look retarded by subjecting us to your mindlessly ignorant, blatantly fanboy verbal diarrhea. Not to mention wasting perfectly good resources as a human being that could be going to people with vastly more potential.

jaycer9715 votes

And what's about twitch? You have no vision on him during team fight, and then he suddenly appears says Hi and murders your whole team. Is that somewhat balanced? All rengar can do is murder one carry for the price of his life. Twitch can murder 5 people instantly, without a single warning.

Troll for Trump3 votes

Or Eve. Actually, all stealth champs in general share that "cancerous" trait.

Rengar's is just more long-term, fitting the "camouflage" thing Riot established.

The Great Divide1 votes

I honestly think it was the changes to how quickly he stealths, and his w.

Now that his stealth goes after 1.5 seconds it's much easier to enter, meaning there is less thought. It also lasts much longer, so there's much less risk in using it in that regard as well. This makes optimizing it's usage much more easy and reliable whereas before it had to be pulled off in much tighter windows.

His w is now a zoning tool, as it now can apply 4 stacks, and makes laning easier, as it gives more waveclear than he had previously, as well as an actual lasting zone of control. And honestly, for how good twitch's late game is, giving him any kind of early game power was not a good idea. (His early used to be reaaaallly bad).

W, I think should be reverted. On the topic of his Q, I don't know how it should be changed, because now it's camouflage, not the true stealth it was before. So it is weaker stealth before the stealth rework. But as of right now, there's not enough disadvantage to misusing Q.

He wasn't always like this - changes have led him to have an easier time doing the kill the whole team thing. (At one point you had to work for his "Surprise, I was hiding" mow 'em down fantasy).

Alpha D Glucose2 votes

if u int an assassin he should be able to kill u anywhere, either u stay with your team and dont split as an adc or u FUCKING start to build against him

Shablagoo7 votes

Why not make his ult a have stealth but be a lung, he can miss it like WW ult but they still have the indicator on them if they are hunted. Or keep the portrait at the bottom and if he ults he has to click and choose one when he ults he is invisble to everyone but the hunted and can lung to that person. Or just in general make his ult something that can be missed. Also give him a proper assassin escape, I think in general Rengar mains( me mostly) want him to be an assassin more then anything.

Dreadlocks2 votes

You bring up good points. What if Rengars ult was a skillshot? How would that affect his other abilities when jumping? Would all his spells just miss? As far as an escape the best I can come up with right now is ms related to a brush. Or perhaps a mini khazix ult that lets him get brief stealth in the brush once after ulting and within x seconds. Again these are just ideas flowing. The more ideas we share the better we can present a good one to riot. Thanks for sharing your comment. Ill def think about this.

Mogarl4 votes

Here's half an idea. Leave his ult the same as it currently is but remove the auto crit and add a new mechanic instead.

The new mechanic would involve a more stalkery "watching for weaknesses" Rengar scans his closest target for weaknesses and at X stacks gained at 1 per Y seconds gains % armor pen, flat armor pen, or % increased damage. (Don't know which but something along those lines.) If Rengar is still out of vision while close enough that he'd be seen through his camouflage the rate he gains stacks is doubled, tripled, Xupled whichever feels good.

I've never really played Rengar, but I think that this at least seems like it would still be as fun as his current ult, but with more suspense. It also makes sure that Rengar's best option will never be "Jump onto their carry the moment the exclamation point is over their head"

Dreadlocks2 votes

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I appreciate a non rengar engaging in this kind of issue with an open mind

I hope I dont offend u by saying I think this would still feel very unfair for the enemy. My suggestions are more aimed at being fair on both ends rather than making rengar broken and banned 24/7 ...

The idea that my 2nd proposes gives opponents an idea as to what to expect when he jumps on u, and in some cases how far away he is given when the indicator will show.

I really want it to be as fair as possible while still holding true to his theme/identity.

But again, thank u for being a good sport. Ur ideas are welcome with me.

Aptest3 votes

Here is my opinion:

The first thing that rengar needs is mobility outside of his R. Without an additional on-demand mobility skill, rengar can not outplay and this means he has to be balanced around being able to kill with his first jump. Whether this is done immediately or with some delay is a question ofcourse.

In keeping with Rengar's theme, I suggest adding a 5th skill to rengar, to be added to his R whenever this is on CD. I propose a ground targeted dash that can only work into bushes. Following this dash, Rengar's passive jump's range is extended, based on bonetooth necklace.

MsKatlyn2 votes

Just stop, these posts are pointless? Why? Because Riot is not gonna revert this change.

Even Riot said them selves they want to put Rengar in a bruiser state, they don't want him "1 shotting" people because he can do it in a small time frame.

Rengar is a difficult champion to balance, therefore; meaning he can be broken or useless.

This rework is useless, Rengar doesn't have enough tools to continue the hunt, his q has been gutted and his R is just retarded. Riot needs to do something fast or this champion is dead, I have such a blast with Rengar too, especially with the old one. I have clips of me screaming because I 1 shotted someone, whats the fun into this new one? W'ing out of a team fight-? Thats about it tbh.

Yes I admit Riot, you get an A+ for making his leap range increase at lvl 1, but reworking his passive and changing his ult to "CAMO" fucked this champion.

Riot didn't kill this champion, the community did. It seems like the community and Riot just threw pieces of a shitter version of Renekton to make this rework.

Stop taking steps forward, how about we take a step backwards and fix what us Rengar mains have been bitching about, this new kit and the clunkiness.

I've said it before, and I'll be proud to say it again, scrap the entire kit, make a whole completely new design, (leaving the theme obviously) and ACTUALLY put effort into him, for once please.

I miss this champion, he's still playable but in my honest opinion its just not fun anymore.

Dreadlocks5 votes

If people gave up as easily as you, America would still have slaves.

Kurogami2 votes

I posted this on a separate thread, but I'll copy/paste it here. In all honesty, what's worse than the actual rework itself is the fact that Riot has chosen to stay completely silent on the matter while they simply mete out nerf after nerf, which led to his current state... Not viable anymore. We had a Rioter in the Rengarmains subreddit, xShepherd like you quoted, and, uh.. Yeah, it didn't go anywhere. Riot needs to eat their own words with this one. Remember the whole double jungle Singed support thing awhile back? A Red stated "there is a difference between communicating WITH someone, and communicating AT them". That's more or less what happened with the Rioter that we DID get... He answered only what he wanted to, and may as well have been a brick wall when it came to ACTUAL discussions on how to balance/restore the identity of the Knifecat. I'm being harsh here because Riot damn well deserves it. They've been COMPLETELY silent as of late on the matter of Rengar, besides a simple "We think he's in a balanced state right now." Hey, fuck all of you, no one else does. The owners of the single most popular game in the world don't get to be selectively, conveniently deaf like that. The ENTIRE Rengar community has been saying SINCE THE RELEASE OF THE REWORK that it's not the same champion anymore. He went from an auto-attack reliant assassin with a nasty stealth mechanic to a clunky bruiser/diver. Isn't that supposed to be one of the things that reworks preserve? The IDENTITY of the bloody champion? Guess not. At this point, I don't even CARE if we get a revert, I just want Riot to admit they fucked up with this rework. But seeing how they've been acting with the whole "Rengar topic" in general, I'd say that's less likely than Trump selling all of his assets and donating the money to an African charity. Don't even get me STARTED on the controversies their shitty balancing team put together for the rework. And for all of you out there who say "YOU JUST WANT BUSTED RENGAR BACK, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO BUY PINKS CUZ I'M A SHITTY ADC MAIN, WAAAAAH MOMMY"- That is NOT what we want. We want the champion we had before this rework, regardless of how much damage he does or doesn't do, not this absolute fucking mess of a half finished champion.

I respect what you're trying to do here, (I loved Rengar) but Riot has a way of maintaining radio silence and ignoring what the playerbase has to say about the game. Pre-rework rengar was far easier to balance (irony at it's finest), but Riot has absolutely 0 intention of listening. In all honesty, it's seriously fucking pathetic. Love the game, hate the company behind it.

Balance-wise... We all want the old Q back. All Riot really has to do is remove it's ability to crit, and I think it'd be fine. Tweak the W, if not fully reverting it, bola is the bola, and his R is now camo-which means no one can complain about him jumping out of COMPLETE stealth and tearing your face apart.

@TheThrillOfHunt already posted his balance ideas, and those are generally what I happen to agree with.

Dreadlocks2 votes

Yeah, ive this before but i think riot made the rework harder than it needed to be. What i mean is, he didn't really need a new kit, just adjustments. (kind of like rek'sai) And i also agree in terms of being an assassin, the old kit is way closer and easier to balance. This new 1 is just a nightmare for anyone on the balance team im sure.

I know it feels hopeless, and maybe i get nowhere with this.. But this is something I really care about, so if nothing gets done, ill feel better knowing i gave it my all.

Kurogami1 votes

Yep. What really needed tuning was the previous iteration of Rengar's R. Something we got with the introduction of Camouflage. Besides that, he didn't really need all that many changes to retain a healthy playtime. They way it was, or the way it seemed to me, at least, was that the old Rango wasn't really even all that viable, nor played very often- he just had a small-mid sized playerbase that was extremely dedicated to him as a champion.

Like I said, I wholeheartedly respect and commend what you're trying to do here. I've been bottling up a lot of rage with the Rengar rework, so sorry if I came off as somewhat aggro in my response.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Believe me, I aint happy abt it either.

Salson1 votes

I'm starting to think a jungler can never go full damage and be healthy, I don't mind being proven wrong though. At least I know where Zed and Talon are.

And the camo is nessesary now that ping wards were removed.

Dreadlocks2 votes

I know what you mean.. It is pretty hard. We still have khazix though. And he can go from river brush to the middle of the lane (thinking bot side specifically) in stealth! I just think part of the reason ppl cant stand rengar is the unknowing like u said. So with my 2nd idea you know as soon as the indicator shows how much ferocity he has so u can gauge whether or not u can fight him straight up or how to avoid getting nuked/snared. So ashe players for example will have time to prepare her arrow lucian can fast and botrk to kite ezreal can E right away or hold it for when rengar has the ferocity to snare then dodge it then etc.. But right now and before, alls the player knows is Rengar is coming, but how prepared? That is all unknown. And if he still comes with full ferocity u will have A LOT more time to hall ass or find an ally. And to me that is very fair for both players.

Salson3 votes

The way I see it Rengar mains want to feel like hunters. But NO ONE wants to feel like a pray. XD

Oh well good luck, I hope Rito can somehow make Rengo heathly.

chipndip11 votes

You guys that constantly ask for reverts on Rengar, do you HONESTLY think the community will be "all fine and dandy" with a character that's notorious for killing people out of stealth from full health faster than a human can believably react? The whole point of the rework was so that Rengar wouldn't just nab a few kills early and proceed to kill people with resets in the span of half a second, from jump point to land point. If you HONESTLY think that was fun and engaging for us that had to deal with that, then you're crazy, and if you think that type of game play is ideal for ANY champ, then you're a special kind of crazy.

Edit: This isn't aimed at the op, though, since it's focused on his ult, but for the guys down below.

TheThrillOfHunt2 votes

We don't ask for a full revert. His ult was the problem, not his burst. And honestly, even with his old ult it was quite easy to dodge his full combo. You just had to be a little bit focused.

But ofc, glasscanon adcs hadn't much ways to escape. But which adc builds glasscanon now ? With the high popularity of ninja tabis, death dance and the new GA, i actually don't see any issues.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

We don't ask for a full revert. His ult was the problem, not his burst. And honestly, even with his old ult it was quite easy to dodge his full combo. You just had to be a little bit focused.

The sheer amount of blind bias actually hurts to read.

TheThrillOfHunt2 votes

Explain ?

For the reaction time, everytime i would face a Rengar and i was any kind of supp, midlaner, adc or toplaner, i would cancel Rengar's jump/activate zonhyas/flash out before Rengar even landed on me.

And if i was ADC, i would not go alone on a sidelane, which many of adcs do, buy a GA because ofc a glasscanon ADC can't do shit against any kind of assassin if he has his summs down. I would also stick with my supp, as simple as that.

Honestly, all of what i'm saying is about not being retarded.

chipndip11 votes

"Rengar's issue wasn't the fact that he was notorious for killing people out of stealth in .5 seconds or less. It was his ult that gave warning that he was nearby, ready to 1 shot you within the span of a single jumping animation. This is balanced. Me being 100% in control of the situation with no way out for you in the slightest because no one can even tell where I'm coming from until it's too late, or react after I show up, is entirely fair."

It's a strawman, but this is kinda how it was before Riot hit him in the knees in preparation for the rework. Bursting people with no time to react out of stealth while you get a movement speed boost isn't what I'd call healthy game play. Be less of a Rengar main to look at it from the other side.

TheThrillOfHunt1 votes

That's what i'm saying, his burst wasn't the problem, his ult was the think that didn't allow any kind of counterplay for squishy glasscanon targets

chipndip11 votes

His burst was still a problem, and even if you give more warning (don't see how), the fact that he still instantly blows you up within the time span of a single leaping animation which is almost instantly completed is fucking bonkers. No one likes that, and no one wants a revert to that.

TheThrillOfHunt1 votes

Rengar still does that, and even worse than before so whatever

chipndip11 votes

You don't have a good memory of old Rengar, then. Also, this is a month old.

Mister Support1 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/isJaeIa4-we-shouldnt-just-revert-rengar

Too lazy to retype.

Dreadlocks2 votes

Can u check my idea 3 out. Read the post and I think ppl just hate the camo/stealth.. Also a better stacking mech could be ms but then rengar only has 3 abilities that do damage so he will probably be rly weak or overloaded on the Q again. Not sure.

Mister Support2 votes

Yeah I saw it, I just personally enjoy the camo and would hate to see it go away since protecting someone would basically just mean be well warded (something that would essentially mean he's better in low elo vs high elo). But...hmmm....

Here's an idea for his ultimate. What if the ult was a 2-stage selection where the first press of R would bring up a Kindred-style selection screen to choose your target. You go invisible to enemies except your target after selecting them, to selected enemy you are camo. And move the trophy system over to his ultimate and have it be tied to who he marks with his ultimate. This way the method of choosing your target is far more about "is this the best person to go for right now? Or can I just choose for who I need stacks from?"

If it's possible to code and not be buggy as hell, have the camo radius slightly increased for better warning and then give other enemies vision of rengar when the target ally sees him.

This "new" version of his ult would truly make it feel like a hunt all while forcing Rengar players choose more carefully who they are hunting based on who is best for the fight coming up or if they want the stacks.

Dreadlocks2 votes

My only issue is what if spur off the moment, u wana ult? U have to go through all that first? Maybe tie that part to gis passive so it's ready when he ults?

Mister Support1 votes

That would work too! Could also be that if you aren't planning enough then the punishment would be you get no one to get a trophy from for that ult use. Each one I could see working out just fine.

Dreadlocks2 votes

Yeah same is for kindreds marking system.

DoktorKaiser1 votes

Imo there are 2 things that make Rengar a toxic champion:

  • his ultimate in any way, shape or form it has ever had
  • his infinite bush jumping with no cooldown which make him extremely frustrating to fight when he is laning
TheThrillOfHunt2 votes

That's why his ult was changed, and about the bush leaps, it has the cd of his attack speed. But the main problem is that the range has been set to 725 at lvl 1, but before, it was 600, and you would gain the 125 extra range with the bonetooth necklace rewards. Check my revert ideas and tell me what you think about it :p

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