I really like the counterpick PBE changes

Moody P·Jul 4, 2019·9 votes·4,084 views

Its long past due that things that can dramatically affect draft consideration and who to pick or ban start getting added to the game again.

I don't know if I would have added it to Renekton when he's quite fine as he is right now, but otherwise I'm very excited that this becomes a possible focal point for the season, adding fresh niches to underplayed champions or doubling down on them like Poppy is getting is a refreshing change and I'll be happy to get to extend my champion pool again now that they have actual reasons to be picked.

Hope we get even wilder changes for more champions because frankly I don't think Riot has gone far enough.

29 Comments

NyarlathοtepJul 4, 20197 votes

I dont understand, do people want lol to turn into League of Counterpicks? You know, the shit where you are basically screwed if you are first pick.

RavenMagusJul 4, 20193 votes

Maybe they liked dota auto chess so much they want the rest of the game to be more dota too.

D357R0Y3RJul 4, 20195 votes

Darius "Do I play against tanks or not"

nice design

Soul DealerJul 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

"Do I play against tanks or not"

nice design

Darius is poorly designed but riot doesn’t care because people love to watch him in the lc$

D357R0Y3RJul 4, 20196 votes

who the fuck picks Darius in LCS? OMEGALUL

I doubt anyone would pick him top and then enjoy losing against karma/ryze/neeko

Critmaster GarenJul 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

"Do I play against tanks or not"

nice design

lmao. if youre losing early on against darius on most tanks, then you misplayed.

most of them have abilities to play around him. do they get outscaled by him? fuck yes, thats how its supposed to be. its the tradeoff for the teamfight impact and the roaming potential that tanks have.

but shen can win against darius by playing around his dodge zone to negate his w and auto attacks, and he can use his dash to work around darius q.

maokai can do the same by using his w and q properly.

they generally have tools to come out on top in trades against him for the first couple of levels. its just hard not to make mistakes.

ZardoJul 4, 20191 votes

its the tradeoff for the teamfight impact and the roaming potential that tanks have

You realize you kind of have to be winning lane to roam without losing too much? That's not exactly something I can do as poppy into darius. I can cry, but that's pretty much it. Poppy gets outscaled by most juggernauts and can win early if she plays right, but darius is not one of those juggernauts, he just wins by default at level 1.

Critmaster GarenJul 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You realize you kind of have to be winning lane to roam without losing too much? That's not exactly something I can do as poppy into darius. I can cry, but that's pretty much it. Poppy gets outscaled by most juggernauts and can win early if she plays right, but darius is not one of those juggernauts, he just wins by default at level 1.

poppy is a different case. shes a better pick against mobile skirmishers and divers like riven, jax, fiora, irelia etc.

she wins against them, so her losing against juggers is fine.

she works against illaoi btw. since she stops her w. so illaoi cant use one of her most important abilities.

ZardoJul 5, 20191 votes

She works against most juggernauts if played correctly.

JackMcCarryJul 4, 20194 votes

Dont you toplaners always cry about how the lane is all about counter picks? Now it's a good thing?

Unusual midlanerJul 4, 20199 votes

We top laners do cry about counter picks for good reason. I’m not sure what OP is smoking.

Abibyama IIJul 4, 20192 votes

There's soft counters where you get countered but you can beat it.

And there's counters where you can't do anything about it.

Riot is going the soft counters route.

Moody PJul 4, 20192 votes

These thing can't be explained to irrational boards posters, don't bother

Abibyama IIJul 4, 20191 votes

Yeah I'll just let them be.

JackMcCarryJul 4, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHwcYiaO,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-07-04T19:41:00.715+0000)

There's soft counters where you get countered but you can beat it.

And there's counters where you can't do anything about it.

Riot is going the soft counters route.

deleting shields is now a soft counter.

Ok.

But hol' on if you say QSS doesnt counter morde, it makes him useless according to the boards.

Abibyama IIJul 4, 20191 votes

Yeah.

Poppy grounding mobile champion is a soft counters because the W is like 24 seconds cooldown.

Renekton W deleting shields is an empowered W which requires Fury which means Renekton has to auto attack and use abilities, and it's on 13 seconds cooldown. So yes it is a soft counter

I don't know, I don't think this will change very much to begin and everyone is overreacting, this feels like Tahm Kench all over again.

It only make him better against champions with sheilds. It won't do shit to range champions or Jax and Darius

But hol' on if you say QSS doesnt counter morde, it makes him useless according to the boards

JackMcCarryJul 4, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHwcYiaO,comment-id=0002000100010000,timestamp=2019-07-04T20:53:19.274+0000)

It only make him better against champions with sheilds. It won't do shit to range champions or Jax and Darius

yea, because they dont have shields? they arent the target of the counter? what does that have to do with anything?

Renekton W deleting shields is an empowered W which requires Fury which means Renekton has to auto attack and use abilities, and it's on 13 seconds cooldown. So yes it is a soft counter

Renekton's entire combo revolves around him going in with empowered e then empowered W, you're talking like they put the shield breaking ability on his empowered E making it a niche use and trade off of either damage or utility (shield breaking). Loading it onto his W only makes it more of a "duh" ability to pop off your combo with.

Poppy grounding mobile champion is a soft counters because the W is like 24 seconds cooldown.

Again, like renekton, Poppy W will now just fuck you over for so much longer than before when she goes in on you, it already did it's job before,it already IS a soft counter, it stopped a single mobility spell, now along with her stun, she block your mobility AND grounds + slows you for 2 seconds, thats not soft, just because level 1 W is 24 sec CD doesnt mean it's a soft counter, because poppy controls when she can engage or peel with her W.

Abibyama IIJul 4, 20191 votes

yea, because they dont have shields? they arent the target of the counter? what does that have to do with anything?

...

I don't know, I don't think this will change very much to begin and everyone is overreacting, this feels like Tahm Kench all over again. It only make him better against champions with sheilds. It won't do shit to range champions or Jax and Darius

As in "OMG he will be OP top tier"

Either way, they could put it on e because it makes more sense there.

Again, like renekton, Poppy W will now just fuck you over for so much longer than before when she goes in on you, it already did it's job before,it already IS a soft counter, it stopped a single mobility spell, now along with her stun, she block your mobility AND grounds + slows you for 2 seconds, thats not soft, just because level 1 W is 24 sec CD doesnt mean it's a soft counter, because poppy controls when she can engage or peel with her W.

Still a soft counter

Unusual midlanerJul 4, 20194 votes

These things can’t be explained to irrational boards posters, don’t bother

boricCentaur1Jul 4, 20193 votes

Toplaners only complain about them because they just want a reason to how they why lost since instead of what could of have done better and also toplaners ONLY WANT TO PLAY FEW CHAMPIONS having counters makes them learn other champions.

Counter picks make it so you can't randomly pick a champion you have to think and it encourages team work. There are no downsides to having counter picks.

ZardoJul 4, 20192 votes

also toplaners ONLY WANT TO PLAY FEW CHAMPIONS having counters makes them learn other champions.

I mean considering that most people recommend only playing like 2-3 champions in any role that's kind of a stupid thing to say.

Counter picks make it so you can't randomly pick a champion you have to think and it encourages team work.

Yeah, big brain thinking like checking op.gg, going to the counters tab, and then looking at winrates.

There are no downsides to having counter picks.

Oh yeah there are.

Players have an inherent advantage because they rng'd and got to pick after their opponent
Junglers have to play a bigger role in the lane
Teammates have to be more aware- Better lane counters = more lane prio = more roaming

I'm not even saying that these changes are that bad, i'm just saying that the whole concept of counterpicks being this 100% good thing for the game isn't true.

TobykachuJul 4, 20193 votes

Hard counters in League of Legends is inherently toxic given the length of a typical game. Being unable to play the game because your opponent had the ability to lock in a counter in champ select, forcing you into 30 minutes of misery never feels like a good idea.

GayFluffyUnicornJul 5, 20192 votes

The problem the actual problem why counterpicks are so insane in league lies in riots design the past few years making league an arcade CoD moba.

There are no distinctive game phases anymore or actual strong points of champs in the game.

What does it fuckin matter that i can play safe on jax against kennen and EVENTUALLY outscale him when the game is lost at that point? He will have tp'd bot or roamed mid into a fight and won the game in 10-15 minutes of the game while he starved me off cs and fed himself on klepto and platings.

If the game would be actually reasonable then having counters wouldn't be so bad but since laning phase is so insanely important now due to all the snowball in the game getting counterpicked is miserable. The actual state of the game is so shit, so r%%%%%ed and so miserable it's insane. Baron still being the only win condition. Drakes especially earth and infernal being so overpowered. Turret plating that must be one of the worst additions riot have ever made to the game. Catch up xp is still terrible for the game. The jungle is a mess. ADCs and especially mages being good at every stage of the game now.

So in other words, counters would actually be BETTER IF the game would go LONGER. Would be a dream if games were open until 20-30 minutes. Instead they decide in like 10 mins. Mentioning turret plating another reason why its so bad is in bad matchups it actually locks you into the lane because if you roam and don't get at MINIMUM a kill you actually just lost the "trade". Your laner now got two waves and two plates advantage. So you most likely need two kills to make up for it. Turret plating is so bad for the game and one of the reasons why games feel so impactless because you can either not afford to roam because your enemy gets "rewarded" for being bad at the game OR you got into a shit matchup and now your enemy gets free gold FOR BEATING YOU while being able to roam himself.

Moody PJul 5, 20191 votes

None of these changes make hard counters

TobykachuJul 5, 20191 votes

Renekton is already a very strong champion against a lot of other champions. If you now rely on a shield, then he is almost guaranteed to win lane no matter how well you play.

njrk97Jul 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Renekton is already a very strong champion against a lot of other champions. If you now rely on a shield, then he is almost guaranteed to win lane no matter how well you play.

Plus you know the fact that maybe, instead of overloading Renekton with a new gimmick to deal with Tahm, they maybe, actually address the issue that NO ON WANTED TAHM TOP and that maybe just maybe they look into the fact that Resistance and Tanking is in such a bad spot, that you literally need a second health bar just to work as a tank. The Amount of gymnastics Riot is doing to avoid the underlying issues of league currently is frankly impressive.

I miss when Tanks actually tanked, Bruisers Fought and were a bit tanky and fighters were more squishy. I miss Champions having defined classes, its not just a top issue either, you get the same crap with stuff like Pyke who just has cc and sustain thrown onto him despite his status as being a assassin ''''''''''''support''''''''''' and the inherent problem with giving a executing diving assassin a huge amount of CC control.

I swear it all started when they started to shorten game lengths and added runes reforged, at that point the wheels just fell off the godamm wagon and everything turned into this snowball.

Moody PJul 5, 20191 votes

That's still not a hard counter. It just means you have to expect that Renekton will win lane harder vs you if you have a shield.

I don't think league has ever had real hard counter lane

AlterMordredJul 4, 20192 votes

How the fuck is counterpicking a good thing what you on about