So on PBE its losing 20 AD 55 to 35.. fine great, but do you think this is going to discourage tank builds on assassins? I'm not refering to just the Zed build that was used in the LCS because i've been doing tank titanic builds on Rengar long before it was used on Zed in the LCS.
To me its an issue, just wondering if you guys feel the same :S
RiotMeddler8 votesTitanic's too strong, which is resulting in it being more effective both on its intended primary users (fighters who are building some other health items) and non primary users (assassins and 'light fighters' like Fiora etc). We're nerfing its AD as a result, looking to concentrate its power more into the health scaling damage and active, which also preserves its distinctiveness versus other items.
Variks the Loyal3 votesTitanic's too strong, which is resulting in it being more effective both on its intended primary users (fighters who are building some other health items) and non primary users (assassins and 'light fighters' like Fiora etc). We're nerfing its AD as a result, looking to concentrate its power more into the health scaling damage and active, which also preserves its distinctiveness versus other items.
Will you be buffing the scaling of the on-hit damage, then, to make it more effective on hp-centric builds?
RiotMeddler3 votesNot at the moment at least, right now it's both got power distributed in the wrong way and is just too strong. If we put power into its offensive side in the future though the on-hit or the active would be the places to do that though certainly.
Variks the Loyal1 votesNot at the moment at least, right now it's both got power distributed in the wrong way and is just too strong. If we put power into its offensive side in the future though the on-hit or the active would be the places to do that though certainly.
Cool :)
Meep Man2 votesWhy is Titanic made for on-hit? It was intended for Juggernauts, yes? Yet most of them more rely on performing a full spell rotation on any enemy than necessarily basic attacking a lot.
Pyrodinium5 votesIt has been said before that of the intended strengths of the Juggernaut class is high sustained damage, instead of burst damage; Having one of their items tied to basic attacks seems like a good fit.
Paress2 votesI'm a bit affraid that 
will be forgotten ..
I mean, with the Tiamat nerf and its final cost which is super high, there will be a huge gap between (75 AD) and 
(45 AD). It'd be much better to buy a 
or even 
instead of that extra which makes buildpath quite horrible with the lack of AD provided before
ProfDrDeath1 votesTiamat is not really nerfed - rather, it is changed.
It is losing a bit of its direct offensive power in trade for getting the waveclear passive - Cleave - back. Which can actually be a lot stronger than 10 AD.
Sire Hippington2 votesas a toplane main, i think the tiamat changes are horrible. 10 ad on a 1200g item are a big loss in raw power, and the waveclear granted is a double-edged sword as it also means you can't cs under the oppsing tower without getting agro, nor can you really freeze lanes anymore, and more often than not it won't give much of an advantage early on, atleast not in soloQ.
Pyrodinium4 votesFrom a design standpoint: Do you think it is acceptable for assassins to build items from the Juggernaut pool when ahead?
Recently we saw GBM's Zed in the LCS going for a very tanky build (Titanic Hydra, Sterak's Gage, Dead Man's Plate, Maw of Malmortius) that allowed him to turn his considerable gold lead into survivablity without losing that much on the damage front.
Is an assassin being able to build both damage and tankiness when ahead a game health issue, or an acceptable pattern made unbalanced by the state of the Juggernaut items?
RiotMeddler7 votesI think there is a degree to which assassins trading off damage for hybrid survivability/offense items can be appropriate. If it's a noticeable damage trade off, and a pretty situational play then there's an interesting decision there that still leaves the opposition with some agency. If you're not giving up significant extra kill power though, or if it's the correct choice most or all of the time if you get a lead, that's not healthy.
Cosnirak3 votesHopefully you're already aware of this but this seems to be exactly what's happening right now. Significant kill power isn't being given up AND it's the correct choice most or all of the time when they get a lead.
Sire Hippington2 votesto be honest, i think the main thing to look at is the active. It just adds stupid amounts of burst, makeing it quite attractive even for assasins/fighters, mostly because it gives an AA reset, granting a total of 100%ad+40+10% hp damage vs the primary target. As far as i know it was more intendet for AA-heavy fighters and juggernauts, like shyvana. As such i think that much burst doesn't fit the item, lowering the damage and cd on the active would make it less valuable for asasination patterns and still good for extendet dps patterns. Lowering the ad is totally fine aswell, though i do think it will need either a buff to the on-hit or to the health it gives to compensate a bit.
Maikal2 votesWhy not make it scale off bonus health so that you have to actually build health to make use of the passive? Steraks could do with a similar treatment since that's being bought even on adcs.
RocketRelm1 votesPersonally I feel like one of the biggest issues is that you don't actually need "a metric ton of kill power" to pop the enemy ADC, you just need 1-2 items when playing an assassin (barring significant support shielding). If the ADC never builds any kind of anti-burst at all, any assassin will start thinking "hrm. I can either deal 200% of the ADC's HP pool, or I can deal 150% of the ADC's HP pool and be twice as survivable." That's a much wider issue, though.
Spoofghoul1 votesThats just assassin base damage issues.
rather then scaling from 100-400 for excample riot shoudl make it from 100-250 and then buff the bonus ratio so the potential damage stays the same.
makes it harder to go tank and still kill someone
Earl Eulrich1 votesanother problem is that the active adds too much burst - which doesn´t really go with the fighter pattern at all (stay in the fight as long as possible), but enables unhealthy patterns on other champions.
LaughingStapler2 votesI don't think Riot has a problem with tank builds on assassins unless they have similar damage to squishier builds. anyway, I hope they give TH more HP if they nerf its AD so much.
Dreadlocks1 votesThats the thing, they arn't really losing enough damage to have a trade-off :P
FeelsCampedMan2 votesIt needs to get its active nerfed
Wobly2 votesMeddler, would you ever consider changing Titanic's on-hit to a on-hit DOT with duration refreshing on additional hits? Why or why not? My own thoughts below:
There's something I'm wondering about Titanic: why did you make it synergize with AS? Titanic is supposed to be a Juggernaut item, and Juggernauts synergize with AD, CDR, and health stacking. They generally have VERY low base AS, and rarely build more. It seems like some kind of on-hit DOT, like Naut's W, might be more appropriate for a Juggernaut item? It'd also keep on-hit champs like Yi or Jax from abusing it.
Retarthus1 votesYes.
Malhammers1 votesThe Titanic Hydra nerf is really just a nerf to Shyvana. She is getting her "q" damage drastically reduced and now reducing her main item's damage as well. RIP Shyvana.
thumbnail91 votesWhy would you take a category like fighter and break it into two separate categories you then have to balance differently? There's 0 reason for this subsection when you already have melee hard carries.
NovaDisk1 votesMaking Titanic proc on-attack vs on-hit would discourage Devourer junglers from building it. Lowering it's AD even more, but having it build out of a Giant's Belt and Ruby Crystal would keep Fiora from building it too.
In exchange, a little more on-hit % Health damage might keep it appealing for people building a truly "Titanic" health pool.
Dreadlocks1 votesI think the Active also keeps it really strong. Its a lot of burst for someone building health, and its an auto attack reset. In my more competitive games, i prefer going Titanic on Rengar and building him tanky because i still have a good amount of burst and i'm not gana die right after i jump in. (esp if i fail the assassination)
Its too safe of an option right now with little to no drawbacks. Even if you arn't building health with it, the stats alone (with AA reset) tend to outweigh that of rav hydra