@Meddler, on the Topic of buffing ADC

D357R0Y3R·Nov 19, 2016·35 votes·2,384 views

in my opinion ADC have unlike before, a great diversity. Before everyone used to be trash except 2 or 3 picks, right now except the class is consistent (somehow). his thread is about giving an opinion on what changes should happen.

Nerfs that should happen: needs to not be a better assassin than assassins, while being an adc

Champions that should remain untouched:

All have a similar level of power that should be the reference

**Champions that should have a small buff (extremelly small): **

Champions that should be reworked:

Champions that should be buffed heavily: ~~Corki~~

champions that are no longer marksmen:

68 Comments

LankPantsNov 19, 201623 votes

Mostly correct, I'd argue that Corki, Sivir and Trist aren't in need of buffs right now and that Cait and Jhin are in need of some nerfs. Other than that I'd agree though.

I'd also exercise extreme caution with any Lucian buffs, I don't think he's actually particuarly weak right now, his winrate tends to be below average at all times to begin with. I have a feeling that Ashe is probably quite a bit weaker than him right now.

D357R0Y3RNov 19, 20161 votes

Jhin and caitlyn has the same win rate as Ezreal in high tiers, while they all have the same pick rate

why woud you nerf them, and not ezreal?

i know that jhin is strong, but so are MissFortune Twitch ect... you don't need to nerf jhin.

LankPantsNov 19, 20164 votes

I also wouldn't necessarily disagree with Ezreal nerfs, I just feel like he's a tier below Cait and Jhin right now. I could be biased on that by my champ pool though, I mostly play Irelia and Sejuani, both of whom are solid Ez counters since he tends to lack the damage to kill a true tank and Irelia can stick to him like glue.

LostFr0stNov 19, 201613 votes

MissFortune is no longer strong/favoured due to the pen changes which severely hurt her combined with the current meta.

Twitch it says something when a champ that got changed so much has a super high win-rate and play rate even though his core item item 3142 is gone.

Jhin Even after item 3142 changes just changed to crit. Doesn't level one of his skills (E) at all and is still on par with other ADs. Due to his locked attspd, has the AD of a melee champ so he always wins single-auto trades. (maybe not vs Draven) He also synergises with nearly every support due to his W, which makes him a very versatile champion.

Vayne The tumble with everything critting is obnoxious to squishies. Other than that I don't think she's out of line considering the meta right now.

Caitlyn Traps behind turret visual are annoying. You literally can't see them.

GrReaper96Nov 19, 20164 votes

A solid good analysis and argument of ADCs on the Boards? What has the world become? Also i think slight nerf to Caitlyn trap damage would be nice. Right now it deals like around 190 + 250%+ her ad in 1 hit, not to mention full damage from her Q and a snare.

LostFr0stNov 19, 20164 votes

You're talking 'bout the headshot followup right? I wouldn't mind that as much if I could see the dam things. The hitbox when she sets them up in a line is something else. (late game trying to tiptoe between them as a tank)

GrReaper96Nov 19, 20162 votes

Yeah. Honestly i think the snare and the headshot follow up and the full damage Q is more than enough on 1 skill. If you ask me Rito should just remove the extra bonus on the traps. Also is super easily counters a lot of skills like Zilean ultimate or Zac passive., not to mention how she can stack it with literally any hard cc her teammates provide To me it doesnt really need that 190+70% damage on top of the headshot proc.

RavenMagusNov 19, 20162 votes

Building Zhonya's when there's a Caitlyn on the other team is a lot of fun, too!

CookyPrinceNov 20, 20161 votes

I think Cait could use some changes to her traps behind turret they're a bit too cheesy while Jhin will always be strong as long as he can always outtrade you, snare you then slow you to all hell with his ult. He's pretty safe and I'm just glad he doesn't have any sort of dash

SonasaurousNov 19, 201621 votes

Champions that are always forgotten to be marksmen: Quinn

UltîmaNov 19, 201613 votes

I would place her in the "champions that are no longer marksmen" though. Even at her release, Quinn was finding more success top than she ever did in the bot lane, and I think she's immensely underestimated as a jungler. Her roaming and gank potential is so nasty, and plays well into her fantasy of being a ranger-scout.

Chromatic EagleNov 19, 20167 votes

How does that make her no longer a marksmen? Shouldn't Marksmen not be limited to bot lane?

JVlasterQuinnNov 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ls8akm0V,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-11-19T22:16:13.760+0000)

How does that make her no longer a marksmen? Shouldn't Marksmen not be limited to bot lane?

She could really use some QoL fix for her Harrier, it's really buggy.

UltîmaNov 21, 20161 votes

Why should they? That'd be like saying only Mages can go mid, and only Fighters top. It's a very narrow mindview of how fluid character design ought to be.

Also I was using OP's logic; Varus and Graves are still marksmen by design, however they are now primarily played outside of the botlane. Just like Quinn.

Chromatic EagleNov 21, 20161 votes

I'm saying that Marksmen shouldn't be limited to bot lane

UltîmaNov 21, 20161 votes

Double negative in your post left my brain confused.

SonasaurousNov 24, 20161 votes

I mean, as a Quinn main who plays her primarily top, I don't disagree with you XD

ProfDrDeathNov 19, 201617 votes

Vayne needs to lose her burst, indeed. Plain and simply changing Q to a smaller buff for several autos should do the trick.

Caitlyn could use a look with her annoying traps.

Jhin needs a nerf. In fact, he needed one for the last 5 patches.

Twitch needs to be observed. Could be that he needs a nerf, similar to Vayne.

Sivir doesn't need changes for now. She's stable between 49 and 50% winrate for patches. If she's going to need something, they could look at her base AS - upping that to .640 or so should help her some.

Ashe could use to have her 6.18 nerf, the one to W's cooldown, reverted.

Corki is currently excelling while being played mid. I don't think that he could be buffed for the ADC without being bonkers there...

Tristana Personally, I'd trade some nerfs on her othe abilities to her her former passive's values back - namely, 9 range per level instead of 7. Or change her base range to 525 on level 1 and give her 10 range/lvl.

KogMaw like Corki, he is currently rather strong in mid. If they wanted to buff him for ADC, a good thing imo would be to increase his base range to 525 or even 550, while keeping the empowered values the same. Other than that, 6.23's buffs to Rageblade and BotRK should help him some.

Quinn also no longer a bot lane ADC. For her (and I say that as a main), I'd love to see them lowering her early power (by increasing Harrier, Q and E base CDs by 1 second each) and give her a bit more power later (have her ult passively decrease Harrier, Q and E base CD by 1/2/3 seconds).

ZepperNov 19, 20165 votes

Meddler says twitch is the result of the meta - Strong front line n' stuff. Riot plans on waiting after the meta shifts to see if he still stays strong.

Critmaster GarenNov 19, 201616 votes

{quoted} Champions that should be reworked:

meddler, if youre reading this, please listen.

dont buff kallista. its a mistake and you know it. none of the issues with her kit that warranted the nerfs to her in the first place have been resolved.

there is no reason to assume anything other than shes going to go back to broken op status with just a few minor buffs.

dont buff her. rework her.

ArakadiaNov 19, 20169 votes

Tristana doesn't need massive buffs. She's troublesome when ahead. Especially with her safety and resets.

I have personal bias against Lucian so I don't want him to be buffed, but he has been less popular.

TheHappyReaperzNov 19, 20168 votes

I'd rather see Kog'maw become a mage than an ADC.

Legacy HydralphaNov 19, 20167 votes

I doubt Corki needs heavy buffs; he isn't a popular champ, but that doesn't mean he's a bad one. I can definitely agree with a small or large Kalista rework, and what makes you say Varus isn't a marksman?

D357R0Y3RNov 19, 20166 votes

Varus is mostly played mid as an AD caster

6SfoolNov 19, 20162 votes

I'm pretty sure mid varus is usually ap. I play him straight ad to get a good q sometimes. It deals like 800 damage late game, but the build isn't really viable

Hyrum GraffNov 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I'm pretty sure mid varus is usually ap. I play him straight ad to get a good q sometimes. It deals like 800 damage late game, but the build isn't really viable

OP is correct here; Varus mid is usually built AD.

Edit: although according to champion.gg. varus is usually played bot. (ie, op is correct about the build but not that it is varus' primary position, in higher elo at least)

6SfoolNov 20, 20161 votes

Hmm. Now I have an excuse to ruin games with the worst build I've ever conceived. item 3042 item 3812 item 3142 item 3078 item 3036 item 3009 item 2140

The DeckownerNov 19, 20167 votes

Teemo the chamoion who can no longer be played as mage and had been forgotten as a marksman.

SpoofghoulNov 19, 20166 votes

you F Urgot a few Kindred Quinn

and ofc Mordekaiser

and my all time favorite Malzahar

ACENOXNov 19, 20162 votes

i play morde adc a lot, and he would be fine if riot removed his xp passive and reverted some W nerfs.

warpenguin555Nov 19, 20165 votes

Corki mid is at 55% win rate. please dont buff him anymore XD. I think that MF and Caitlyn could use some power rebalancing though. Caitlyns Traps should probably be nerfed and have some power moved over to her q (where else would you put it really). MF could really use some nerfs to her ultimate as well. Also, why isnt Varus a marksman anymore? I know why graves isnt, but why Varus?

Pill SlingerNov 19, 20164 votes

You lost me at heavily buffing Corki.

And Ashe doesn't need buffs either lol.

Curling VeigarNov 19, 20164 votes

Lack of Draven is making me sad

D357R0Y3RNov 20, 20161 votes

you're right, but i don't know where to put him.

JVlasterQuinnNov 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

you're right, but i don't know where to put him.

He is in need of small to big buff since his core item build (youmuu) got nerfed.

GayFluffyUnicornNov 20, 20161 votes

Yeah not going to happen. Draven is way too toxic,snowbally and opressive to justify any "big" buffs on him.

Need Gold 4 TentNov 20, 20164 votes

Vayne is currently not a healthy marksman, but I think the CONCEPT of Vayne is. A champion that can take down tanks better than her counterparts, through sustained damage in prolonged fights, which she outplays them through constant repositioning and kiting.

However, the current Vayne that kills squishies in 2 hits is not how she was supposed to function. Leave the 2 shot stuff to Draven, Vayne should do less burst and fall more in line with Kog.

BultzNov 19, 20163 votes

I laughed at this. Jinx doesn't need to be touched? lolol I think only varus needs a little buff. Almost everyone else needs huge nerfs. Adc's are literally in every lane in the game, and now you want to buff them? lolololo nooooo.

Best princess EUNov 19, 20166 votes

if you nerf jinx, then you should nerf cait jhin and ezreal at the same time

and twitch, cause of the last patch

JavelinJoeNov 19, 20164 votes

The are the one role Roiot said are needed in every game you know. They said that the role of an ADC is needed and almost entirely required to win. And they are ok with it so, it is unlikely that they will be nerfed to where playing one is not as great as another champion type for ADC.

GayFluffyUnicornNov 20, 20161 votes

Well if that's the case rito is on a good way to break the game. Sooner or later every other role got nerfed so hard that you basically play with 4 supports and an ADC. Great fantasy-

KoKobotoNov 20, 20163 votes

I would consider Varus a marksmen still because you can have success building going with an A/S build. He has strong utility w/ ult similar to Ashe.

I don't think Kog'Maw or Tristana should be buffed heavily because they still do damage, maybe a bit but they still do damage. Also you should expect Kog'Maw to do poorly with all the assassins being played, regardless he still has hyper carry level DPS like before.

They went overboard with Ashe, they nerfed her one patch and then nerfed her the next patch for like no reason. Just revert the nerf on that patch which I think was decreasing the time she can have Focus and she'll be alright.

TyroneWatermelonNov 20, 20163 votes

Jinx Ult nerf needed. Anyway Riot buffing Vayne-->Vayne becomes overpowered ----> buff every other adc rather than nerfing Vayne. Typical Riot autistic balance team.

GayFluffyUnicornNov 20, 20161 votes

Well yesterday on riot one rioter wrote: We ran into this when we were testing the new assassins (topic was 50kills+ in 20 min into the game, though the overall topic was tric2g losing his mind) and we didn't know if it is the assassins or we trying to make the big plays all the time.... So those designing the changes and testing the assassins don't even understand their own game. Now you know why balance sucks in league of leggo.

SaiannaNov 20, 20163 votes

My "hope it will happen: list:

ADCs would get some tiny bits of AP ratios (For example on Ashes volley). Totally not game breaking, but could allow even more diversity
Tristana would get some update cleaning her of her clunky animations (I had never AA cancelled as much with anyone as with Tristana)
Cait traps need some changes. Especially near enemy turret
Jinx has too much going with her kit IMO. Would like to see her Q nerfed a tad
Jhins R slow is waaaay too strong You simply can't dodge another shot (unless Jhin fks up)
Kog would need AD part buffed, slightly. AP part nerfed.. harshly.
Vayne shouldn't use Q bonus damage as crit base. Or remove her true damage otherwise.
Iceborn gauntled & Ez = big NONO.
Make Sivirs ultimate usefull. Cause is kinda better choice lol.