Reworking Poppy's Ultimate and Passive

Kingsgrave··3 votes·2,036 views

Ultimate first

On Live: "ACTIVE: Poppy focuses intently on a single enemy champion, dealing amplified damage to them, and becoming immune to all damage and abilities from enemies other than her target."

Adjustment: "ACTIVE: Poppy focuses intently on a single enemy champion, increasing damage done to that champion while also increasing damage taken from that champion. She is immune to all CC and damage from every other enemy besides the target but is also unable to deal damage to any other target besides her own."

Poppy is the ultimate tank/assassin hybrid and the ultimate counter to siege comps. What says anti siege better than just straight up eliminating a target, but unlike most assassins she does it in a grandiose fashion. This change also highlights the name, "Diplomatic Immunity", a battle of diplomacy is very rarely one sided and countries usually leave themselves wide upon against the very country they are trying to force their Diplomacy on to.

Now the Passive

On live: "All physical and magic damage dealt to Poppy that exceeds 10% of her current health is reduced by 50%. Valiant Fighter does not reduce damage from structures."

Adjustment: "Upon being dealt damage that exceeds 10% of her current health, **Poppy gains a shield based on her maximum health **18/12/6 second Static CD."

Right now it is nearly impossible to hurt Poppy when she is really low, and her current passive interacts oddly with your defensive stats making it so you only ever want to build raw damage or resistances never health, but that highly limits her build path. Its also nearly impossible to kill a Poppy when she is low or really even now what you have to do to kill her. This new passive functions in relatively the same way, but it opens up her build path and also allows it to be more readable to both her and her enemies while keeping the idea of "Poppy is a ragtag fighter assassin that is difficult to burst"

SUMMARY/REBUTTAL:

**The shield passive is a net buff. It provides you a buffer window that the current one never gives. **It also adds to appreciation. "Oh I lived because of this shield not because I reduced 50% of damage."

Her Ultimate gives 20/30/40% damage increase** against a particular target she ults, and is meant to have a downside allowing that person to hurt her and CC her, but on live she is using it only to IGNORE that person and murder the rest of the team. That is obvious to me that the ability is badly designed**. Imagine if Zed Ult was only used to gapclose into the middle of the team and kill everyone else, rather than his primary target.

15 Comments

Freako8 votes

So reworking = hard nerfing? Why is she even being suggested to be nerfed because she's already weak right now. You'd need to buff the rest of her kit to OP levels to make her relevant since even with the best passive in the game + one of the best ults, she hasn't been a viable pick for like 4 years.

And I don't understand your reasoning behind "opening up build path" by nerfing the hell out of her passive. She can viably go AD or AP AND there are multiple ways to build her for AD or AP. So if she can build AD, AP and resists (according to you, I've never tried resists build), she still has too little building paths since she can't build health?

None of this makes sense to me. You're asking to HARD nerf the only two good things about her without suggesting any buffs (I can't think of any realistic buffs to offset the nerfs when she's already weak right now).

Caustic Crusader1 votes

So reworking = hard nerfing? Why is she even being suggested to be nerfed because she's already weak right now. You'd need to buff the rest of her kit to OP levels to make her relevant since even with the best passive in the game + one of the best ults, she hasn't been a viable pick for like 4 years.

And I don't understand your reasoning behind "opening up build path" by nerfing the hell out of her passive. She can viably go AD or AP AND there are multiple ways to build her for AD or AP. So if she can build AD, AP and resists (according to you, I've never tried resists build), she still has too little building paths since she can't build health?

None of this makes sense to me. You're asking to HARD nerf the only two good things about her without suggesting any buffs (I can't think of any realistic buffs to offset the nerfs when she's already weak right now).

She's kept weak intentionally because when she's viable, it's impossible to fight her at all. This rework proposes nerfs to the parts of her kit that make her unbeatable when viable so that the rest of her kit is able to be buffed. Come on man, have you even read what Riot says in regards to Poopy's balance?

I feel like an issue with the ultimate rework is that her kit's not quite defensive enough to get away once she's deleted her target. I mean it would be annoying if she could run in, take someone out without anything you can do about it, then walk out, so I know she can't have too much defense, but on the other hand, Fizz. I say maybe give her a grace period when her ultimate ends where she takes highly reduced damage? Maybe 2 or 3 seconds where she gets a 60% damage reduction when her ultimate ends? She would still be CCable in that time, so if you could nab her while she flees you can make her pay for deleting your target? As it is, there's still champs that can delete a target and get out without an ult like Poopy's.

Kingsgrave1 votes

The shield passive is a net buff actually. It provides you a buffer window that the current one never gives. It also adds to appreciation. "Oh I lived because of this shield not because I reduced 50% of damage."

Her Ultimate gives 20/30/40% damage increase against a particular target she ults, and is meant to have a downside allowing that person to hurt her and CC her, but on live she is using it only to IGNORE that person and murder the rest of the team. That is obvious to me that the ability is badly designed. Imagine if Zed Ult was only used to gapclose into the middle of the team and kill everyone else, rather than his primary target.

These changes will appear to be nerfs because current Poppy has no real counterplay. The only real counterplay she has is that they destroyed her base damages and base stats heavily so that she would never see real play beyond a hyper specific teamcomp to counter a hyper specific character.

Zulgaines3 votes

True Riot style balancing here, crap in your face and tell you it's candy.

S0NA2 votes

I like the idea of changing her ult like you suggested.

I despise it when Poppy ults Sona and then charges at me when I'm playing Katarina, and I have no defenses whatsoever :/

junglerboy162 votes

I like the change to her ult, except it should NEVER make her take increased damage from the target. If anything, since it no longer lets her 1v5 whole teams, its duration or damage amp should be increased, along with a reduced cool down. Maybe the cool down is reduced by x amount if she kills her target? (nothing huge, like 15 seconds maybe, not a reset).

The passive change is weird, but could work. it might be a way that Riot could keep the effect relatively similar while removing the antiquated mechanics it uses.

With either of these changes they would have to REALLY buff her to keep her from turning into a champ with awful early AND late game.

Kingsgrave1 votes

Well yeah thats the idea, her passive and ult are the problems in her kit that stopped her from ever being buffed. The rest of her kit is fine and can just be adjusted accordingly.

IwfiKe3qjM1 votes

maybe move damage reduction passive (without exceeding 10% current health requirement) into ult for replacing Immunity... (still hard for picking number because for really focusing target... dealt/received percentage ratio should be larger than half ratio of non targeted... but still need damage reduction from non targeted ones...)

move W passive to innate passive... make it shred % enemy armor and gains AD half of armor reduction amount that stack...

move movement speed bonus to W passive... and W for entirely new ability...

for Q and E just needed some damage adjustment though...

Eawaf1 votes

I do not like the changes to the ult. The ult is designed to do exactly what you don't like it doing. Like the UoL vs Millenium match(game 3) her ult is used as a 'siege breaker' to force the adc away from the turret in that match. This ultimate is the most unique ultimate in the game and should not be changed. This ultimate forces teams to rethink how to engage and fight team fights.

Poppy has a LOT of weaknesses especially when it comes to ranked play. She is almost forced to be a counter pick for top since she has many hard counters in the top lane. Her jungle clear also makes her slow to get going. Her early game is so bad against hard counters that without jungle help she is completely useless late game.

Counter- Darius,Irelia,Jayce,Teemo, Vlad, Renekton, hell even a good riven can zone poppy with that bullshit dash/stun. Rumble is another huge hard counter to her. Kennan will also shut her down. Ryze kills her pretty easy too ; /.

Don't nerf the only 2 things that make this champion unique in LoL. She needs buffs more then anything atm. I'd like to see her E changed so that she can target allied minions so she actually has a way to get away from darius or irelia without losing 1/2 her life in a trade.

Kingsgrave1 votes

It gives you increased damage towards a target and makes it so you reduce CC so that you can take down that target. Using it to just ignore the target you get amplified damage towards is just plain weird.

IwfiKe3qjM1 votes

i think it's because that was the loophole...

attacking targeted ult make: dealt: 120%/130%/140% received: 100%

attacking other: dealt: 100% received: 0%

which one get ratio damage dealt/received percentage greater??? attacking non-ult target of course...

Eawaf1 votes

@CynicalGiant. It's not weird to ult a mundo that does no damage and only has one slow, and beat up a squishy nami or ezreal that can't cc you. This is part of what makes poppy shine. She has a choice on who to pick as an ult target, She can target the adc and delete them in 2 seconds or target a support or tank or whoever, There is many choices on who to use the ability on. The execution of these choices is very important to whether or not you can win.

People like to make it sound easy. But like any other champ, knowing when and how to use poppys abilities are intrigal to how to win with poppy, Contrary to popular belief, you can't just walk up to a 5 man team and 1v5 them. Warding, positioning, shot calling, initiation, all key elements to playing with and against a poppy.

Folks that get 1v5'd don't understand how to play against her, don't know how to position/initiate a teamfight, or are just unlucky. And you can be unlucky against any champ in this game ; /.

Kingsgrave1 votes

You can't possibly think this is balanced tho. If a part of a Champion's identity is just ignoring 4/5ths of the enemy team they shouldn't have that identity.

Eawaf1 votes

I do think it's balanced. Poppy is not a pick that can be taken anywhere. She is exactly what the designers intended her to be. A late game melee hyper carry with shit early game.

Having a champ that is specifically designed to take out the apc or adc. This is her role. It's the responsibility of the person that is ulted to cc her kill her, slow her. Her ult is on a huge cd and does not last forever.

Players that know her strength and weaknesses can counter her easily. However she seems op because teams in random solo Q don't know how to deal with her and don't generally coordinate to respond to her. Without her ult she is a non factor in team fights. She can be cc'd for days, has one short range gap closer on a greater then 10 second cd.

Positioning, baiting, picking her off, split pushing, poking, kiting, there are so many ways to deal with her. The scenario where she can come in and own everyone is like i said before, they don't know how to respond to her, have terrible position or are unlucky. And everyone is unlucky at some point in this game.

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