"Wahh Aatrox rework is so bad I just first timed him in blinds and I'm a sheep so I think he sucks"

Danny DeVito·Mar 8, 2017·68 votes·6,333 views

REMEMBER ME?

Oh, and

You don't know shit, quit crying he's been out for a few hours

84 Comments

EbonyBladeJ88Mar 8, 201736 votes

It's the newest thing added to the "Gameplay Boards Roulette".

https://media.giphy.com/media/1DEJwfwdknKZq/giphy.gif

salty testiMar 8, 20172 votes

[deleted]

EbonyBladeJ88Mar 9, 20176 votes

It represents the infinitude of topics that the Gameplay Boards can complain about. It is stylized as a Roulette wheel because they spin it, and whatever it lands on, they make countless posts about!

3TWarriorMar 9, 20171 votes

seizure...seizure!

UltîmaMar 8, 201715 votes

AurelionSol Bard Ivern Khazix Lucian Sion Yasuo Zed remember how, on their releases, all these champions were hated by the community for being ''terrible''? Boy did that change after a few weeks.

eaglei3Mar 8, 201720 votes

To be fair, some on your list were bad on release. It was the subsequent change the next patch that made them really strong.

UltîmaMar 8, 20171 votes

Oh man, I'd love to see Riot revert them just to see how wrong that statement is.

Cosmic WarperMar 8, 201711 votes

{quoted}

Oh man, I'd love to see Riot revert them just to see how wrong that statement is.

??? lucian was ass tier on release. He had to be buffed and bugfixed several times before he became a monstrosity. Same thing with yasuo

Sagan ForeverMar 8, 20171 votes

The dragon had a 60% win rate on mains. Yasou when realeased was over twice as strong as he is now. Poppy was underpowered... still in pro play after over a year of nerfs. Ekko was underpowered so they have him a tiny buff, then is played and people realize he is freelo and after nerf after nerf... is longer a tank... well played mostly as an assasin now.

BladeSteelMar 8, 20178 votes

Ekko was super op on release and everyone knew it. He got nothing but nerfs the following patches. Idk what game you were playing

Sagan ForeverMar 8, 20171 votes

This is the game I was playing. Do not worry not everyone played the game last yea, or you could look at ekko's nerfs/buffs to see if you were accurate. Also no argument for 3/4 seems good to me.

Patch Notes 6.3

Q cooldown lowered at early levels.

Quote.png As a midlaner, Ekko's potential is a little too limited by high cooldowns and melee range. Upping his ability to scrap with opponents (or even last-hit) early game levels the playing field against the long-range, crowd-controlling mages Ekko's often asked to tango with. Unquote.png

Timewinder.png Q - Timewinder
    COOLDOWN: 11/10/9/8/7 seconds ⇒ 9/8.5/8/7.5/7 second

Patch Notes 6.6

Passive speed duration up. E cooldown reduced.

Quote.png Ekko specializes in creating high moments through big engages and risky dives, but his time has passed - falling short compared to his counterparts in almost every lane and role. Strengthening Ekko’s ‘hit-and-run’ gameplay gives him more power to follow through on the kill pressure he creates during early skirmishes. Unquote.png

Z-DriveResonance.png Passive - Z-Drive Resonance
    MOVEMENT SPEED: 40/50/60/80% (at levels 1-16) ⇒ 50/60/70/80% (at levels 1-16)
PhaseDive.png E - Phase Dive
    COOLDOWN: 13/11.5/10/8.5/7 seconds ⇒ 11/10/9/8/7 seconds

This is when people started to play ekko again realizing that despite the nerfs in season 5 he was still an overpowered tank.

Patch Notes 6.8

W and E base damage down, but AP scaling increased.

Quote.png Ekko’s rampage through toplane may be a problem of the present, but this isn’t the first time this has happened. To recap our feelings about Tank Ekko (from way back in 5.15) - it’s about tradeoffs. AP Ekko earns his game-ending skirmish potential by putting himself at constant risk: Chronobreak and Parallel Convergence are unwieldy when Ekko’s fragile enough to die before he can use them optimally. Tank Ekko’s survivability makes these tools much more reliable, but due to a combination of low cooldowns and high base damage, he still brings the beatdown as well. We’re fine with Tank Ekko shining in specific situations, but significantly lowering the build’s damage output (relative to AP-focused builds) ensures Ekko’s risk-reward paradigm is kept in check. Unquote.png

ParallelConvergence.png W - Parallel Convergence
    PASSIVE ON-HIT DAMAGE: 5% of the target’s missing health ⇒ 3% of the target’s missing health
    PASSIVE ON-HIT RATIO: 1% per 50 ability power ⇒ 1% per 33 ability power
    NEW I LIKE HITTING YOU: Now deals a minimum of 15 damage to minions and monsters
PhaseDive.png E - Phase Dive
    BASE DAMAGE: 50/80/110/140/170 ⇒ 40/65/90/115/140
    RATIO: 0.2 ability power ⇒ 0.4 ability power

BladeSteelMar 8, 201710 votes

Considering Ekko was released in patch 5.10....not 6.2...

lets see...5.11 patch notes says "General MOVEMENT SPEED 345 ⇒ 340 W - Parallel Convergence COST 30/40/50/60/70 mana ⇒ 50/55/60/65/70 mana VISION Granted on cast ⇒ Granted 2 seconds after cast CLARITY CONVERGENCE Detonation zone is now more readable for opponents R - Chronobreak EKKO LOCATION Increased visibility of Ekko's time-clone following Ekko for the enemy team"

5.12 says : "General MANA GROWTH STAT 40 mana ⇒ 50 mana BASE ATTACK SPEED .644 ⇒ .625 ATTACK SPEED GROWTH STAT 3% ⇒ 3.3% Passive - Z-Drive Resonance BASE DAMAGE 15 + 12 per level ⇒ 10 + 10 per level Q - Timewinder INITIAL HIT RATIO 0.2 ability power ⇒ 0.1 ability power R - Chronobreak COST No cost ⇒ 100 mana DAMAGE RADIUS 400 ⇒ 375"

and look at that....nothing but nerfs for the next 2 patches after he was released. You jump into patch 6.2, which was around 13 patches after he was released...that is definitely not release ekko...

Sagan ForeverMar 9, 20171 votes

This is about the state of aa after a hotfix not release? I never said release ekko, and you said ekko never received any buffs. Your round of patch notes has increased mana growth, increased attack speed growth, given visibility for his q. When I said I played the game last year that is season 6, not season 5 making the patch notes you posted irrelivent seeing as season 5 was two years ago. This is about not overreacting when a champion is given complicated mechanics and saying they are underpowered, when the problem could be that no one knows how to play them yet. If you miss under my argument and decided that your missundering and/or me not staying my argument well enough originally does not explain arguing that people thought last years( season 6 not season 5) ekko was considered weak, when he was overpowered.

Ps if we just had a misunderstanding that's cool. I was talking about season 6 you were were talking about season 5 I just realized.

BladeSteelMar 9, 20172 votes

No the entire conversation was about champions ON RELEASE. Go read through it again. Your entire post about "not overreacting when a champion is given complicated mechanics" doesn't fit on this thread. This one is about champions on release. Look at the comments before yours, not just what you think happened. So your "season 6" comments don't fit here. Everyone else was talking about on release champions and you come out with "The dragon had a 60% win rate on mains. Yasou when realeased was over twice as strong as he is now. Poppy was underpowered... still in pro play after over a year of nerfs. Ekko was underpowered so they have him a tiny buff, then is played and people realize he is freelo and after nerf after nerf... is longer a tank... well played mostly as an assasin now." Everyone else was talking about release champions. So it was safe to assume you were talking about ekko on release, saying "ekko was under powered" Hence why everyone downvoted you and upvoted me

Blakers1Mar 9, 20173 votes

He also forgot to mention the reason behind most of those Ekko "buffs" was due to tank Ekko being completely busted, while AP Assassin Ekko was damn near useless in comparison at the time. Hints why they nerfed base damages with ratio buffs. Ekko has never seen major buffs. Only nerfs and power shifts that attempted to keep his intended play style viable, while nerfing his busted tank builds.

QuephaMar 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, some on your list were bad on release. It was the subsequent change the next patch that made them really strong.

And the point of these Aatrox changes were not necessarily to balance him but to make him balance-able. Before these changes it was known that a viable Aatrox was synonymous with an overpowered Aatrox.

TotalJerkMar 8, 20173 votes

I'm pretty sure nobody who was decent thought Ivern was bad on launch. It was general consensus that nobody understood him yet.

MelledoneusMar 9, 20174 votes

Shen

Upon rework, was nerfed before any player testing occurred. Released too weak. Was consequently nerfed due to pro play. Win rate dropped to 43%. Was nerfed even heavier for the same damn reason. Win rate dropped to sub-40 levels. Everyone stopped playing him except his dedicated mains, who brought him to an even 46% win rate because of their vast experience. Riot buffed his atrocious base stats slightly, his win rate came up to a nice 47-48% win rate.

Now he's getting nerfed again.

Y'all need to stop crying about your champions sucking or getting nerfed "for no reason." Shen literally gets nerfed because he's good at the one thing his kit allows him to do, and he doesn't even do it the best out of the roster.

DaBaiXiongMar 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

remember how, on their releases, all these champions were hated by the community for being ''terrible''? Boy did that change after a few weeks.

Ivern is still dogshit. And Yasuo and Zed are still universally hated.

Kha'zix has been passed over for Rengar, and I literally just never see the drake .. planet thing. I don't even remember his name and I own him.

Also, why play Sion when you can play Darius?

Galio is fucking ugly. And Aatrox got nerfed.

VeltoxMar 9, 20172 votes

Sion got better roaming potential with ult and more cc. His early can match Darius too.

3TWarriorMar 9, 20171 votes

aurelion sol got buffed extensively, bard is still a champion only favored in higher elos, ivern has a 57% winrate, khazix has ALWAYS been complained about until that brief period where he could not excel, Lucian has been make or break depending upon meta for years, Sion...Sion was overpowered on his re-release and the old gameplay was so diffferent from today that I can't make a valid comparison, Yasuo...uhhh, everyone still hates him? Zed..Zed is still the most popular mid laner and is completely annoying to play against

SalronMar 8, 201712 votes

Oh look Even a Rioter stated he's performing a lot worse than expected Not to mention the handful of Aatrox players in existence came out and mentioned how much weaker he feels to them

Looks like you're the one who doesn't know shit

Sagan ForeverMar 9, 20175 votes

Riot buffed Fiora and Vladimir after they were updatedfor being "weak" because of community outcry only to be nerfed later. Until people know how to play with the change, let's not make judgement.

Leaf on BushMar 9, 20172 votes

Even a Rioter stated he's performing a lot worse than expected

Which again can be the result of Aatrox mains not adapting and doesn't mean shit. You just WANT TO jump to the conclusion that Aatrox in his current state is too weak.

SalronMar 9, 20175 votes

Let's look at the resources available to us

On paper: It definitely is a nerf From the mouths of Aatrox players: It's a nerf From Riot's stats: It's a nerf

They literally took a weak champion and made him worse

You can quote me on this in the future if I'm wrong(which i'm not) But as it stands, Aatrox is in a terrible spot, just reading the passive changes alone will tell you that

Leaf on BushMar 9, 20172 votes

I don't see how you jumping to conclusions can be considered a ressource, except for the "mouths of Aatrox players" part that we have all experienced more than enough. xD

I don't even want to hear your arguments for why you think its a nerf on paper. I don't need you to pick all the reduced numbers and removed things to make it sound as bad as possible. I could do this myself if I wanted a polemic interpretation of the patch notes.

But the patch notes also contain a very fundamental change, they almost scream "build more tank items you bloody moron!". and i don't see any of the complainers discussing this option, that a more tanky Aatrox could actually be decent. Given the circumstances i wouldn't even use words such as buff or nerf, because Riot tried to change the role he takes in a team. If this community wouldn't be so damn ignorant we would see discussions such as " i understand where Riot wanted to go with the Aatrox changes, he is supposed to be a more reliable frontline, that brings a lot of tankiness and sustain to a fight, but he is still too weak, because....". This is how a reasonable reaction would look like and NOT "Aatrox is trash now and I am Aatrox main so i am right".

And here is a quote for you from

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-75-revisiting-aatrox

We hope that this gives tanky fighter items - and perhaps the occasional pure defensive item - a better home in Aatrox’s inventory, by making it less counterintuitive to build health. With more opportunities to supplement his sturdiness, Aatrox can leap into scrappy fights and have enough time to slash people up in Blood Rush without immediately collapsing.

SkinWeebsAliveMar 9, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancer Cavalier ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lkzKPhiE,comment-id=000a000200000000,timestamp=2017-03-09T11:20:18.851+0000)

I don't see how you jumping to conclusions can be considered a ressource, except for the "mouths of Aatrox players" part that we have all experienced more than enough. xD

I don't even want to hear your arguments for why you think its a nerf on paper. I don't need you to pick all the reduced numbers and removed things to make it sound as bad as possible. I could do this myself if I wanted a polemic interpretation of the patch notes.

But the patch notes also contain a very fundamental change, they almost scream "build more tank items you bloody moron!". and i don't see any of the complainers discussing this option, that a more tanky Aatrox could actually be decent. Given the circumstances i wouldn't even use words such as buff or nerf, because Riot tried to change the role he takes in a team. If this community wouldn't be so damn ignorant we would see discussions such as " i understand where Riot wanted to go with the Aatrox changes, he is supposed to be a more reliable frontline, that brings a lot of tankiness and sustain to a fight, but he is still too weak, because....". This is how a reasonable reaction would look like and NOT "Aatrox is trash now and I am Aatrox main so i am right".

And here is a quote for you from

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-75-revisiting-aatrox

So building all hp on an inherent attack speed champion who only gets healing if he uses his auto attacks........... Also how is he supposed to be a frontline if he has 1 movement disabling cc ability and no fucking damage?

Leaf on BushMar 9, 20171 votes

1 attack speed item + titanic hydra does enough damage to squishies.

Also if you jump on their ADC you will tank damage, i am sure.

SkinWeebsAliveMar 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancer Cavalier ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lkzKPhiE,comment-id=000a00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-09T19:05:05.995+0000)

1 attack speed item + titanic hydra does enough damage to squishies.

Also if you jump on their ADC you will tank damage, i am sure.

Cant build an item if anybody with common sense rapes me in-lane.

nOOb arabMar 9, 201711 votes

Don't you just love it when people take aatrox's state in sarcasm, and then people like you try to convince Riot they're doing good job by posting salty threads that has 0 actual gameplay knowledge and meaning regarding the champ, then you send the image of how Aatrox is a good champ in the wrong hands when many mains out there see that mini-rework as a fail one that only nerfed all his power levels from early to late.

If you have no idea what you're talking about don't compare Aatrox with different champs that have their kits COMPLETELY changed! unlike cass and Sion AAtrox had his numbers changed and his passive very..VERY gated when it comes to reviving and using the steroids. thanks

IceKingChernobogMar 8, 20177 votes

TahmKench too

Carrie PigeonMar 8, 20177 votes

I can't find many players who are happy with the Aatrox changes. While I am yet to play or try them (and my opinion won't be valid as I don't have any experience in Aatrox before said update) I will say there are notable issues.

Passive Negatives: His updated passive is easily played around. It essentially makes him like Zilean who had ulted himself. You simply wait out the timer and your set. Along with this the fact his revival is on a 3 minute cooldown and can only happen in the 4 second window you have the blood well maxed is a bit odd. This seems very punishing for little to no reason. Along with it he has lost his consistent attack speed steroid as you only gain the bonus for 4 seconds upon the passive bar being full. Positives: Lower revive timer, Bonus AD while blood well is full, No longer loses blood well charges while out of combat (this one isn't as important as it would take 55 seconds to go from 100% blood well to 0%)

Q Negatives: His Q has the same issues it had before. Long channel like effect and easily stoppable. Q Also lost 60-130 base damage based on rank. Positives: Lost its health cost and gained 50% Bonus AD ratio.

W Negatives : His W heals less it seems. While 5% max HP is good it lost its AD scaling and no longer triples at low health. His W Damage is less aswell losing 30-50 base damage (based on rank) losing 25% of it's AD scaling however no longer costs health. This end part seems great however makes it a bit oddly named as Blood Price no longer fits. Positives: His W base heal has been increased. W no longer costs health.

E Negatives: His E is a weaker slow rank 1-2 and loses out on duration rank 3-4-5. It has been changed to Physical damage making armor more punishing than it was before. E lost it's AP ratio. Positives: His E gained 10% AD ratio, costs 30 hp instead of 5% current hp, gains 15 base damage max rank.

Overall Aatrox lost a rather large portion of consistent attack speed, damage, and his theme. He is no longer this sustain based fighter who reduces his own health to increase his damage. With his attack speed and sustain both heavily nerfed early game he can no longer jungle efficiently as stated by Challnger EUW Aatrox main sweeeeeet dreams on the AatroxMains subreddit under the username Violence01 - "They killed Aatrox Jungle for no reason. He lost 30% Attackspeed on the first clear, the W damage and heal is worse. The health costs removal is irrelevant because he never dropped far under 50% HP before."

Aatrox can be stronger now as a bruiserish fighter however lost what made him unique and the change of playstyle while keeping the samish kit is baffling. Aatrox players have had the short end of the stick for a while as far as patches go and this update ignored any and all ideas they had an instead gave their main a different playstyle along with him losing a lot of his core identity. Frustration from them is very understandable.

Leaf on BushMar 9, 20173 votes

Maybe what you consider his "core identity" was the problem and a dead end from a design perspective, which is why he didn't simply get buffed?

SpecterVonBarenMar 8, 20176 votes

Cass is a really, REALLY bad example for this dude.

LauchmelderMar 9, 20171 votes

Not really. Everything boils down to a change in how you play the reworked champion.

Cass used to be mainly played as a DoT mage by a lot of people, now she's better as DPS cannon.

SpecterVonBarenMar 9, 20171 votes

The main hate of the rework wasn't he being functional, it was them changing the style of play her mains wanted out of her.

LauchmelderMar 9, 20171 votes

It's exactly what happened with Aatrox. His mains now need to think about when to engage and how to properly manage their passive instead of the nobrainer his old passive was.

And his other abilities will be buffed anyway, so it's not worth talking about.

SkinWeebsAliveMar 9, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lkzKPhiE,comment-id=000c000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-09T18:28:46.417+0000)

It's exactly what happened with Aatrox. His mains now need to think about when to engage and how to properly manage their passive instead of the nobrainer his old passive was.

And his other abilities will be buffed anyway, so it's not worth talking about.

Properly manage his passive? Jesus you cant even use it if the enemy uses a single brain cell and just walks the fuck away making you lose all the blood stacks.

Big LincolnMar 8, 20175 votes

Bard too

Death by GlamourMar 8, 20174 votes

The buffs to his damage are the only thing that keep him in the game

TotalJerkMar 8, 20174 votes

LOL people were saying Sion was bad his E was did even more damage through minions and only costs 25 mana at all ranks. People didn't realize how cancerous that shit was because everyone was maxing Q.

HawkefireMar 8, 20173 votes

New Aatrox does feel pretty shitty right now though. It feels like he gets significantly less functional attack speed than any other champion with the same amount of attack speed.

For example:

Lets say we have some champion X with 1.00 attack speed. Then lets say that Aatrox also has 1.00 attack speed. Right now it feels like Aatrox has something like .75 or possibly an even lower amount of attack speed.

I certainly could be wrong but that is what it feels like in game.

Carrie PigeonMar 8, 20173 votes

This is likely because youre used to blood well giving you attack speed at all stages of the game. At the moment you only gain the 30-50% attack speed you would have from blood well while your stacks decay.

GULAG 4 UMar 8, 20173 votes

Well... You don't need to try him that much to be honest. They've taken away so much from his kit that it would be a miracle if he's stronger.

Zephyrous XMar 8, 20172 votes

As an aatrox main since he was released, he is actually much weaker and they didn't fix the actual problems in his kit

Q- long cooldown and charge up, very easy to interrupt

W- only good ability which is just garbage now

E- now gets countered by tabis which are built against him 70% of the time

R- still a boring ability

his jungle sustain is a joke now and he is trading a constant 30-55% attack speed steroid for a weaker one in bursts, they pretty much removed the small amount of niche in his kit and his healing doesn't scale with fervor anymore and the changes to warlord's don't work well with him. He is an even worse position then before and i really didn't think that was possible

ssj8BrolykugetaMar 9, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zephyrous X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lkzKPhiE,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-03-08T23:56:23.263+0000)

As an aatrox main since he was released, he is actually much weaker and they didn't fix the actual problems in his kit

Q- long cooldown and charge up, very easy to interrupt

W- only good ability which is just garbage now

E- now gets countered by tabis which are built against him 70% of the time

R- still a boring ability

his jungle sustain is a joke now and he is trading a constant 30-55% attack speed steroid for a weaker one in bursts, they pretty much removed the small amount of niche in his kit and his healing doesn't scale with fervor anymore and the changes to warlord's don't work well with him. He is an even worse position then before and i really didn't think that was possible

i wouldnt say hes weaker per say. They just changed his gameplay. Its enough to piss off any champion main community

SkinWeebsAliveMar 9, 20171 votes

[deleted]

LauchmelderMar 9, 20172 votes

Nice way to disagree.

OP is right. And yes, idgaf about his numbers. The rework hasn't even been out for more than a few hours and people already complain because they can't play the same stupid playstyle they always played with.

ADAPT

SkinWeebsAliveMar 9, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lkzKPhiE,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2017-03-09T14:21:43.336+0000)

Nice way to disagree.

OP is right. And yes, idgaf about his numbers. The rework hasn't even been out for more than a few hours and people already complain because they can't play the same stupid playstyle they always played with.

ADAPT

Excuse me adapt to what? If i have a 4 second window to revive have no healing or pressure in-lane hell it's impossible to even jungle Aatrox lol.

LauchmelderMar 9, 20171 votes

You played Aatrox once after his rework and I can't even find a game you played him beforehand. Why do you expect to do good at him to begin with?