Boards›Gameplay

7/10 top tier champions for mid lane are AP champs...

Marshbouy··44 votes·12,971 views

Boards reaction:

"AP champions are weak"

https://i.gyazo.com/fde73e2dbb56e1608d81a7c044433cc5.png

EDIT: the only argument I can see for ap champs being weak is that Yasuo, Irelia, Zed, and Talon all have relatively high pickrates (11%, 11%, 9%, and 6% respectively), but they're the only four AD champions out of the top twenty.

EDIT 2:

Let me post a counter argument here.

The jungle is primarily dominated by AD champions, right? Not exactly.

https://i.gyazo.com/bffd3c33b98aa81c88c9c8ccf24e8da8.png

3 out of the top 4 are exclusively AP. 4 out of ten total (or just 3/10 if you don't count gragas which I personally don't because champions like him, Zac, Sejuani and Amumu are picked mainly for their CC and tank above anything else). There are only about 6 or so AP champs picked jungle in total.

Those numbers are very comparable to the top tier AD mid champions. Why aren't people asking for AP junglers to be taken down to a lower level?

114 Comments

ModCaptainMårvelous44 votes

Jokes on you every single AP champion on that list is just an AP Assassin.

This was a nerf assassin post all along.

Checkmate.

Marshbouy17 votes

{quoted}

Jokes on you every single AP champion on that list is just an AP Assassin.

This was a nerf assassin post all along.

Checkmate.

I'm imagining Anivia as an assassin and just...LMAO

ModCaptainMårvelous15 votes

Icicle is a crit.

Fucking tired of zero counterplay anivia stunning me than blowing me up. Duskblade built RIGHT into her kit???? WHO DESIGNED THIS CHAMPION!?!?!

agac42341 votes

just dodge her stun lmao. if you egt close to her you can kill her if you dont she cant kill you

Z3Sleeper5 votes

She spawns walls dude. WALLS!

You try to dodge? WALL! You try to get close? WALL! You try to run? WALL! You give up and try to run it down mid? WALL! You try to leave your spawn? WALL! You try to leave the game? WALL! You attempt to uninstall? WALL! You literally close your eyes and try to think happy thoughts? Good luck cuz she just walled those off too!

And worst of wall, its size increases with rank. Absolutely disgusting ability for an Assassin to have.

d9u7c1anh3 votes

{quoted}

She spawns walls dude. WALLS!

You try to dodge? WALL! You try to get close? WALL! You try to run? WALL! You give up and try to run it down mid? WALL! You try to leave your spawn? WALL! You try to leave the game? WALL! You attempt to uninstall? WALL! You literally close your eyes and try to think happy thoughts? Good luck cuz she just walled those off too!

And worst of wall, its size increases with rank. Absolutely disgusting ability for an Assassin to have.

How many AD mid don't have dash?

Sp33d Zer03 votes

Anivia item 3089 item 3027 item 3040 item 3020 item 3135 item 3285

Laughs in 200% AP ratio QE combo

Avatar Leona1 votes

Lmao logged in just to upvote this Leona

BraveCapuccino1 votes

Abyssal's better than tear ?

Sp33d Zer01 votes

No

Xeronic4 votes

{quoted}

Jokes on you every single AP champion on that list is just an AP Assassin.

This was a nerf assassin post all along.

Checkmate.

Anivia is the best assassin

Jamaree28 votes

GETTING TIRED OF YOUR LOGIC MARSHBOUY

Lets have shrex27 votes

Which other AD champions aside of Zed Talon Yasuo Irelia are played mid ?

Marshbouy7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lets have shrex,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lkLZMQ1O,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-02T22:48:33.236+0000)

Which other AD champions aside of Zed Talon Yasuo Irelia are played mid ?

uhh...Jayce? I don't know. I don't play this game.

Lets have shrex21 votes

{quoted}

uhh...Jayce? I don't know. I don't play this game.

No shit "top tier champions being played midlane are mages" is a thing, do you see skirmishers and fighters and assassins played botlane ?

Marshbouy10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lets have shrex,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lkLZMQ1O,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-02T22:51:56.201+0000)

No shit "top tier champions being played midlane are mages" is a thing, do you see skirmishers and fighters and assassins played botlane ?

dude I don't fucking know. I seriously don't play this game. All I know is that some guy on the hot page is ranting about how underpowered AP champs are when they're literally the most dominant characters to play mid lane.

ModWulf Helhammer25 votes

oh god that thread. It hurts [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Basically the entire reason I stay away from the hot page.

Sp33d Zer02 votes

Would you not argue Irelia and Yasuo to be fighter/skirmishers?

Eedat14 votes

Thats it. There are only 4 AD mids played anymore. All the others were booted from the lane. That doesnt prove your point. It proves the opposite lol

SwiftKitten886 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lets have shrex,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lkLZMQ1O,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-02T22:48:33.236+0000)

Which other AD champions aside of Zed Talon Yasuo Irelia are played mid ?

none really .. so 3/4 AD mid laners are in the top ten

and id how many ap mid laners are there but off the top of my head

Lux Morgana Annie AurelionSol Azir Brand Ahri Akali Diana EkkoFizz Heimerdinger Gragas Katarina Lissandra Leblanc Malzahar Orianna Ryze Syndra TwistedFate Velkoz Veigar Vladimir Xerath Zoe Zyra Ziggs

so that makes 28? roughly give or take 1-2 so we have 3 AD in the top 10 (which is 3/4 of 4) and 7 AP ( which is 1/4th of 28)

so what your saying is:

3/4th of the AD mid laners are in the top 10 while only 1/4th of AP mid laners are in the top 10.

Eedat6 votes

Since when are there only 4 AD mids in the game? There are 4 AD mids left in the game. All the other AD champs that were played Mid got kicked out.

Lucian Corki MonkeyKing Gangplank Jayce Pantheon Camille Nocturne Kled Darius Garen Fiora Khazix Olaf

I guess if you get kicked out of mid then you just cease to exist I guess

SweedishGunner3 votes

I mean they got kicked out for a reason. Lucian mid is so fucking oppressive when it's strong.

Edit; also a lot of those champs just go top by default to increase their chances of a good/melee matchup, you ain't gonna be blind picking Darius mid into like Ori.

Eedat7 votes

Lucian mid was legit fucking trash. He had a 46% WR at all times and people only cried about him because he was in LCS and they're mindless sheep

BestPudgeNA6 votes

{quoted}

Lucian mid was legit fucking trash. He had a 46% WR at all times and people only cried about him because he was in LCS and they're mindless sheep

He was in LCS because he was a god tier as a counter pick and in certain team comps. He had 46% WR cause all the autofilled ADCs blind picked him mid and had 0 clue how to lane with him solo.

Z3Sleeper3 votes

Missing a few

MasterYi Ashe Pyke Riven Varus Aatrox

Also I don't ever remember Nocturne, Olaf and Fiora mid? When did those picks happen?

Sp33d Zer02 votes

Aatrox Jayce

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lets have shrex,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lkLZMQ1O,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-02T22:48:33.236+0000)

Which other AD champions aside of Zed Talon Yasuo Irelia are played mid ?

Lucian...

rarely.

PopcornBunni13 votes

100% of the ADs played mid are in the top tier

20% of the APs played mid are in the top

LUL

Marshbouy4 votes

{quoted}

100% of the ADs played mid are in the top tier

20% of the APs played mid are in the top

LUL

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, can you please elaborate?

wildfox9T17 votes

there can't physically be more than 4 AD mid laners in top tier because there are only 4 AD mid laners in this game

and those 4 are all in top tier,it means that 100% of ADs mid are top tier

Marshbouy7 votes

{quoted}

there can't physically be more than 4 AD mid laners in top tier because there are only 4 AD mid laners in this game

and those 4 are all in top tier

Irelia is the 6th "top tier" champion that is AD. Yasuo is 7th. Talon is 9th. They're hardly dominating mages.

I'd argue that the reason why you don't see more AD midlaners is that more often then not - unless they're one of the select few who are designed around being played mid lane - they get destroyed by mages.

Making sweeping complaints like "all AD itemization is way better than AP itemization because 4 AD champions are good in mid lane" is absurd.

EDIT: It's also worth pointing out that "top tier" and "viable" aren't the same thing. Sure maybe not every single AP champ in the game is a "top tier mid" but there are more than 7 viable AP mid laners.

wildfox9T2 votes

first off i didn't express my opinion,i just explained what the guy above meant since you asked

can you please elaborate?

if you want my opinion AP items are really weaker than the AD ones (especially if we talk about cost-efficiency) AND give less choices in your build

also most AD items have insteresting actives/passives,things that only few AP items have

but what AP don't get from their items is in their kit as utilities

I'd argue that the reason why you don't see more AD midlaners is that more often then not - unless they're one of the select few who are designed around being played mid lane - they get destroyed by mages.

it's because without some AP damage stacking armor on stuff like Rammus would be a free win

APs usually have more clear wave (at least it's more safe),utilities and CC than the AD ones,and since most of the AP champions are viable only mid if you pick something else you are going for a 4/5 AD team comp which is redundant and you will lack the things i listed above

the other classes viable mid are the ones that counter mages (assassins and some divers),and especially for the first one there are only 2 AD champion designed for laning (others are junglers)

it's kinda like for ADCs and supports,they are needed but (with few exceptions) they can't be played anywhere else but bottom,would you say that marksmans are broken because they are the only class played bot?

Eedat19 votes

there can't physically be more than 4 AD mid laners in top tier because there are only 4 AD mid laners in this game

Oh thats right, if you get kicked out of mid you apparently dont count. "there are only 4 AD mids in the game" LOL fuck no. There are only 4 AD mids left in the game.

Lucian Corki MonkeyKing Gangplank Jayce Pantheon Camille Nocturne Kled

Hell even Darius Garen Fiora Khazix Olaf were played Mid at different points

Marshbouy6 votes

{quoted}

Oh thats right, if you get kicked out of mid you apparently dont count. "there are only 4 AD mids in the game" LOL fuck no. There are only 4 AD mids left in the game.

Lucian Corki MonkeyKing Gangplank Jayce Pantheon Camille Nocturne Kled

Hell even Darius Garen Fiora Khazix Olaf were played Mid at different points

put it better than I could have TBH.

OtterlyLost2 votes

Wasn't there also a time where ADCs, like Ashe, were played specifically mid as well and that changed after people started taking mages mid and they completely shit on ADCs?

There's been all this talk of how ADCs are the only thing that's allowed bot lane but in reality, one of the standing barriers to diversity in this game is just how oppressive mages are midlane. .-. if they were less oppressive in general, ADCs could arguably go mid as well as many other champions.

Eedat13 votes

No, 100% of the AD mids**_ that you've selectively picked_** are viable mid. All the others have been forced out lmao

Lucian Gangplank Jayce Pantheon MonkeyKing Corki Camille apparently dont count because they were kicked out

BestPudgeNA5 votes

{quoted}

No, 100% of the AD mids**_ that you've selectively picked_** are viable mid. All the others have been forced out lmao

Lucian Gangplank Jayce Pantheon MonkeyKing Corki Camille apparently dont count because they were kicked out

When you think a champ with a passive that converts 80% of his damage too magic is an AD champ.

yikes can't believe people upvoted this garbage lol

NemeBro9 votes

[deleted]

BestPudgeNA2 votes

{quoted}

[DELETED CONTENT REMOVED - ULANOPO]

He builds AD because his abilities have mostly AD scaling. But he doesn't do much in terms on his auto attacks, his damage all comes from his abilities he a AP poke mage not a marksman or AD assassins/bruiser.

[REMOVED BY MODERATION - ULANOPO]

saltran5 votes

But he doesn't do much in terms on his auto attacks

LOL

PickleLorde7 votes

10/10 top tier champions as marksman are AD champs.[zombie-brand-mindblown]

TehNACHO3 votes

Kai'Sa and sometimes Kog'Maw disagree.

Ahri Inari2 votes

They are marskmen with the possibility to build ap for mixed damage. I have yet to see a Brand or a syndra.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

You haven't been around when picks like Swain and Heimerdinger were the meta in the bot lane?

Ahri Inari1 votes

I was and I enjoyed the meta. I was able to legit see everything bot.

Chembaron Yamada3 votes

Tbh, I don't understand why people want to see "legit everything bot". No one is asking for the same for the other lanes.

People get bored of just seeing marksmen in bot lane, ok, but why try everything to shove literally every champion in existence in that role? They could simply design champions for the bot lane position which are not marksmen instead. Like they did with other positions, for example Ivern who was designed to be an enchanter played in the jungle. Yet no one demands that Ivern should be able to be an effective top laner.

TehNACHO1 votes

They are marskmen with the possibility to build ap for mixed damage

That's the point.

Ahri Inari1 votes

And that's not what we want.

RyzeTheSmurfMage4 votes

Most of the AP ones are AP assasins...

LeftyRaydy1 votes

First off there is way less AD mid lane champ vs AP in fact I only count 4 statically relevant AD mind laners (Yasuo, Zed, Irelia, and Talon). So mid lane should have mostly AP champs in the line up. Also champs that were issues had some nerfs. Talon, Wukong, item nerfs because of how powerful they were. Now looking into top 10 most played champions in the game all regions all Elos currently is this.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/all

  1. Lee Sin Jungler
  2. Thresh Support
  3. Kai'Sa AD Carry
  4. Yasuo Mid, Top
  5. Miss Fortune AD Carry
  6. Jhin AD Carry
  7. Lucian AD Carry
  8. Jax Jungler, Top
  9. Ezreal AD Carry
  10. Vayne AD Carry

7 out of 10 are AD for most played champs (I excluded Kai sa, Thresh, and Jax as yo are not going to see heave AD itemization on them) but 0 AP champs are in the top 10 played.

Highest Win rates all regions all ranks is https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/all/by-winrate

  1. Sion top 53.1%
  2. Miss Fortune 53.1%
  3. Ahri Mid 53%
  4. Nami 53%
  5. Yorick Top 52.7%
  6. Brand Support/Mid 52.6
  7. Garen Top 52.6
  8. Malzahar Mid 52.5%
  9. Nocturne Jungle 52.5%
  10. Sona Support 52.4%

Nothing particularly special here. OVERLOOKING the fact that there is like 3 relevant mid laners, Overall I believe that Ahri mid is the problem here. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/middle/all

Ahri Mid 11.8% Pick Rate 52.9% Win Rate Yasuo Mid 12.5% Pick Rate 50.1% Win Rate Zed Mid 11.8% Pick Rate 49.2% Win Rate Talon Mid 5.0% Pick Rate 48.7% Win Rate Irelia Mid 5.6% Pick Rate 50.1% Win Rate 11.8 + 12.5 + 11.8 + 5 + 5.6 this is 46-47% of the games have these 5 champs. Excluding Talon and Irelia 35% of games will have Ahri, Zed, or Yasuo. meaning that if Ahri is winning more games they are obviously losing more. So until Ahri is put into a good spot these champs will continue to Ahri making their win rates worse. Anyway this post is mis leading as there are not enough AD mids.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Marshbouy

I'm going to get downvoted to hell for this
Gameplay162 comments
209
votes
WHY DID YOU BUFF XIN
Gameplay145 comments
198
votes
A quick thank you to the people who dodge *those* games.
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous51 comments
193
votes
I played with a jungler who refused to gank, against an illaoi.
Gameplay222 comments
182
votes
Can't wait for the balance shitfest caused by new runes.
Gameplay161 comments
173
votes
So deep terror nami was removed from the arbiter program...
Boards Feedback116 comments
163
votes