Masteries
Items
So...whats going on here?
ChaosThief8 votesActually, the offense tree isn't the only offense tree anymore.
Cunning and... whatever the raw power tree was called, now share parts of being just for power.
Ralanr2 votesTHANK YOU! I feel like everyone is focusing on the ferocity tree as primarily offense. It's not the only offense tree, cunning has offense boosting abilities.
That's what I like about these masteries! They allow more thinking into what you want to build! I'm honestly considering mostly resolve for a lot of my toplane bruisers.
Silents4296 votesThey aren't.
Mana/Mana Regen Buffs.
Stronger Offensive masteries.
The item change costs are irrelevant, the global gold income was increased.
What's changing is Mages are being shifted to kill squishy targets instead of tanks now.
You can't keep focusing strictly on the negative changes.
Cosmic Warper4 votesThey aren't.
Mana/Mana Regen Buffs.
Stronger Offensive masteries.
The item change costs are irrelevant, the global gold income was increased.
What's changing is Mages are being shifted to kill squishy targets instead of tanks now.
You can't keep focusing strictly on the negative changes.
Since when could any mage other than Brand and maybe Azir kill tanks? Tank items now have more MR and Marksmen and fighters have more defensive stats against mages with the oversaturated lifesteal and % damage reduction flying around.
Edit: and malz
Anidan8 votes
Malzahar won't even pretend he won't kill a tank if that tank looks at him funny.
Silents4292 votesSince always?
Did all the complaints of tanks being useless get forgotten already?
Frostguard5 votesExactly what I thought. MR was already in a way too good spot and now it's getting buffed again. Mages will be way worse than Marksmen this past season...
TrickMagnet3 votes...?
with the exception of aegis mr items are incredibly underwhelming, half the time most tank builds are just 3 armor items and maybe merc treads with aegis aura + adaptive armor keeping them around ~100. the only time you see mr items on tanks is if an ap caster on the other team is ungodly fed or the other teams comp straight sucks
Lord Boltrix1 votesMaybe the answer isn't AP nerfs, but making better choices for Magic Resist then?
Why contract when you can expand?
xFrostKnightx2 votesUmm buddy. The upgrade paths for Aegis have 15Mr aura returned.
Also GG for tanks, it's better to be a beefy - 1 tank item - 4 Ad items - "Tank" now.
There's so much Hp % shread, More max hp than you % shread (up to +15% dmg if you have more than 450hp than the Adc or assasin) with a ton of affordable MR and Lifesteal + Damage reduction debuffs on AD items.
Tanks are no longer viable, but you'll have to wait for ADC + anyone using the new items to bend the tank over before they give up trying. The jungle got reworked to be better for Assasins/ADC and worse for AP/Mana junglers, Top has a buff which benefits beefy-bruser champions. Support is the only role which got an indirect buff, having gold item fused into Sightstone upgrades. Giving them 1 slot for anything.
iTaLenTZ1 votesThis pretty much sums it up
Hard Penetrator1 votesTanks might get short end of a stick with very vocal mid and bot lane players. I don't like unkillable tanks with dmg like prenerf sion but 5shotting a tank late game that is pretty much cc bot at 50 mins in sounds really dumb. With juggernaut era riot obviously pumped up bruisers that can do pretty much same things as tanks while having two or three times their dmg.
fééd l0rd4 votesGet over it. Its the circle of live. Something has to be the worst. This season mages were played all the time and now its getting changed.
hhaavviikk31 votesADC has been mandatory ever since season 1
Abyssphere44 votesGet over it. Its the circle of live. Something has to be the worst. This season mages were played all the time and now its getting changed.
Mages were played all the time? They got taken completely out of bot lane and mid lane was assassin central for the first half of the year. Lissandra and Kennen got 15 minutes of fame top lane and since then it's been constant bruisers. Mages haven't been a dominant force at all - even in the second half of the year the """mage meta""" was just Azir and Viktor.
Voluug134 votesNot to mention the completly stupid nerfs to Athene and Morello's made midlane an even worse manaless fest back then.
Yosuke Apperu3 votesJust think about how mundo feels. If everything stays as is he will no longer be played.
Reaper Seijin3 votesGet over it. Its the circle of live. Something has to be the worst. This season mages were played all the time and now its getting changed.
Yeah cause shredding full build tanks as an underfed ADC at latr game isn't entirely broken. Got wrecked by a better player, has to bitch about the champ being broken, right?
fééd l0rd2 votesAnd a few months ago it was different. Someone with just cinderhulk could destroy an adc with his thornmail and grompbuff, like i said - circle of life.
Reaper Seijin3 votesAnd a few months ago it was different. Someone with just cinderhulk could destroy an adc with his thornmail and grompbuff, like i said - circle of life.
That's far from a circle of life, you know why?
ADc's have been shredding tanks for a looooooong time, it never was any different. Mid game and Late game horror always ensued on me, even when ahead, and mostly building HP and Armor, still got shredded in a few seconds.
Circle of life, my butt-cheeks. You're just overly biased, and misinformed, so don't pretend to know any actual facts.
Primaquarius4 votes
RisenDarkKnight4 votesI defintely will run the cunning tree on mages now. It seems way more useful than the offense tree. 5% increased damage to targets below 40% health, 8.4 magic pen (and armor pen), dangerous game, 5% cdr (and extending build to 45% cdr), as well as 180 + 10% of your ap in a ludens proc. The flat magic pen is much, much better than the 7% from the offense tree at killing squishies.
RisenDarkKnight3 votesAP champs are defnitely getting nerfed dont' get me wrong, but it's more because of the items. I think the new masteries are better for mages. (well except for the one that lets you heal off crits, that one is stupid).
xFrostKnightx5 votesWe won't see mages, it's literally <100% gold efficient to even play a mage now. (same for pure tanks)
The reason for all the AP nerfs is because almost all CC champions are AP. What counters squishy champions? CC So this puts more pressure on supports, sustain supports are out. They cannot sustain anymore due to the easily obtained Grevious wounds.
I've been on PBE for a few hours so far and It's better to bring a second damage dealer as support if they've got 1 cc. The gold item fuses into sightstone, so the "support" only has to waste 1 slot instead of 2. It's very possible and highly likely (due to the keystones) that we will enter a support less meta and enter the official Kill lane meta bot.
Before you say "But team so squish", tanks can't kill them anymore because of 12% damage resist, +15% more damage against people with more hp, all the lifesteal buffs and AD items have a ton of survival now along with movement speed boost when orb walking (+ range) to make kiting worse.
RisenDarkKnight1 votesWhat champions do you think will play the "support" role now? Things like pantheon? Or like Ashe?
xFrostKnightx1 votesHigh damage pokes, Example;
- Will become a Must have for that windwall + new items make him wind god.
- Depends if people will use the broken MR-Ad items.
- Might not work for supporting, but he's pretty strong with the new items.
CC Adc; (would have to use coin upgrade into sightstone path)
It's not so much the "Meta" that you will have to wait for this to work. It's literally just the items you can get alone. But this all depends on how well people understand it. Korea will (as always) test this out the same month the patch goes through. Outer towers have gained more "total health" while inhib towers and nexus have lost a ton of "total health" , so they are attempting to "slow down" the buffed adc's tower melting because of the inane early-mid power spike they'll get.
Ralanr2 votesBut...every champion you listed is incredibly gold reliant. I don't think they could use the support items to great effect.
BluePolarizer1 votesJ4 isnt really gold reliant. He can go relic full tank. Same with Kennen, which is why he is played as a pro support. Same with Lee Sin.
Ralanr3 votes3 out of 13. I don't think this helps.
My Waifu Vanilla2 votesTime to bust out the old blitzcrank against these ADC comps. Be warned though. I am a little Rusty.
Axxlon4 votesIt's not just AP.
It's everyone who isn't an ADC.
:))
Owntrolf3 votesthe feels when people say "everyone gets 300 more gold"
Supports 
xFrostKnightx2 votesSupports gain more gold now. Coin gives save gold as the old medalion even without GPS Medalion gives 50% more Gold that the old Medalion gave.
Relic got a flat gold increase across the board
Frostfang got a big gold buff too that it now out scales Relic and is on par with Medalion.
We also can fuse our Gold item into Sightstone, so we gain 1 item slot free. Which is worth 3-4k Gold. We got the better end of the stick because we're in the same lane as the buffed ADC's. Meanwhile Mages/Tanks/AP or Mana Junglers all got nerfed in some way.
xJLx MCHammer2 votesYeah I'm not sure what they think they are doing. Ad champs now have better early game than many mid champions. That's pretty insane. Quite personally, i think it's a huge mistake
Lady Hammerlock2 votesyou forgot they are removing mana pots
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesAnd buffing anyone that bought them with more regen and or base mana (by like 80 iirc for Anivia) I am not sure but that seems like a very beneficial trade for the player. Also if you need mana regeneration so bad then buy a forbidden idol early....it's cost got dropped a lot and still builds into omnomnomicon.
Red Ryu1 votes[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lfNQFjWB,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2015-10-31T19:46:00.097+0000)
And buffing anyone that bought them with more regen and or base mana (by like 80 iirc for Anivia) I am not sure but that seems like a very beneficial trade for the player. Also if you need mana regeneration so bad then buy a forbidden idol early....it's cost got dropped a lot and still builds into omnomnomicon.
I'm not really worried about adcs in top lane.
It's been easy for the most part against them.
Ryvaku2 votesWell at least I can bring more adcs to more lanes. I been bringing Jinx mid and support. xD Tristana top is fun.
UrPalAl2 votesMaybe because ALL the AD items were nerfed? No?
Ok.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesYes the numbers were but the passives are so powerful it MORE than compensates for it. 30% cdr on one item? Go for it man. 12% dr? You bet. MOAR lifesteal? Never have enough. Easy access to absurd critical chance with 0 sacrifice? Of course!
I am all for reducing adc burst and making them sustain damage MONSTERS but they are arguably the tankiest role in the game right now if you do not instantly 1 shot them. Which means playing an assassin that is more or less AD....which lose to marksman midlaners early game now due to range discrepancy and most just having a gap closer.
The Yetii Rider2 votesAegis of the Legion is having its aura nerfed (again) that's why the MR of other items is going up.
yay nibbers2 votesAnd on the other hand:
Masteries
Items
While I think it's a little lame that AP is getting a couple of nerfs, you people are way over-exaggerating it.
Hard Penetrator1 votesI don't know, they wanna shift the meta from mid centric and put some more power into sidelanes perhaps? Although yasuo, zed and talon might have field day.
Skias2 votes[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lfNQFjWB,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2015-10-31T13:39:33.212+0000)
I don't know, they wanna shift the meta from mid centric and put some more power into sidelanes perhaps? Although yasuo, zed and talon might have field day.
Talon is going to be ludicrous with deaths dance and phantom dancer.
BluePolarizer2 votesyou can't afford to build PD as Talon since it gives zero AD and costs 2800 gold with trash components that don't help you snowball. It also doesn't make you tankier since you actually have to auto someone to get the damage reduction, but if Talon can auto someone, he can already 100-0 them. It's getting into range without getting burst down that's hard, not dealing damage when he's actually there.
My Waifu Vanilla2 votesExcept they are pushing more power into the other lanes.....by making adcs the best role in almost every lane right now. I have played multiple games of Graves top and none of them have been fun for the opponent ESPECIALLY if they are melee. Quinn can also simply run the game with any sort of lead from what I have seen since her ganks are incredibly potent if they don't see it coming. Jungle Kog has one of the safest clears out of any ranged champion and can clear relatively fast and out of the two games I played it I got sated by like minute 18 without dragons and just started melting through anyone besides their Yasuo both games since windwall makes AD Koggles sad but anyone else just....died.
Hard Penetrator1 votesLive balance team had drug party and they started a bet who will make weirdest change or something?
At least it is PBE, I hope they will sort everything really fast because I will simply not play this kind of LoL.
SoMNia1 votesAD champions lose the 5% bonus AD mastery, too. More importantly, AD items weren't just buffed. They were rebalanced. Infinity Edge and Essence Reaver each lost 15 AD, and Essence Reaver lost its life steal (can't get health+mana from the same AD item anymore). Other items built from BF Sword lost 5 AD. Many items lost attack speed. Full builds now have less AD, less attack speed, and more crit overall, which makes them less ridiculously fast at taking towers and less effective against Randuin's Omen.
AP items, on the other hand, rather than getting stat reductions, mostly just got price increases. All damage is harder to build. It's just more possible on the high end for AP champs.
As for losing the CDR in the offense tree, well, I guess that's true, if you consider Ferocity the offense tree. Realistically, a mage is going to want either Merciless (damage) or Meditation (mana regen) from the Cunning tree, and it's not a stretch to go from there to Bandit (bonus gold for those more expensive items), Intelligence (+5% CDR, increases CDR cap by the same amount) and any of the Cunning Keystone Masteries. What you're giving up by not going deeper into Ferocity is 7% mpen (Merciless is better for damage) and Deathfire Touch (Thunderlord's Dance is better for burst, and Stormraider's Surge is better for kiting/chasing). Going 18 Cunning doesn't stop you from picking up Sorcery, Feast, Natural Talent, and Oppressor or Bounty Hunter, so you're getting everything you want out of Ferocity anyway, and you still get that CDR (45% cap, too).
So, to answer your question, they're NOT. The context of these changes is important.
Çhåryzård1 votesBecause they've been buffing ad champs and seem to hate ap champs. Ap items have been being nerfed for a while but they haven't really been touching ad items
