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[Preseason] Itemization Feedback Megathread (November 2nd PBE Build)

Pyro··69 votes·6,170 views

This is a feedback piece that will try to address concerns on the whole item ecosystem, but also nitpick some inconsistencies that would otherwise barely deserve their own thread. Warning: wall of text.

Sorry for being a few days late ths year, I've been working on the mastery calculator over the weekend... also, this time I wanted to gather some sizeable firsthand experience on PBE before writing this.

Note: If you don't have access to PBE or don't know the details of the preseason changes, check them out here on LoL Wiki.

#Starting items and Potions

http://i.imgur.com/7mlQBqZ.png

Good changes overall. There are multiple viable combinations, and some neat new options. I'm just not sure if the Health Potion has to be exclusive with Refillable Potion, as that removes the possibility of starting cloth armor + refilling + one health pot. Or maybe that's intentional. You can still start cloth + 4 pots.

  • Doran's Blade still seems like a solid AD starter, good as a fallback option for pretty much anyone.
  • Doran's Ring is definitely nicer with the scaling mana regen. Some champions that considered stacking two will continue to do so, and they will make up for the loss of mana pots.
  • Doran's Shield needs a buff against ranged attacks. Not because it's too weak in top lane - it does its job - but because we need to prevent bullying melee champions in lane by ranged ones. From the looks of it, we will have quite a few marksmen capable of jungling or going midlane - it's high time we allow melee champions to function in duo lane against marksmen. Make it Melee only if we don't want it to be a must have for everyone in 2v2 lanes.
  • Note: I'm not taking into account the minion changes yet. The change to Call for Help might tone down the ranged harass.
  • Let's underline it, though: It's great if marksmen can function outside the duo lane. It's very much not great when nobody but marksmen can function IN duo lane.
  • The Dark Seal will probably see use in low elo on AP assassins, as it curently is with its upgrade Mejai's. Safe laners such as Lux might consider it after Chalice, as they'll still need a stedy source of mana regen.
  • Cull seems underwhelming. It's neither strong early nor efficient late. I think it would be alright if it granted its stats (or part of it) permanently after reaching 100 stacks - it's an effect comparable to a keystone mastery.
  • Alternative: Have it upgrade to a gold-efficient but slot-inefficient item that would be good for comebacks.
  • Idea: When you fall behind in lane, you resort to an efficient item that will not build into anything particularly strong, but it will allow you to survive the lane against an opponent with B. F. Sword, farm up, and possibly make comeback before they finish their BFS upgrade.
  • Example: Avarice Blade = Cull + Long Sword + Dagger + 100 g (1200g); +20 AD, +20% AS, Cull onhit passive, doesn't upgrade into anything

As for potions - they seem alright. Many champions run out of mana, but it can be a good change that forces players to make more conscious decisions - as long as the manaless crowd will be kept in check. Otherwise - hello Yasuo, hello Zed.

  • Refillable Potion is fine and dandy. I'd consider allowing to refill it, or one of its upgrades, in Speed Shrines. Would allow for another level of strategy to jungling, and would encourage mdilaners to pay attention to their jungler.
  • Hunter's Potion is a great replacement for Ranger's Trailblazer and for some champions it provides more healing that you'd ever need. The refilling system is great.
  • Corrupting Potion's effect is barely noticeable, but I've secured a kill or two with the burn. This might actually be a problem - with the Deathfire Touch and now this item there is a significant number of commonly available DoT effects that the player might miss. If anything, this will keep Dangerous Game as a cornerstone mastery. Or encourage people to fight back instead of trying to run away with a sliver of health, which might be a good thing.

One issue with potions is lack of alternative options to Corrupting Potion, without the damage component. Many champions would love a potion dedicated to just surviving the lane against lane bullies like Renekton or harassers like Lulu. This might be either another 500g potion or a more expensive one.

TL;DR suggestions

item 1054 Doran's Shield

  • NEW Unique Passive (Melee Only): Blocks another 6 damage from ranged basic attacks.

As I've said, use this only if the minion changes aren't enough. Just trying to make laning as melee against ranged duo lane possible without being a broken case (Mordekaiser).

(new item) Rampart Potion

  • Recipe: Refilling Potion + 350g
  • Consumes a charge to restore 150 Health and 50 Mana over 12 seconds and grants Unyielding Rampart for the duration. Holds up to 3 charges that refill upon visiting the store.
  • Unyielding Rampart - While out of combat, you regain 1% of your missing health every second.

Or anything that works for "I'm a toplane tank and Riven/Renekton/Lulu is bullying me, I hate my life and I need a drink".

#Jungle

It feels much easier for certain champions, while ones like Sejuani are still slow and vulnerable. Also the recommended items need to get updated, but that much should be obvious.

  • Hunter's Talisman is much weaker than Hunter's Machete. Autoattacking champions LOVE the lifesteal on Machete, and I think you guys have already noticed that fact.
  • Nerfing Machete is not enough, or maybe not even the right way to fix this. Talisman needs a buff.
  • Also, naming convention: try to call it "Hunter's Amulet" or "Hunter's Pendant". Talisman = Talisman of Ascension.
  • Tracker's Knife will probably end up as a must-have in competitive, but I like how restrained in power (2 stacks per recall) it is. Sightstone should still be a possibility.
  • I like the new color on this one, but yellow would have been even better (completes the red-yellow-blue palette, and fits the unchanged yellow Smite). If you guys could only make Devourer gem more distinct from Warrior... Brighter purple/pink would suffice.
  • This might be the time to revert some nerfs to Skirmisher's Sabre. It was already one of the least used upgrades, and the main reason for its nerfs was the abundance of toplaners with Smite.
  • Warrior is probably alright, even though it lacks originality.
  • Some champions would prefer it to be a Dirk upgrade. but that would be too much - Youmuu's is helluva efficient without crit now and 20 arpen on Rengars is more than enough.
  • The main problem here is the powerspike - 475 gold gives 35 AD straight out, creating a huge differential between two junglers with small gold deficit, one having completed the item and the other not. Perhaps giving it AD per level or some other form of unique passive (lifesteal applying to champions, +AD/arpen per enemy champion nearby?) would allow to level this cliff.
  • AD junglers are meant to be strong early, but it would be nice if their item wasn't strictly inferior to other items such as Death's Dance.
  • Runeglaive should be more or less the same - still annoyingly underwhelming on Fiddlesticks or Karthus, but quite decent on the likes of Diana and Elise.
  • Its price is 50g higher than Warrior or Cinderhulk - it should probably be on the same level as Warrior, especially now that it lost some AP.
  • Overall for AP junglers it's the introduction of Hunter's Potion and Hunter's Talisman that matters, as it might give them a potential route of ignoring the Runeglaive altogether.
  • The main problem with the updated Runeglaive (for the optimal users) is that mana regen harshly outmatches health regen. Mana regen from Hunter's Talisman scales nicely, but the health regen does not.
  • Another option would be removing AP from Runeglaive altogether, replacing it with another 10% CDR and health sustain, and dedicating it for early pressure (mostly for assassins). Should be equivalent to Warrior.
  • In that situation, AP junglers like Fiddlesticks and Karthus could get an alternative scaling AP enchantment that would be unattractive to assassins (think stacking AP much like with Devourer).
  • Devourer is a bit cheaper than the rest, but with AS down it should be alright. Devourer champions might actually see play in competitive with the addition of Rift Herald, as it grants 5 stacks on kill.
  • I'd say Cinderhulk is overpriced, but what needs to happen is rather for Sejuani and Sion to get buffed.

TL;DR suggestions

item 3714 Enchantment: Warrior

  • Recipe: Tier 2 item + Warhammer + 300g
  • Total cost: 2450g (down from 2625g)
  • +40 AD (-25), +10% CDR
  • (NEW) Unique Passive: Gain +5 armor penetration per nearby enemy champion

Or, like I've said, anything that would give the item some identity without pushing it overboard.

item 3708 Enchantment: Runeglaive

  • Recipe: Tier 2 item + Sheen + 350g
  • Total cost: 2450g (down from 2675g)
  • +250 mana, +20% CDR (+10)
  • Unique Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, your next basic attack deals 100% base AD + 40% AP (+10 more) bonus magic damage. (1.5 second cooldown). When directly attacking a monster, the bonus dmg is reapplied in an AoE around the target and also restores 8% of your missing health and mana.

(new item) Enchantment: Spiritmaster

  • Recipe: Tier 2 item + Hextech Revolver + 200g (total cost 2450g)
  • +40 AP, +15% spellvamp
  • Unique Passive: Takedowns on champions and large jungle monsters grant 2 AP permanently. Takedowns on epic jungle monsters grant 5 AP permanently. Caps at 60 bonus AP.

If the loss of AP from Runeglaive is causing the outrage of Diana/Ekko players, give it back the AP, but still consider the clause of Fiddlesticks and Karthus.

#Boots

  • I liked the free Homeguards after 20 minutes more. Helps a lot considering the death timers are much longer now. Homeguards is often a gold sink for losing teams desperate to make a defensive play.
  • the death timer changes have been reverted , so maybe it's not needed after all.
  • Boots of Swiftness and Ionian Boots of Lucidity getting down to 800g is a deserved change. Like Mobis, they don't provide statistics essential in all-in trades. I guess this change might have been geared at least partially towards supports.
  • Merc losing half of its Tenacity is painful, but understandable. There's a lot of MR power budget for tanks and fighters in the buffed Malmortius and Banshee.

#ADC Itemization

http://i.imgur.com/fDZqOjb.png

It's quite good, with some minor (or major, time will tell) issues.

  • IE is probably still an item to rush on most carries.
  • Sure, ER became an alternative to it, but instead of allowing for better non-crit builds ER made it "you don't want crit, but you can have your CDR if you buy it". Allowing for good non-crit builds to exist can result in buffing Riven, but there are carries who'd like to go pure AD, like good old Graves or Varus.
  • I'm still not sure about 250% damage being the way to go. Bleed over time, much like on Lord Van Damm's Pillager - or armor penetration - could prove to be a better solution that doesn't swing short trades too much in one side's favour.
  • What makes IE rush particularly obnoxious is the mastery that gives 15% lifesteal on crits. The side getting a lucky crit will be at a huge advantage.
  • Overall AD carries spike as soon as 2 items in. It used to be possible to delay their reign until their third item - they lacked lifesteal or armor penetration component. Now the side completeing IE + another crit item can sustain their health.
  • BT's combine cost is atrocious.
  • Seriously, 1500g is more than a BF Sword now. Just throw in a second Vamp Scepter and we're good.
  • BT should IMO be the third option for carries who want to opt out from crit (onhit builds?) or postpone it greatly.
  • Last Whisper nerf is exactly what we've needed.
  • Tanks will complain about the increased cost of their items, but seriously, this is awesome. It's straight out less armor penetrated at all stages of the game. You need to have 7 times more bonus armor than base armor for the upgraded LW to hurt you more.
  • The passives on its upgrades are great, too - you're either good against health stackers or against high-healing targets, but never both. Definitely a nice opportunity to respond to enemy's build choices. The Grievous Wounds on hit might be too much, though - might need a low-health condition like Morellonomicon.
  • Mercurial Scimitar and Death's Dance are great lifesteal options
  • They might just both outclass Bloodthirster. This again is more of an issue with BT.
  • Scimitar being easy to assemble promotes using it earlier, and makes it a great purchase after core damage items (it used to be either QSS or lifesteal, now you can have both).
  • Scimitar could build out of B. F. Sword or grant only 65 AD and it would still be stronger than before (so: yeah consider nerfing it)
  • Death's Dance will be mostly a fighter item (hello Riven), but also a possible alternative to BT for spell-based ADCs. The only problem here would be a specific subgroup that builds ER, maxes out CDR easily, and then feels like the excess CDR from items such as this one is wasted.
  • Youmuu's Ghostblade is now rather an assassin item
  • It's also helluva expensive, but then again everything is
  • Without the crit the assassination attempts should be more consistent - you should know exactly how much power wil that Rengar instagib provide.
  • Zeal building into Hurricane and Hurricane scaling off crit is cool
  • Some builds will suffer from it (AP Varus, Teemo), so they might need to be revisited later on
  • As for Zeal itself, it could as well build out of Cloak of Agility, as Brawler's Gloves don't build into anything else anymore (on SR)
  • Removal of Brawler's Gloves would go in line with Riot's desire of having no less than 20% crit on champions, making crits more consistent and less "spiky". The only downside would be disabling the ER + Brawler's Gloves start
  • Rapid Firecannon and the new Phantom Dancer are rather solid
  • Firecannon is probably supposed to help some champions take down turrets, but since it's a % increase it will only make safe demolitionists safer, and short-ranged champions will still struggle
  • We're yet to see how it goes, I'm yet to see it in action and apreciate the difference (seen it in game quite a few times, but never seen it work)
  • BotRK nerf is alright and the item needs Lord Dominik's Regards in order to achieve its old onhit power
  • The fighters who used it as their one-item-wonder " BotRK, then tanky" will not be pleased, though, but that's a good sign - the item was becoming obnoxious

TL;DR suggestions

item 3031 Infinity Edge

  • Unique Passive: Your Critical Strike bonus damage against champions is increased by 25% (stacks up to 3 times, lasts 5 seconds).

First crit does 225% damage, second does 250%, third does 275%. You have to be critting on champions, though. If too underwhelming it may stack to 300% - emphasizes the cleanup power, tunes down the poke in lane with lucky crits.

item 3072 The Bloodthirster

  • Recipe: item 1038 B.F. Sword + item 1053 Vampiric Scepter + item 1053 Vampiric Scepter + 600g (total cost unchanged)

Self-explanatory. Without easier build path it will get outclassed by Scimitar and Death's Dance.

item 3086 Zeal

  • Recipe: item 1018 Cloak of Agility + item 1042 Dagger + 100g (total cost unchanged)
  • Brawler's Gloves removed from the game

Likewise. This change is not as needed, but could help to make 20% crit a minimum. If paying 800g for a component is too much, Cloak can cost 600-650g and grant 15% crit again.

Now, here's the elephant in the room. The new item system is basically 2 versions of the same item. Instead of enabling diverse build orders and combinations or interesting effects, it's the same pattern every time:

|Item class|Key component|Secondary component|Optional component|End items|Similar items |-|-|-|-|- |Core|item 1038 B. F. Sword|item 1018 Cloak of Agility|Pickaxe/Warhammer|IE, ER|BT |DPS|item 3086 Zeal|item 1042 Dagger|Kircheis Shard / Recurve Bow|Shiv, Firecannon, PD, Hurricane|Trinity Force, BotRK |Lifesteal|item 1037 Pickaxe|item 1053 Vampiric Scepter|QSS / Warhammer|Mercurial Scimitar, Death's Dance|Ravenous Hydra, BotRK |Armor penetration|item 3035 Last Whisper|item 1036 Long Sword|Giant Slayer / Exec. Calling|Mortal Reminder / Lord Dominik's Regards|Black Cleaver

Notice a pattern? We've got two items with identical item recipe (Zeal + Kircheis Shard) and the rest is equally humdrum. Hell, go back to the components: Serrated Dirk and Caulfield Warhammer are identical in components and price, as well, and the new Jaurim's Fist is just another variation of Phage. And then there's Giant Slayer and Executioner's Calling, both just Long Sword upgrades like Vampiric Scepter.

Why is that a problem? It removes any sort of strategical choices from the item build that are more than one-dimensional. When choosing between Mortal Reminder and Lord Dominik's Regards, you never have to worry about the stats - you just pick the best passive for the situation. The profit and loss account ends at "do I need to shut down healing, or do I need to deal more damage to their meatshields". If the stats were different, it would add another layer to the whole calculation. The choice between Scimitar and Death's Dance is a better example here - the tradeoff is between the QSS active with MR and CDR with the physical spellvamp, so the things to consider is CDR from other sources (if you have ER, you want to drop Death's Dance) and MR (if you have Banshee, Scimitar might be excessive). So those two are fine, and the rest needs to catch up to speed.

A few quick examples on how to differentiate the new items, unless you really sure you don't want them to be different.

http://i.imgur.com/x5sIQHh.png Serrated Dirk

  • Recipe: item 1036 Long Sword + item 1036 Long Sword + item 1036 Long Sword + 250g (total cost up to 1300g from 1100g)
  • +30 AD (+10), passive unchanged

Now the decision is not just "Do I get arpen or CDR" but also "Do I save up for the arpen item, or get the CDR now".

http://i.imgur.com/sXRgRnF.png Phantom Dancer

  • Recipe: item 3086 Zeal + item 1018 Cloak of Agility + 800g (total cost unchanged)
  • +30% AS, +40% crit, passive unchanged

Ye good olde PD. If you want more AS, there's the other Zeal upgrades to choose from. If it's still imperative for PD to have more AS, it can have 20% base and another 20% when the passive triggers. Anwyay, this makes the build paths different: Zeal + Dagger = something that's not PD. Alternative build would be Cloak + 2x Dagger, with old stats as the result (now the passive MS % is not lost with the upgrade).

http://i.imgur.com/EbB1VQ5.png Rapid Firecannon

  • Recipe: item 1037 Pickaxe + item 1018 Cloak of Agility + Kircheis Shard + 375g (total cost up to 2800g from 2500g)
  • +30 AD, +30% AS, +20% crit, passive unchanged

This is the most extreme change that cuts down the number of Zeal upgrades from 5 to 4 - but also, it shakes up the "optimal build order". If you fall behind in lane, and your first back was a Pickaxe while the enemy got a B. F. Sword, now you have the option of combining something that's weaker than ER or IE, but makes use of the popular "medium" components.

http://i.imgur.com/0WZBCht.png Executioner's Calling

  • Recipe: Long Sword + Dagger + 50g (total cost unchanged)
  • +10 AD (-5), +15% AS
  • Unique Passive - Executioner: Physical damage inflicts Grievous Wounds on enemy champions below 50% health for 3 seconds.
  • Mortal Reminder stats changed to +40 AD, +20% AS, with the nerfed Executioner passive

There is no reason to allow ADCs to have permanent Grievous Wounds on their basic attacks. Morellonomicon-esque treatment seems way more fair. Permanent GW wouldn't even be as problematic aganst tanks as it would be in 1v1 duels with the other carry, halving their lifesteal.

http://i.imgur.com/XVImxyg.png Giant Slayer

  • Recipe: Cloak of Agility + 200g (total cost unchanged)
  • +20% critical strike chance (AD removed)
  • Passive unchanged
  • Lord Dominik's Regards stats changed to +30 AD, +20% crit

There, diversity! :D Now you can get to 100% crit in a full build (IE+PD+GS+Firecannon) without having to sacrifice lifesteal or boots (although you have to give up on Mortal Reminder).

#Fighter items

http://i.imgur.com/AWB7p7P.png

This is difficult to assess based on the data I have so far (everyone has been rather picking AD champions over bruisers on PBE).

  • Trinity Force is now geared even more towards AD champions
  • Sheen losing AP is harsh for AP champs, but the CDR is neat
  • Yet to see the change on Jax and Irelia, but I guess nobody will mind them being a bit less obnoxious with it
  • Maw of Malmortius is awesome
  • Viable purchase on fighters and carries alike, but mostly fighters
  • Stacking the flat armor penetration with Ghostblade could be the great return of midlane AD assassins, now stronger than ever against AP champions
  • Wit's End still sucks
  • Seriously, it's inferior to BotRK and Maw of Malmortius by every possible metric
  • It needs to build out of Hexdrinker, QSS or a new Dagger + NMM component
  • If it's priced as a rushable item, it needs to be worth rushing, and Recurve Bow is just throughly underwhelming on fighters
  • At the very very very least it should build out of Negatron Cloak
  • Generally it would be great if it took over as the new one-item wonder for tanky champions
  • Guinsoo's Rageblade will still be a gimmick
  • AP champions (Kayle, Teemo) will look down on the AD it gives
  • AD champions (Jax, Varus, TF) will look down on AP it gives
  • Considering how long does it take to wind up, lowering the total cost of the item would be fine.
  • Black Cleaver might no longer be worth rushing on top laners
  • With 100 health less and costing 500g more, it became a risky purchse
  • Seriously though, pushing the combine cost to 1150g might be overshooting it
  • Please consider lowering the combine cost to 900-1000 while cutting 5-10 AD off it
  • Tiamat change is alright
  • It's cheaper, but the powerspike is less severe now
  • For melee champions, there are now three different ways to upgrade Pickaxe + Vampiric Scepter (Hydra, Scimitar, Death's Dance)
  • One problem here would be that single-target champions like Trundle and Aatrox lose a key item that made up for their lack of waveclear
  • Jaurim's Fist is the return of stacking Warmogs
  • It becomes gold efficient after killing 8 creeps, and is worth 1325 gold when fully stacked
  • Its main strength is building into Sterak's Gage, Frozen Mallet and Titanic Hydra, but there are problems with the upgrades:
  • Sterak's Gage grants less AD than its components until about level 11-12.
  • Frozen Mallet grants less AD than its components
  • Titanic Hydra is exchangeable with Ravenous Hydra for free, even though Ravenous Hydra is worth more gold. Is that intended?

TL;DR suggestions

item 3091 Wit's End

  • Recipe: item 1043 Recurve Bow + item 3140 Quicksilver Sash + 900g (total cost increased to 3200g from 2800g)
  • Stats and passive unchanged
  • Unique Active - Quicksilver: Removes all debuffs and grants 50% Slow Resistance for 3 seconds.

This one would be quite sweet on fighters, would replace the niche left after deleting Zephyr, and would probably also replace the Dervish Blade on Crystal Scar.

http://i.imgur.com/RgcQQdy.png Jaurim's Fist

  • Recipe: item 1036 Long Sword + item 1028 Ruby Crystal + item 1028 Ruby Crystal + 100g (total cost 1250g)
  • +10 AD (-5), +300 health (+150)
  • Passive unchanged

Helps differentiate it from Phage, and, what's more important, allows for the Ruby Crystal + Ruby Crystal start, much more sought after in struggling lanes.

item 3053 Sterak's Gage

  • Recipe: Jaurim's Fist + item 1036 Long Sword + 900g (total cost 2500g)
  • Stats and passive unchanged

Now it doesn't make you lose AD on upgrade, unless you have less than 80 base AD (much less possible).

item 3022 Frozen Mallet

  • With the change to Jaurim, recipe, stats, total cost and passive can be left untouched

item 3748 Titanic Hydra

  • Ditto

Reducing Jaurim Fist's AD by 5 removes the issue of components granting more AD than FM itself. As for Titanic hydra, it does not need to change after the tweak to Jaurim's Fist, but the total cost should probably be adjusted if we want to preserve the free xchange between Titanic Hydra and Ravenous Hydra.

#Mage items

As a mage player I'm actually quite content with the changes so far, both the last AP batch and the current experience on the PBE server. If anything, the wishlist would contain:

  • changing the HG recipe to amp tome + 2x ruby crystal, with stats toned to 20 AP + 300 hp, because now at 765 that combine cost is pretty damn high
  • considering bringing back the Staff of Flowing Water after all, nmaybe with Aether Wisp in the recipe
  • and Lost Chapter, while we're at it, just make the final upgrades use different components - codex, wisp, blasting wand
  • exploring different sources of mana regen (from damage dealt, moving, warding, attacking, visiting speed shrines)
  • adding Faerie Charm to Aether Wisp's recipe (this is just my personal nitpick to make it different from Codex)

Other than that, it's really fine. Not perfect - and definitely could always use some new interesting options - but it's fine. One change you might consider already:

item 3115 Nashor's Tooth

  • Recipe: item 3108 Fiendish Codex + item 1026 Blasting Wand + item 1043 Recurve Bow + 350g

Right now without the Blasting Wand you buy a Codex (800g), sit on 25 AP for a good while, buy only AS, which is quite underwhelming in lane, and suddenly bam, +55 AP outta nowhere when upgrading to Nashor's. Adding a Blasting Wand to the mix fixes that issue. And substituting in Recurve Bow allows to remove Stinger from the game.

#Tank items

Tank items took a huge cost increase, but so did everything.

  • Randuin's Omen and Dead Man's Plate will continue to be reliable defensive options.
  • The abundance of crits even among the caster ADCs might be an incentive to give the crit reduction to more items (basically make a component item that builds into Omen and something else). If we'll see Omen every single game on every tanky champion, it's not a good sign.
  • Thornmail will be extremely useful against heavy on-hit builds (especially Kog'Maw)
  • If you want to please even the biggest whiners, make the recipe Chain Vest + Chain Vest, would help out with the early purchases.
  • Iceborn Gauntlet will be better for tanks without the AP, but assembling it is still a huge pain
  • Just add a Chain Vest to the recipe already, and increase the total cost to 2800 to match Frozen Hearrt
  • The buffs to Banshee's Veil and Spirit Visage are insane
  • Seriously though, 70 MR is the same as Force of Nature. The item that had to be removed because it made the mages' lives miserable.
  • Furthrermore, Banshee still grants less health regen than its components (100% to 150+50% from components).
  • I'd consider lowering HP on SV to 450 and lowering MR on Banshee to 60-65 (while correcting its regen to 200%)
  • Raptor's Cloak and its upgrades will still continue to suck
  • Are you guys afraid of these item ever being viable or what
  • These items are almost useless when behind, and when ahead you're better off building general durability and tanking the damn turret
  • Partially the reason is that early on the % increased health regen doesn't do a thing
  • Also Point Runner is never really noticeable - if you're diving the tower, you're usually doing it with your jungler, and MS does not help as much as simply tanking, bursting, and juggling aggro does
  • All in all, Ohmwrecker and Zz'Rot Portal pale in comparison to the alternatives (Omen, Sunfire, DMP, GA), which will be more slot efficient and will always provide effects in combat that are more than just flat stats

TL;DR suggestions

item 3025 Iceborn Gauntlet

  • Recipe: item 1031 Chain Vest + item 3057 Sheen + item 3024 Glacial Shroud + 50g (total cost increased to 2800g from 2700g)

item 2053 Raptor's Cloak

  • Recipe: item 1029 Cloth Armor + item 1006 Rejuvenation Bead + 100g = 650g
  • +20 armor, +100% health regeneration
  • Unique Passive - Feathershroud: -10% damage taken from Critical Strikes
  • Point Runner removed

Considering the lack of crits in lane (unless it's Yasuo or Gangplank) the item should not be overwhelming or a must-have on everyone. It should scale up into the lategame really nicely, though. Most important part - it's cheap, easily affordable and should help you in surviving the lane.

item 3143 Randuin's Omen

  • Recipe: item 3082 Warden's Mail + item 2053 Raptor's Cloak + item 1011 Giant's Belt + 200g = 3000g
  • +60 armor, +400 health (-50), +100% health regeneration (new)
  • Unique Passive - Feathershroud: -10% damage taken from Critical Strikes
  • Passive and active unchanged

So basically what happens is that now the crit reduction is shared among other items. Health is back down to 400 to account for the gained regen.

item 3056 Ohmwrecker

  • Recipe: item 1031 Chain Vest + item 2053 Raptor's Cloak + item 3067 Kindlegem + 700g = 3000g
  • +60 armor (+10), +400 health (+100), +100% health regeneration (-50), +10% cooldown reduction
  • Unique Passive - Feathershroud: -20% damage taken from Critical Strikes
  • Point Runner removed
  • Active: while the tower is disabled, your first attack to it deals 500 damage

Now the ultimate towerdiving item, with much better durability, also scaling nicely to lategame with significant crit reduction.

item 3512 Zz'Rot Portal

  • Recipe: item 1031 Chain Vest + item 2053 Raptor's Cloak + item 3067 Negatron Cloak + 480g = 2700g
  • +60 armor, +200% health regeneration (+75), +60 magic resistance
  • Unique Passive - Feathershroud: -15% damage taken from Critical Strikes
  • Point Runner removed
  • Active unchanged

If anything I'd consider adding some neat interaction with teammates to Portal, making the structure a "siege camp", or allowing for teammates to click and "channel" on the portal to do something (buff, fast recall). The crit reduction alone makes this item worth considering.

item 3751 Bami's Cinder

  • Recipe: item 1028 Ruby Crystal + item 1028 Ruby Crystal + 300g (total cost unchanged)

Fluff change. Bami is usually the defensive option, and with the changes to potions and wards, tanks would love the option of building Bami's Cinder in an easier way.

#Support

http://i.imgur.com/aoY3Y9c.png

Job well done.

  • Twins combined with FQC solves problems of both items
  • Sightstone upgrades, even if competitively not viable, will surely satisfy the selfish supports who don't really want to build any support items.
  • Why isn't Eye of the Equinox green? The other two are in line with their GP10 base color.
  • The loss of flat MS on the Talisman line might be overkill
  • Rejuvenation Bead and Faerie Charm building into tier 2 items is awesome, especially considering the removal of mana potions
  • The only problem would be that Aether Wisp, designed at first as a support item, now doesn't build into any support item other than Ardent Censer

TL;DR suggestion

give Coin-Medallion-Talisman its 10 MS back, and

item 3050 Zeke's Harbinger

  • Recipe: item 3024 Glacial Shround + item 3113 Aether Wisp + 500g (total cost unchanged)
  • +30 armor, +40 AP (-10), +250 mana, +10% CDR, +5% MS
  • Passive/active unchanged

And tada, Aether Wisp has a second support upgrade.

#The big TL;DR

  1. IE and ER are still powerful rushable items, now easier to assemble with lower BFS cost
  2. The keystone mastery with lifesteal on crit might be a bit too much combined with IE (nerf IE pls)
  3. The Zeal upgrades are all the same thing stat-wise, you just pick one of few available passives
  4. Same goes for the LW upgrades - and the Grievous Wounds on everything is something I can't believe was intended
  5. Fighter items took a hit, sometimes too much (Black Cleaver), but the new options are interesting (Jaurim's Fist)
  6. Mage items are actually (mostly) okay considering the changes to goldstream (more gold from all sources overall)
  7. Tank items need some minor changes
  8. Changes to starting and jungle items are good, just Machete is way stronger than Taisman right now
  9. For the love of God it's been four years and you guys still have no idea what to do with Wit's End or Ohmwrecker

And that would be it, for now. Will be back in a few days if things change.

64 Comments

Mimy7 votes

Pyro, you never cease to please. Thanks for the update!

I love your wits end suggestion!

Even though rageblade and gunblade, are looked down, I'm hoping to try on a few champions in mind and see if I can get some good hybrid stats.

I really Wanna be a hybrid... But it's just not strong enough but they got a bit of a buff so who knows? Kennen Kayle Poppy Teemo I wonder how teemo would fair with AP and AD? buy those hybrid items.. maybe... idk... give that runnans a purpose.. makes his shrooms less obnoxious.. but his E might be devastating if his AA are scaling off Poision AP and AD..

HO MY GOODNESS! These masteries.. OMG..

I'm gonna go hybrid... I need to see how this will work!

I LOVE THESE NEW MASTERIES!

Dear Pyro, Would it be better to get an upgraded sightstone or get FQC and a sigthstone along with my Zekes and Ardent?

Pyro2 votes

First off, Gunblade healing based on pre-mitigation damage like WotA is great news, because as a hybrid champion you will never have both LW and VS in your inventory. Correction: It does not heal you based on raw damage. It's functionally 15% lifesteal and spellvamp, but also accounts for on-hit efects. Furthermore, it has reduced effectiveness only for AoE, but DoTs are fully effective.

With Rageblade, the main problem is that stacking it still takes too long to count on it. I'm all in favour of reducing its cost a bit.

Changes to Hurricane (it builds out of Zeal + Recurve Bow and scales with crit) can be potentially critical to Teemo and Kayle, but I think it's a great chance for caster champions like Varus or Kennen. New Essence Reaver with Hurricane will grant 40% CDR (just two items!). Grab BotRK/BT after that and you're good to go.

RisenDarkKnight2 votes

It is not the same as 15% lifesteal and spellvamp. It is much better than that. Magic damage on hit does not heal you for either lifesteal or spellvamp currently. The new Gunblade will allow teemo, kayle, cho, azir, etc to heal off their on hit magic damage. It isn't necesarrily great on them, but it does allow them to lifesteal in ap as builds which they couldn't before.

Spoofghoul2 votes

Yes this new gunblade + guinsoo are disgusting on kog

yay nibbers7 votes

I still want to know why item 3057 and two of the items it built into had their AP removed. There's a bunch of fighters and other champs that have seemingly random AP scaling on a single ability that benefited even from the relatively minuscule AP it gave, what is even the point of those AP scalings now?

morris12 votes

Rito wanted to make item 3078 an ADC exclusive item by removing ap from it and majorly increasing crit chance. What they didn't realize was Ezreal , Corki and pretty much every bruiser exist that would like the current triforce more and benefit from its stats, and they could itemize for other cdr options, so the new triforce just seems really not worth rushing anymore.

yay nibbers1 votes

Well there's still the 200% base AD spellblade and it's still a stat monster, it just doesn't have AP anymore and that's really disappointing. Also, the crit is up because Zeal's crit is up.

CoolKnightST4 votes

i can agrea on most of them expect item 2053. Point Runner can be usefull as a dive item. The problem just is that in it's current state it can't be utilized. item 3512 was bought a lot actualy. I like the early crit reduction however. So just keep it under the name of a new item that builds into item 3512 & item 3143

To be honnest Point Runner issue is more because it doesn't benefit the lane. I think the best way to ballance Point Runner is to shift it as an effect into higher placed items:

#item 2053

  • Recipe: item 1031 + item 3801 (=1600 g)
  • Builds into: item 3056 (item 2053 + item 3067) & New item (item 2053 + item 1026)

Also let Point Runner scale with armor ;)

Pyro2 votes

Okay, let's put it in a different way:

Unless you're using them to take down towers, Raptor upgrades are just balls of stats. Omen and Sunfire will always be useful in combat, and even after using the active, Omen provides significant AS debuff. Meanwhile, outside of tower-diving situations, the Raptor upgrades do nothing besides providing a barely gold-efficient (or not even that) set of stats that's not really that impressive considering it takes an item slot.

I could see using two different items here, but Raptor Cloak is meant to be a lane item, with Point Runner helping you get back to your lane faster. If anything, I'd consider putting both passives on one item - one useful when towerdiving, one useful when fighting against carries.

Photos of Ghosts2 votes

It's so fun to use Zz'Rot on Singed tho. Gotta go fast. Also try it when your botlae is losing/not being able to push and you're winning on your side. You can't aford to push too much just on that side, so put down a portal to keep the wave away and TP at the other side of the map to help ith an objective. Or just put it down as soon as you approach a turret and you can see everyon far away on the map. It can make the difference between one and two turrets taken off a midgame advantage.

Spoofghoul1 votes

Exactly this, zzrot portal is used to create an extra man on the map, pressure wise, similar to banner of command. You can create about 1 extra players worth of map pressure with it and start out rotating the opponents, the movement speed also helps this, its not a bad item at all as it can llow you to snowball pretty good once you have it, maybe not fight wise but rather through forcing your enemies to deal with the extra push power, allowing your team to go 4 drake whilst pushing toplane and botlane at the same time. stuff like that and you can do more with it like use it instead of a ward if you have none to let allies tp to it, use it as a wall for your vayne to condemn someone into. Give yourself an extra movepseed bosot for chasing/escaping by dropping the active on the ground. Limitless possibilities very very overloaded active :) the movepseed helps with the main purpose of the active, map controll and rotations but has good secondary uses too.

Oshlet1 votes

Point runner has the benefit of getting you back to lane faster, but that's about it.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

Point runner has the benefit of getting you back to lane faster, but that's about it.

It makes diving easy too.

Sightless663 votes

When choosing between Mortal Reminder and Lord Dominik's Regards, you never have to worry about the stats - you just pick the best passive for the situation. The profit and loss account ends at "do I need to shut down healing, or do I need to deal more damage to their meatshields". If the stats were different, it would add another layer to the whole calculation.

The items having similar stats is actually a really good thing for AD carries. It means that when we pick items, we get to choose based on the specific utility and function of the items instead of "which one has the best stats". That's been the problem with AD carry builds for years. There are unique items with diverse functions, but they're always outclassed by the biggest stat stick because at the end of the day the item that gives the highest dps will be the best item. DPS is the key function of the class, so it always takes priority over any other quality on offensive items. That's been true since the start of the game, and nothing that has ever been done in the past has changed that even a little. That's why the items need to have similar stats. I need to be able to pick an item for its unique function without fucking over my damage in the process, or I'll never buy that item.

I agree with a lot of your other suggestions (particularly Grievous Wounds not being so guaranteed on executioner's calling), but it will be ridiculously difficult to put divergent stats on the ADC items without just giving each carry a build that will always be the best just on the nature of the stats. It's time we gave up on that entire concept, acknowledge that DPS will always be king in an ADC build, and let people choose unique items without having to give up DPS as a cost.

Pyro2 votes

There is room for choice with slightly different stats. Yeah, you're getting AD, AS and crit - but you can choose in what amount and in what order.

GW vs Giant Slayer is already a question of situational DPS increase. Adding few more variables to the equation simply adds more depth. It would be nice if there were two builds with same sum of stats, but different combinations of which "slot" does the particular stat come from.

Sightless663 votes

Yeah, you're getting AD, AS and crit - but you can choose in what amount and in what order.

AD, AS and Crit are all just parts of a DPS calculation. It doesn't matter if I'm getting AS or Crit, because they both contribute to DPS and that end number is the only one with real relevance to how strong my autoattacks are. There is a combination which will give the highest DPS, and that will be the best in the vast majority of situations.

Number differences should be done as small balance adjustments only. The items should otherwise have stats as close as possible.

GW vs Giant Slayer is already a question of situational DPS increase

This only works because Grievous Wounds is a purely numerical debuff. I can calculate the exact point at which Giant Slayer becomes better than Grievous Wounds, and vice versa. It's effectively just a straight DPS calculation, just with healing reduced as an additional part of the formula. There are situations where one item will hurt more than another, so one will be purchased over the other. That's all this boils down to.

Adding few more variables to the equation simply adds more depth.

Not if those variables are more important than the other variables, and they are. DPS matters a lot more, so you'll make choices based on it without respect to other qualities, unless the DPS difference is so small (or nonexistent) that it isn't really a choice. If the DPS difference matters, I'll make my decision based on DPS. This choice has historically overwhelmed any choices about unique qualities in ADC items. Making it coexist with unique qualities as an equal choice is unbelievably difficult, to the point of being unrealistic. It's time to just give up on it.

rampaging poet3 votes

Good points all around.

The Zeal upgrades are all the same thing stat-wise, you just pick one of few available passives

I'm pretty sure this is deliberate. The big reason ADC builds were literally the same every game is that they needed all of those stats to function properly. Infinity Edge gave enough damage to start buying crit chance, and Phantom Dancer delivered the attack speed and critical hit chance for the multiplicative scaling to really take off. Runaan's Hurricane in particular is never picked by marksmen despite dealing more DPS if the bolts hit because the damage is spread out and they need high single-target damage to function. The multiplicative scaling of AD x AS x Crit is absolutely required, so any build that can't deliver it is right out.

If the stats of items with diverse passives are too far apart, the passives have to have a huge impact to overcome the missing or suboptimal stats. That makes balancing them awkward. Situational items have to provide an overwhelming advantage in their niche or they'll never see play. By making sure marksmen have multiple sources for the stats they need and keeping the stat totals similar between items, these changes open up actual options to adapt to the game's situation.

Before, auto-attacking marksmen only had build choices in two slots: BotRK vs Bloodthirster and which defensive item to buy. Despite IE being enshrined as the core item, there's more actual choices. Your crit + AS slot has four options instead of just Phantom Dancer (rarely Shiv sell for PD late), Mercurial Scimitar provides an extra choice in your lifesteal slot, and buying Youmuu's for armour penetration is an actual option to punish foes that haven't built armour. With these changes crit carries have options in four of their item slots instead of two. Despite sacrificing diversity in the stats of the items, we haven't lost any diversity in the overall stat bonuses of full builds because there wasn't any to begin with. I'm really looking forward to trying these new items and actually being able to adapt my build based on the state of the game.

Cloud Potato1 votes

Agreed here. While I would have preferred that maxing DPS be made less desirable (so we can get ADCs building defensively once in a while), the preseason changes work quite well for fixing ADC item diversity. Also the OP is amazing.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

"Doran's Ring is definitely nicer with the scaling mana regen. Some champions that considered stacking two will continue to do so, and they will make up for the loss of mana pots."

It's actually worse. A lot of champs don't care as much about mana regen late game and those that do are champs that buy items with mana or mana regen. Making Dorans Ring a percentage is a nerf because you get Dorans Ring for early game, now you can buy two faerie charms for less gold and be able to upgrade them into forbidden idol on your next back for cdr and an eventual Morellonomicon or Chalice for even better mana regen. And given that they're removing mana pots, this is a big nerf to mana regen.

Erockandroll2 votes

A few critiques.

For the mana regen, exceeding health regen for the mage based Jungle items. That's still pretty good when you consider built in sustain. (which includes fiddle, Nid, and the best Jungle mages.)

It's really hard to balance the Melee range matchup. Usually because a Melee's kit is going to be much more powerful when leveled up. (little more so when they are building tanky.) So I would be careful about just putting damage prevention on Melee's VS range. (all though I think the potion changes are a bit of a hit to that.)

I'm not sure about just adding another Vamp scepter to BT. But with the increase of LS options, I would make sure that BT's Over heal effect, make's it stand out a little more. (Not to mention it should also compete as one of the Anti Burst items.

Pyro2 votes

For the mana regen, exceeding health regen for the mage based Jungle items. That's still pretty good when you consider built in sustain. (which includes fiddle, Nid, and the best Jungle mages.)

Yeah, let's forget about all those junglkers without built-in sustain: Sejuani, Nautilus, Amumu, Rammus...

It's really hard to balance the Melee range matchup.

I think Ghostcrawler or some other devs commited one or two big posts on that already. I know it's hard. Doesn't mean we have to give up on it.

I'm not sure about just adding another Vamp scepter to BT. But with the increase of LS options, I would make sure that BT's Over heal effect, make's it stand out a little more. (Not to mention it should also compete as one of the Anti Burst items.

Overheal is the only reason why I didn't rule out BT as inferior to Scimitar by every meaningful metric, and suggested to just make it easier to assemble.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Overheal is the only reason why I didn't rule out BT as inferior to Scimitar by every meaningful metric, and suggested to just make it easier to assemble.

I'm not sure if I would call Scimitar more powerful. The reason for getting it will be the same as before. But what it does is make getting QSS a lot more convenient Earlier in the game. Which will help ADC's deal with large amounts of CC.

My main question is, will people take Scimitar instead of or addition to, another LS item. Cause it seems like LS stacking is becoming more efficient, which will make ADC's better duelists. (Assuming the LS isn't getting stopped by large amounts of Armor.)

Ulquiorra9952 votes

One gripe I really have with this itemisation is Mortal Reminder. Grievous wounds that is both insanely easy to apply and on a item that gives great stats by itself shouldn't be in this game. I'm not saying to remove it, just I feel like there needs to be a condition for it to apply; make it an active, make it trigger below certain %HP as Morellonomicon as the OP suggested or make it trigger every X attacks for reduced duration.

With long-duration GW which is applied and refreshed with every auto attack champions like Swain DrMundo Soraka Aatrox who heavily rely on their sustain will simply phase out of the game.

Rebonack2 votes

I would personally love to see Wit's become a big ticket replacement for Madred's Bloodrazor's old spot.

Have it build out of Recurve, the new Energize daggery item that builds into Shiv and Cannon, and a Negatron Cloak.

Passive the First: Your basic attacks deal 4% of the target's max HP in magic damage. Passive the Second: Moving and attacking builds energy. At 100 stacks, you expend them to steal 25 magic resist from the target and deal (amount) bonus magic damage.

The Soulforged2 votes

Trinity losing ap also is a big nerf to Poppy who sometimes rushes sheen for the trading. Without an extra 10-20 dmg on my abilities, I don't really find rushing sheen to be much of a thing anymore for those who used it well.

MargaretThatcher2 votes

Pyro, don't you think that hurricane will be a MUST buy in a lot of adc? I think you didnt talked too much about the item combos Ashe Caitlyn KogMaw MissFortune Twitch Varus could be extremely strong and opressive thanks to the powerspike that hurricane will provide them with their kits in the teamfights (specially ashe, she could have perma Q all teamfight/laning phase) and a cait headshotting carrys every 2-3 autos seem very scary too. The other carrys may not be too dependant, but i feel that with their on hits/aoe oriented kits its a must buy in a 99% of times What do you think about that?

Edit 1: mf passive has been changed so when she hits a new target it deals bonus dmg

Pyro1 votes

Not really, considering the ADC role is all about consistent single-target DPS. If there is more than one target in ADC's range, hey are in danger of getting collapsed on.

Kog, Varus, maybe Cait and Twitch - yeah, it will be definitely worth considering. But on the rest it will be an option to consider, not something that they must have.

MargaretThatcher1 votes

thanks for the fast repply! You think that with the new items twitch will change his buildpath significantly (ie,hurricane,maybe a pd for safer asasinations) or he will replace the yoummu for other crit change item?

Pyro1 votes

Hurricane is definitely possible. Time will tell. It will be either IE-Hurricane or BotRK-Ghostblade, but I'm not sure what will the third item be in either case.

linkmastr0011 votes

This might get seen by the correct Rioters faster if you posted here: http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback

Pyro2 votes

Already did that (and some Rioters already know to expect it there), but I figured that the broad community might want to get a look as well.

I'm kinda smuggling in few unpopular ideas that go against the current Boards circlejerk: the fact that Last Whisper is getting heavily nerfed and the fact that mage/tank items price increase is due to everyone getting more gold acreoss the board.

VDc0zCqe0w1 votes

Doran's shield singlehandedly makes poke supports unplayable and ranged support worse than tanky ones every time it is even decent, that's the reason they can't buff it.

Cloud Potato1 votes

This, plus it leads to a meta where Supports end up buying less items because they need to start with a Dorans to survive in lane, instead of a gold generator.

SnowFall1 votes

Finally some actually useful feedback and everything seems to make sense. Too bad the Riots will likely ignore this thread as they often do.

g07h4xf001 votes

Tank items need MAJOR CHANGES. Armor already feels worthless to build CURRENTLY, in the juggernaut meta. It's only going to get worse. What about AP items? Mages are getting royally fucked thanks to mana pot removal, item 3156 item 3065 item 3102 buffs, and general AD better itemization.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Tank items are only worthless because the biggest hitters all deal massive amounts of true damage.

Verxint1 votes

So much of this is actually incredibly well thought out and smart.

I actually think Rageblade is pretty good, keep in mind it only needs four autos to stack on melee champions. At the very least, it feels strong on Jax, especially with trinity being nerfed. Combined with gunblade healing for on-hit and the fervor in battle keystone, it's rather good.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

If you have ER, you don't want Death's Dance

Incorrect. Actually, the other way 'round is probably the way it is going to be.

If you already have 30% CdR from ER and another Crit item, you'll want that final 10%. And, considering that you can use healing from all sources of damage if you use your abilities often, ER might be your Lifesteal item of choice.

Plus, what is the alternative for CdR?

Berserker's are better for that 30% AS, compared to Ionians. Trinity Force is cool on some ADCs, but if you want raw AD, you'd rather have IE for the second Crit slot - at least on champions like Varus and Lucian.

Pyro1 votes

I'm sorry - I meant "If you have ER and Triforce". They give 40% CDR together.

The alternative for CDR is Ghostblade. But you're right - if you go for ER, but not Triforce, you will want that final 10%.

DeusVult1 votes

Read the whole thing, but I truly got the urge to upvote when I saw your proposed rework for item 2053.

ATM, it is a VERY conditional item and provides very little stats, especially for taking an item slot, and the items it builds into are also very situational and lack luster

Adding in an item that lessens critical strike damage which then builds into those items means that it would actually be useful, as would those items beyond just only working in 1 situation.

aura trifire1 votes

Pls bring back Zephyr... and maybe trailblazer?

Kitsuki051 votes

things like this should really go onto the pbe forums

CooLTanG1 votes

The change to Call for Help

Probably the best addition to the game, if only they added spells call creep aggro too.

Chaotic Reks1 votes

RIP super gold generating item 3093

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Sooo, it sounds like carries can now out-sustain tanks while 1-shotting everyone else, seems balanced (facepalm). Not to mention tanks in general got screwed again, with the removal of the zephyr & mercury treads being nerfed. I'd rather have the tenacity instead of the magic resist.

Mallory3301 votes

so getting rid of stinger means getting rid of zephyr..? or is that gonna use bow too?

Pyro1 votes

Zephyr is being removed from the game.

Vekkna1 votes

Which starting items will be used for Katarina and Akali andVladimir ? I feel like they've never really had an item that "fit" well for them. Boots +4, Shield +1 , or Amp Tome +1 have always felt a little like making the best of a bad fit.

It just kind of sucks to automatically start at a disadvantage for AP/AD, HP, or both versus Doran's ring and blade.

Greymoore1 votes

Great post and very interesting changes. Sine your a mage player,Have you considered a third mana regen option. For mana regen we have (at least in the solo lanes) item 3165 and item 3174 which make it feel binary. its seems that you need to consider only a few things when buying a mana regen item. If the enemy deals a good amount of magic damage or your playing a champion that is very mana hungry then get item 3174. If the enemy has high amounts of healing then get item 3165. If non of the conditions stated above apply to the enemy, then get item 3165 anyway because it has 20 more AP. I would like to see more diversity in this category.

Pyro1 votes

With the changes to masteries, perhaps it's time to revisit the CDR itemization. Maybe not exactly by using the BMB item Lost Chapter, but exploring new ideas can't hurt.

I mean, assassins just got a decent chunk of CDR on their Lichbane. Meanwhile regular mages can't max out CDR without going both Morello+Athene's, which is for most champions overkill in the mana dept. Not saying that we need better mana-less CDR, that would be too easily abusable by the likes of Katarina and Vlad.

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