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Just as expected, Boards community doesn't understand jack shit about Preseason

Pyro··303 votes·10,995 views

This isn't referring to the previous thread where I predicted the main topics in the Preseason based on my PBE experience. Just looking at what's on the frontpage now.

Riot: The community wants you to know, we want turrets stronger, not weaker.

I don't think they'll change it, seems like they want games to go faster to add Bo3 in LCS. I've gotta admit, though, one of the top answers is actually smart: "I don't mind that they are easier to take down. What needs to happen is that the damage is increased 25-50%. Fiddlesticks can dive turrets since they are so underpowered right now."

All these complaints about Crits, Yasuo, Graves, etc etc were brought to the attention of Riot when the preseaon hit the PBE.

TOOOLD YA. Seriously though, it's time to say it out loud: PBE will never be used for balance. It's just there to make sure new patch doesn't make the game unplayable. Remember the last time when PBE feedback was used to balance a champion? That was release Skarner, because PBE players felt he's not strong enough. Oops.

Congratulations Riot (Yasuo with 100% crit with just item 3087 + item 1018 )

You know what's funny? Even that might just bring his winrate to barely over 50% (he was sitting at a quite low winrate before). That doesn't change the fundamental problem with Yasuo - he's frustrating to play against. It's not like everything CertainlyT touches is a disaster - his Caitlyn rework is great! - but yeah, that's certainly a broken, overly mobile, double-passived (used to be triple!) champion CT is known for. Yasuo needs more systematic changes. First step would be moving one of his passives to W (or recreating them, 10% crit per rank seems reasonable). Or just about anything.

What the actual fuck Riot?

Oh what a descriptive, inviting, totally-not-clickbait title. I'm sure Rioters will be eager to read what's inside, but in case they'r esurprisingly not interested in visiting such a thread, let's take a look... "Mages are useless" - geez, totally didn't see that coming. "Positioning no longer matters, Micro decisions no longer matter, its a constant brawl" - I have trouble seeing how are those two connected; if it's a constant brawl, it's ONLY micro that matters.

Keystones are terrible for AP mids

Deathfire Touch is so strong on DPS mages that I'm genuinely afraid Riot might nerf my Brand. What's funny is the OP's stance on Thunderlord's Decree: "Bonus AoE damage? Huge cooldown for the terrible base damage and AP scaling it has." 180 base damage is "terrible"? Luden's Echo has 100, and with worse scaling.

Thank god Fallout 4 just came out

Somehow I am not surprised with the bandwagon whiners overlapping with Bethesda fanboys. Tolerate the buggy mess of an engine, ignore the "vast as an ocean, shallow as a puddle" writing known from Skyrim, probably jump with joy when they announce paid mods again (mods for PS4, yay!). It takes a specific kind of selective perception to praise F4 as GOTY over The Witcher 3. Pathetic. Move along.

Riot finally addresses 4v5 games with the new minion mechanic

Fun fact: the minion changes are not out yet, they will come in 5.23. Also, lanes autopushing = no freezing and more farm for losing team. But hey, that would be approaching the problem logically, and we don't want that here; we want to insult them until we get what we wants, that's a tactic that works so well in solo queue.

There is no reason to play AP champions anymore

Wait until people stop picking full damage comps and tanks roll out, laughing in the face of full AD teams. Rammus and Malphite are already there.

Why does the winning team need an advantage beyond levels, gold and objectives?

See: the minion autopushing problem. Also, one-sided games need to end in 15-25 minutes, not in 40. Yeah, games might be a bit more snowbally than before, but the goal itself was good. You've enjoyed all those snorefests at Worlds, where after first few kills it was 20 minutes of farming?

deathfire touch is terrible

"Cunning" is not "utility". Burst mages are not supposed to go into Ferocity.

If we want to get through with a message to Riot, right now the message is... Not worth reading. Please contain your vitriol and form your arguments in a way that will be worth paying time to. Otherwise you'll come off as a bunch of angry kids and Rioters will treat your feedback as worthless rant.

235 Comments

J Eevo97 votes

Whether it's angrily or not, the community is doing what it's supposed to do - provide feedback to the changes. As with ALL feedback, it's a mixed bag, some of it is more valid than other but that is for Riot to take into consideration and decide how it'll be handled as they're the one that'll be making changes.

As for the changes - Yeah they're ridiculous, broken, unbalanced and everythin else you can think of - they are supposed to be, it's the preseason, there's a LOT of untested stuff, and we're in a testing phase, balancing will come later.

Don't be angry at players for providing feedback because you don't agree with their opinion, respond to the post and state yours, the people who get paid to balance the game will be the one that balance the game, but feedback should be provided regardless.

Wheatloaf15 votes

I feel like I'm the only one that enjoys this preseason more than everyone abusing Red/Challenging Smite last preseason.

Hyrum Graff7 votes

{quoted}

I feel like I'm the only one that enjoys this preseason more than everyone abusing Red/Challenging Smite last preseason.

Me too.

TDubH4 votes

LOLLOL BUT THE FUNNY PART IS!!! my favorite champions... You know the derpy one that get really out of tune WHENEVER ANYTHING changes, yeah, overall a lot of preseason 5 and 6 and in a way buffs to them,

Warwick: played him before 4.20 play him after, was massively out of tune, and i was happy with my sleeper, until he awoke and then riot nerfed him

Jax: Death fire grasp is hilarious, 50% of my AD 20% of my AP on a hybrid champ who weaves in a bunch of spells with his W and ult? this thing is the FUNNIEST and STRONGEST BS i can pull, THX artifical scalings! unfortunately... riot buffed him recently he'll probably be nerfed ;(

Kuroi8638 votes

There is providing feedback, and then there is just spitting anger and conjecture.

Seriously, been playing since S3 and every few patches people keep claiming that 5 man ADC teams will become the meta and stay the meta til the game dies.

I've got a full AR Malphite page set up just for such a day and I know a number of assassin mains who are dying for someone to try something so dumb.

SelflessTeammate22 votes

Pretty much this. People whine and cry about the changes, but they don't actually follow up with reasons why they dislike these changes. Saying, "I don't like this" and stopping there is not good enough. That's what makes me want to avoid these boards, because threads like those that serve absolutely no purpose or have any merit are upvoted shamelessly, and yet no one says anything of any value. They crack jokes, say things that are irrelevant, and basically avoid the actual issue and believe that's good enough as "feedback". No one states anything to actually debate. It's moronic, and the fact that so few people seem to realize how stupid it is to even think that way is depressing.

This is getting annoying. Make a point or don't, but stop simply crying for the sake of crying until you expect someone to figure out what the problem is for you. It's ridiculous, and degrading just to read and see these threads as "Hot" when they literally have no point to make, just the point itself as both its own reasoning and conclusion.

And, yes, it's the Preseason. Every preseason has this. Every. Single. One. But that's not even the point, it's that no one has a point to make about the changes, just that "I DON'T LIKE THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE BAD".

Leonerdo5 votes

^Yup

Fun fact: During the Nemesis Draft Featured Gamemode (where you picked champs for the enemy team rather than picking your own champs), all ADC teams were statistically the worst by far. Something like 35% winrate. ADCs need protection, whether they are OP or not. Good teams have a mix of CC, tankiness, burst, sustained damage, and utility; ADCs only have sustained damage and maybe one more of those.

Spacesuit Spiff5 votes

Feedback is fine, but its more that people are doing their best to misunderstand so they can panic. Especially "omg its gonna be a whole season of 4 adcs per team wtf is riot thinking???" Thats as dumb as thinking that because youre in a wagon at the beginning of skyrim you'll be stuck in the wagon for the next 4 tES games

Primaquarius44 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

<Awaiting salty rivers to this paragraph of truths>
ChaosThief10 votes

Pass me a bag, I'll join you.

Troll for Trump14 votes

Jokes on you, the salt IS this thread as a whole

Pyro7 votes

True! We're having fun, aren't we?

Troll for Trump5 votes

Part of having fun in LoL is being salty and watching other be salty.

ADepressedLeona32 votes

The entire Borads right now: http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/62496484.jpg

flibitydoo9 votes

I feel like it's not over reaction

it's just the boards being the boards Reddit that's the issue

Popular ideas, no matter how bad they are, will get circlejerked and upvoted to the top, where they will continue to snowball in popularity since they appear to be "the public voice" since they are on the frontpage; even if they are a small minority and even if they are poorly though out ideas.

Rossendale24 votes

I made a thread with maths on the new minion changes, and they're not gonna be that bad at all. You'll barely ever get Enrage and Ironclad unless you're REALLY hard-stomping, and the 10% increase in minion damage is like, 1 point for meele minions and 3 points for caster minions or something. People like to exaggerate things over here.

BluePolarizer5 votes

that sets up huge stacked waves if not taken care of.

Extvia5 votes

Huge waves that you can farm and catch up from the income with. [zombie-brand-clap]

The point is, some people think they can gain a lead and not take risks to keep it from being turned around. Riot is potentially changing that, in turn, causing an indirect comeback mechanic. If you're bad at making those risky plays pay off or think you can play safe after getting ahead, as Sans would say, "You're gonna have a bad time."

okino5 votes

Good right? For people who're behind to farm up and be able to start building up items that'll eventually help them push lane till the minions get a little even on the power.

Earl Eulrich13 votes

the thing is though...if you are already "hardstomping" - why on earth would you need additional advantages to make it failprove in the first place? If you manage to screw up with a 7k+goldlead you deserve to lose the goddamn game.

Verxint14 votes

Because it forces the stomping team to keep stomping

Like OP said... unless you enjoyed all those snore fests at worlds where a team got ahead and then froze 3 lanes for 15 minutes while the jg and sup went around making the absolutely safest play possible.

You can't freeze when your ahead now. There isn't a safe way to maintain your lead, you have to take risks to keep it or the enemy will farm up.

Ratbert4 votes

Gold will let you buy items to keep stomping already, so even if they "need" to keep stomping, how will it be more risky?

Verxint6 votes

Because they have to actively make plays to abuse their gold advantage.

Like did you read my post at all or watch any games at worlds?

The proper things to do with any lead is to be as safe as possible because why not?

Now there is an answer to that why not - because you can't freeze your lanes and your opponents will get free farm on large waves if you don't actively make plays to deny them that opportunity.

Ratbert2 votes

Well you can easily freeze and zone with a gold advantage so that when a wave builds up, you can push to their turret and start poking/dive with jungler.

Stronger minions just means you push to their turret more.

shalexade7 votes

{quoted}

Well you can easily freeze and zone with a gold advantage so that when a wave builds up, you can push to their turret and start poking/dive with jungler.

Stronger minions just means you push to their turret more.

It's like you've got the 1 and the 1, but adding them to 2 is elusive.

How do you "easily freeze" when your stronger minions push to the turret more?

You can't. That's the point.

Ferus and Ferrum4 votes

I will tell you toplane is heavily about knowing when to push and when to freeze. Freezing can be devastating for someone who's just lost a fight. Even if they teleport back then can only get exp because walking up is suicide. A good freeze takes forever to break meanwhile your opponent free-farms without consequence, then if they ever want to roam they simply push up and walk away, and because you have are at such a massive disadvantage in terms of exp and gold you cant stop them.

Fall behind a Nasus and prepare to call your jungler and mid to ruin his cornhole, otherwise you don't get to play League of Legends anymore.

The change means that waves push naturally so you cant be denied for all eternity of gold and exp. It means that instead of starving you, your opponent has to interact with you by either fighting, diving, or roaming. They don't get to win a fight and then stand in front of their minions to deny you 3 waves. This makes them act offensively rather than play safe and free-farm.

The risk is that they will constantly be pushed up towards you, susceptible to ganks and more likely to try and make aggressive dives since they cant just play keep away with the creeps forever.

LastWildWonder13 votes

We need people like you to bring common sense and calm to the boards. To quote The Big Lebowski, "nothing is fucked".

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs] [slayer-jinx-wink]

Pyro7 votes

I'm just adding to the counterweight. I might be poking in the wrong direction, or be wrong with my assessments completely, but from what I've seen here, The angry rants have never changed anything.

Riot already said they're pushing a hotfix next week... with Graves nerfs. No Yasuo nerfs. Yasuo is sitting on 54% winrate. So does Graves, but he's under 50% in Diamond+.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

LastWildWonder8 votes

{quoted}

I'm just adding to the counterweight. I might be poking in the wrong direction, or be wrong with my assessments completely, but from what I've seen here, The angry rants have never changed anything.

Yeah but that counterweight is a goddamn fresh breath of air on these boards. I visit these boards to find logical discussions regarding the game but I have to shift through all the circle-jerks to find them. But now the circle-jerking is so hard that the entire board is white and sticky and I couldn't find any level heads to save my life! Whether you are wrong or not it doesn't matter, you are creating discussion and counter points and I appreciate it so friggen much.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Ultîma13 votes

{quoted} Somehow I am not surprised with the bandwagon whiners overlapping with Bethesda fanboys. Tolerate the buggy mess of an engine, ignore the "vast as an ocean, shallow as a puddle" writing known from Skyrim, probably jump with joy when they announce paid mods again (mods for PS4, yay!). It takes a specific kind of selective perception to praise F4 as GOTY over The Witcher 3. Pathetic. Move along.

Take my +1 you monster, LOL

ProfDrDeath5 votes

Witcher 3 is awesome, I agree.

But, IMO, GOTY goes to Life is Strange.

th3kill2252 votes

I've wanted to pick up life is strange for a while, but I'm afraid that it would start to get stale and repetitive. Is it worth?

ProfDrDeath5 votes

Definitely worth.

It is more like a movie than a game, really. I recommended it for a friend of mine to play with his girlfriend, who is not into games at all.

Melledoneus13 votes

You spelled "Undertale" wrong.

Messaiga10 votes

I'm glad somebody's actually thinking here instead of crying about the preseason. Preseason in general isn't intended to be balanced, it's supposed to lay the foundation for Season 6. I agree a few things are a bit strong right now, but overall I'm actually enjoying the preseason. Games drag on much less and instead if you have a lead you're rewarded more for pushing it further. Gold and objective leads can be thrown fairly easily if your team uses their advantages incorrectly though.

Seriously people, if you're going to complain, at least provide decently thought-out suggestions rather than jerking collectively.

sreggad8 votes

The problem with the community is that for the most part. They do one of two things. 1)Complain about a problem without looking at it in any other view other than what they had before. You know because change is this horrible thing. 2)Complain about something before ever trying it out. Which happens in the PBE a lot. especially at the beginning. People just looks at numbers and say it's bad instead of actually trying to figure out how it works.

Now i'm not saying everyone in the community does this, but the vocal ones on the boards are the ones that do this. Like they complain about DFT being "super bad" but they are just assuming that because ferocity was in the same slot as offensive and has some similar effects as the old offensive. They have to go max in it to be an AP burst mage.

A Liberal7 votes

http://smashboards.com/attachments/salt-gif.37142/

gg git diff5 votes

If there’s one thing Boards is good at, it’s complaining.

Biff Manly4 votes

Why did you post this on NA? Is there something wrong with the EUNE boards, or did they chase you out in an angry mob?

Stars Shaper8 votes

It's called visibility, all the Reds big guys and the majority of the community sits (unfortunally) on NA boards.

Kaipop3 votes

theres tons of oce, euw, eune ppl posting here..

hobomann23 votes

TOOOLD YA. Seriously though, it's time to say it out loud: PBE will never be used for balance. It's just there to make sure new patch doesn't make the game unplayable. Remember the last time when PBE feedback was used to balance a champion? That was release Skarner, because PBE players felt he's not strong enough. Oops.

and look what happens when the PBE is not used to balance a champion,on-release ekko,yasuo,rek'sai,rengar at one time i recall and devourer WW,

Extvia7 votes

And when they did take PBE suggestions, we had the juggernaut incident. Don't go leaving out the bad parts of listening to them just to get your way. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

hobomann22 votes

{quoted}

And when they did take PBE suggestions, we had the juggernaut incident. Don't go leaving out the bad parts of listening to them just to get your way. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

well there not gonna get better by just assuming they did a good on the PBE, they need to learn how to learn

Extvia8 votes

The PBE is only for testing for bugs. Preseason is for putting in new things and adjusting them into being balanced before the season actually hits. Does no one know this? [zombie-brand-mindblown]

ProfDrDeath2 votes

Something concerning towers:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Turret

Looking at the history, you see that tower health actually was buffed on this patch. Outer towers, for example, had 1000 HP and 100 resistances, giving it an effective 2000 HP. Now, outer towers have 3500 HP without resistances.

Could it be that the wiki is actually wrong, and towers had more HP before this patch? Does someone have a picture or old replay to verify old tower healths?

EDIT: Ok, I looked it up. Seems like the Wiki's values are wrong, after all.

Preseason 5 introduced towers at 2000/2500 HP and 100 resistances. 5.5 changes inner towers from 2000 to 2300.

So, a nerf to towers overall...

Earl Eulrich8 votes

well, the important thing here is the armor-change:

previously outer turrets had 2000health and 100armor/mr (->50%dmg reduction), so effectivly you had to deal 4000dmg to kill them. Now they have 3500health and 0armor/mr, so effectivly you need to deal 3500dmg to kill them. That´s a loss of 500 effective hp on outers.

for inners it´s far worse: previously they had 2500hp and 100armor/mr, eo effectivly you needed to deal 5000dmg to kill them Now they have 3500hp and 0armor/mr - so you only need to deal 3500dmg to kill them. That´s a loss of 1500 effective hp!

for inhibitor turrets to make it short: previously 5,6k effective hp, now 4k....a loss of 1,6k effective hp.

So all in all you have to deal 3,6k dmg less to get an open inhibitor now after the changes, meaning they could add a new turret in between the outer and inner of the same tier as those 2 - and you´d still need less dmg than previously to reach the inhibitor.

sp4412 votes

Y'now, you could have done without the potshot at Fallout 4.

Pyro8 votes

I could have done without numerous other unfair statements as well. This post is salty in equal and opposite force to the others.

Doctor Dyment1 votes

Eh, I think Fallout 4 is a really good game. I own it on PS4, and I also own the Witcher 3, and I honestly think Fallout 4 is a better game. There was a real jump between the previous Fallout 3 and New Vegas, and even Skyrim for that matter. The animations, colors, voice acting, and gameplay have all improved. Now granted, the game is a bit harder now, but I enjoy it anyway. I don't know, the fact that you call me pathetic for enjoying a Fallout game more than the Witcher 3 is kind of a douche move.

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