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Bruisers are not the ones to blame

TheDevice··5 votes·1,145 views

Why is conquerers getting nerfed but electrocute gets a pass? Or grasp for that matter? Conquerer champions aren't even doing the best top.

What is wrong with this community? I'm not even blaming Riot lol. The rhetoric is just so utterly batshit crazy. IT MAKES ZERO SENSE.

Tanks are not getting destroyed by bruisers (at least not outside of lane phase). First off, Mundo is the best top laner in the game; USES GRASP and laughs at bruisers with his EZ mode scaling. If anyone is destroying tanks its hard carry fighters and assassins (like MasterYi, XinZhao, Kayn) who are DEMOLISHING them. None of them use conquerers.

ADC's are not getting destroyed by bruisers. Guess who's destroying them!? MID/JUNGLE. Basically Mages, hard carry fighters and assassins, all of whom DO NOT USE CONQUERERS.

EDIT: I did put Yi there, but not only does Yi have a 48% winrate, he's also not a bruiser. Hes just a hypercarry that demolishes every tank with his item 3153 so if you're changing conq just to hurt yi, why not just figure a way to tone down yi's damage. Either way, bruisers aren't really a factor, so dont hurt bruisers by hitting conq.

People don't even listen to reason lol. THATS why this game is doomed.

18 Comments

SithesisLord2 votes

Tanks are not getting destroyed by bruisers.

Except they are. In lane, out of it. Bruisers can just plow through all the resistances tanks build because of Conqueror's true damage.

First off, Mundo is the best top laner in the game; USES GRASP and laughs at bruisers with his EZ mode scaling.

Mundo isn´t a tank though. He's a Bruiser. A Juggernaut, to be precise.

TheDevice1 votes

Except they are. In lane, out of it. Bruisers can just plow through all the resistances tanks build because of Conqueror's true damage.

No, it makes bruisers relevant throughout.

Mundo isn't a tank though. He's a Bruiser.

No he isn't. Nope. Sorry. Mundo is a tank. If Mundo is a bruiser then Graves is a bruiser, Malzahar is a bruiser, Annie is a bruiser, actually anyone I feel like calling a bruiser for the sake an argument is a bruiser.

SithesisLord1 votes

No, it makes bruisers relevant throughout.

Except bruisers were already relevant in SoloQ even pre-Conqueror.

No he isn't. Nope. Sorry. Mundo is a tank. If Mundo is a bruiser then Graves is a bruiser, Malzahar is a bruiser, Annie is a bruiser, actually anyone I feel like calling a bruiser for the sake an argument is a bruiser.

But Graves is a Bruiser.

Bruisers=Fighters=Divers and Juggernauts.

Mundo and Graves are Juggernauts and thus, are Bruisers, although Graves leans more towards the Specialist class due to being part-Marksman.

Just because a champion builds a shit-ton of defense doesn´t mean they´re a tank.

A Cassiopeia with this build item 3001 item 3075 item 3742 item 3065 item 3193 item 3083 is still a Battle Mage, not a tank.

Ralanr1 votes

I agree with everything except Graves being a bruiser. He's still a marksman, albeit a weird one.

TheDevice1 votes

Graves isn't a juggernaut nor a bruiser. He's just a specialist. If he's a bruiser, than anyone who's midly tanky who also does damage is also a bruiser. Again, you just call whatever you want a bruiser to make a point.

I never said anything about builds.

The only way Mundo can ever be a bruiser is if he was half as damage absorbant as he is. The way his kit is, he's just a better olaf. He has early game, mid game, and late game presence. He can carry, tank, dive and do anything he wants. Thats doesn't make him a bruiser, that makes him outdated.

Ralanr1 votes

Well considering the term bruiser is outdated it seems to fit Mundo.

Ralanr1 votes

Mundo doesn't have the CC to function as a tank like Sion or Poppy. His kit is centered around staying alive to deal damage over a long period of time. He just so happens to be more focused on health than any other juggernaut.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

Conqueror is a lesser evil that was made to appear worse by the true damage creep problem/issue that we have going on.

heroikc1 votes

Because Conqueror is keeping tanks benched. No tanks means greater prevalence of assassins.

TheDevice1 votes

It's not because of conquerers though. Its actually not.

Tell me: Which champions are using conquerers? All of what you and everyone else has done is read "true damage" and have placed all the blame on it without doing any real research.

heroikc2 votes

{quoted}

It's not because of conquerers though. Its actually not.

Tell me: Which champions are using conquerers?

Let me clarify; it's the threat of Conqueror. Also, Kled, Fiora, Aatrox, Darius, Yasuo, Riven, Yi, Trynd, just to name a few candidates.

TheDevice1 votes

Beautiful, now look at the WIN% for those

Kled win% = 51%

Fiora win% = 49%

Aatrox win% = 46% (LOLOLO)

Riven win% = 49%

Darius win% = 48%

NONE OF THESE CHAMPIONS ARE IN THE TOP 5 FOR HIGHEST WIN%, KLED ONLY COMES CLOSE.

These are the TOP 5 champions in top lane. THEY DO NOT BUILD CONQUERERS:

QUINN WUKONG GAREN YORICK KAYLE

it's the threat of Conqueror

What does this even mean? Like, the possibility!? Are we actually going to nerf based on "maybe's" and "what if's"?

heroikc2 votes

{quoted}

Beautiful, now look at the WIN% for those

Kled win% = 51%

Fiora win% = 49%

Aatrox win% = 46% (LOLOLO)

Riven win% = 49%

Darius win% = 48%

NONE OF THESE CHAMPIONS ARE IN THE TOP 5 FOR HIGHEST WIN%, KLED ONLY COMES CLOSE.

These are the TOP 5 champions in top lane. THEY DO NOT BUILD CONQUERERS:

QUINN WUKONG GAREN YORICK KAYLE

What does this even mean? Like, the possibility!? Are we actually going to nerf based on "maybe's" and "what if's"?

Well we certainly didn't go for disarming nuclear arms in the SALT treaties with Russia because they are overused or because they grant many victories, but because of the threat of them.

Same concept. It's not the fact they are in the top ranks that make them dangerous to tanks, but the fact they can grab conqueror in response to tanks.

As for the top 5....I wonder how many build that new Infinity Edge and Stormrazor....you know the combo that doesn't rely on actual crit chance to do true damage?

TheDevice1 votes

That analogy is incompatible. "because they are overused or because they grant many victories". They were never used thus never won them victories. Conq IS being used and we can track those victories and its not outstanding. It's not enough to warrant nerfs plain and simple.

I wonder how many build that new Infinity Edge and Stormrazor

What does that have to do with Conquerers or Bruisers? Name a bruiser that uses those items.

heroikc1 votes

{quoted}

That analogy is incompatible. "because they are overused or because they grant many victories". They were never used thus never won them victories. Conq IS being used and we can track those victories and its not outstanding. It's not enough to warrant nerfs plain and simple.

What does that have to do with Conquerers or Bruisers? Name a bruiser that uses those items.

It was the threat of them that prevented WW3 and only restricted the superpowers to engaging in proxy wars. Conqueror stifles tanks and restricts them to blindpick, aram,etc.

And true damage is the answer; it's always true damage that's the issue. Wukong uses Stormrazor, Garen can abuse IE, Quinn uses both, wouldn't surprise me if Kayle would use it too.

TheDevice1 votes

Quinn nor Kayle are bruisers.

Nobody cares about WW3 in this conversation. All you've done is said conq is equivalent to nuclear weapons as if its true. Tanks are still being played, tanks don't even have bad winrates, people who use conq do not have high winrates, so the threat you think is coming from bruisers and conq is misplaced. Conq allows bruisers to be RELEVANT. They can actually hurt tanks now, in and outside of lane. It's far different from them demolishing tanks.

If they removed conq all together, guess what would happen? Bruisers would go back to having ZERO relevance on the game, and tanks would feel as though they can win with impunity AGAIN (in lane). Again, outside of lane they are getting worked by mages, hypercarries and assassins. You just think its conq. You have no actual PROOF its conq if all your doing is looking at "true damage" and saying "too op vs tanks".

Tank players just don't want RESISTANCE. They don't want to feel threatened by bruisers AT ALL. They want to farm in lane forever, win lane, then go and win teamfights and stay completely relevant throughout the entire game while bruisers are never picked because they don't bring the same utility as tanks do.

This isn't even an argument. It's like most "omg so broken" threads. Now that bruisers are RELEVANT, tanks cant get away with playing like shit and still winning because of imbalance. Now that bruisers are relevant, tanks actually have to play smart in lane and can't free farm to victory like they used to.

If you want a real analogy, think of bruisers having been weighed down by ankle weights vs tanks who've had no handicaps. Once Riot removed those weights from bruisers, the spoiled tanks now cry because they cant win those matchups as easy as they could before. So they want nerfs.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

Doesn't Mundo take Conqueror?

TheDevice1 votes

No, he takes Grasp of the Undying.

https://champion.gg/champion/DrMundo/Top?league=platplus

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