Should Offense or Defense have the last word in PvP combat?

Shadow Gilgamesh··1 votes·788 views

So in the games current state, it seems like offense itemization being the last step in the counterplay chain is lending to the problem of Zed/Fizz/etc. being really cancer, but I've also heard horror stories of Mundos and Garens that lasted forever in fights when defense was stronger, so I have to ask: which should have the final say?

As it stands, there's people who build damage, and the counter is building armor/mr, to which the counter is penetration, and the counter to that is (unintuitively) build MORE armor/mr, which is finally countered by Last Whisper and Void Staff which both have high % based uncounterable penetration values separate from the actual armor pen and mag pen. Given that offense already helps you more than defense in terms of game objectives (Examples: who cares that you won a team fight if you don't have the attack power to take towers before the other team is back up; who cares that you can solo dragon if it takes you 5 minutes to do so) it feels like defense of some sort should have the final word in fights, even if you boost health over armor and MR there's Blade of the Ruined King to punish you for trying to build defensively.

So should defense have the final uncounterable items, should it be offense like right now, or should just items that are direct super counters one way or another, such as flat % penetration and % health on hit, be nerfed or removed so that it becomes more about who invests harder?

10 Comments

Kuroi866 votes

Perfect balance I'm afraid is nigh impossible. As such, the last word should go to offense. Now, that said, I do think tank itemization needs a little love, just a little. But we don't need the meta golem coming back. Team fights would erupt, squishies would die, and all that was left was two tanks slapping it out for nearly two minutes. Games dragged on and got dull this way, Riot introduced ways to try and whittle away some of the power of tanks, people didn't pick up on them. Then Riot went and started trying to whittle away at tanks themselves to try and kill the meta golem.
Finally people picked up on the awesome items that Riot has made. The tanks were now double weakened. And now need a little boost back. Nothing major, just little love taps.

BluePolarizer3 votes

Metagolem fights didn't last long - the crit from Atma's and Triforce made sure of that.

Kuroi861 votes

Yeeeah... a lot of tanks didn't bother with those two items. There were some, but not many.

Generalist1 votes

With Garen all things are possible.... Garen

BluePolarizer4 votes

In league, if you replace the ADC of any comp with another ADC, it is usually not gonna be a big deal unless it is an ADC picked for a very specific reason i.e. Sivir with fast push/siege comps.

If LW and void staff were deleted, suddenly, carries start being very distinguished from each other. Wanna pick Graves for early game dominance? K, but if they pick a team with tanky support/jg/top, its gonna be alot harder late game than picking a Vayne or Kog, who naturally shred tanks. Deleting LW and void staff make late game champs much more prominent at their late game task, as well as makes early game champs fall off much harder. That means it makes picks and bans much more impactful, and makes it so that playstyles change ALOT - if you picked Graves or Lucian, you're gonna have to snowball hard, otherwise your damage will fall off. It makes hybrid builds and champs like Jax, Kayle, etc. better because it means that hybrid builds don't fall off as much relative to other builds due to lack of pen. It also opens up another slot for crit for marksmen so that if incredibly fed, any of them can still shred tanks, and squishies, alike.

TehNACHO3 votes

Offense should have the last laugh. Games need to end.

redniwediS3 votes

Personally I believe that they should be even and come down to player skill, situational knowledge, and team focusing rather than offense vs defense. A tank should be able to 1v1 a carry through shear damage soaking and disruption, and as such a carry should require protection, rather than being able to roam and get kills like an assassin.

Sailor Mint1 votes

Soaking damage doesn't require any kind of skill or player interaction. It doesn't matter how good you are at the game, how much damage you can take is solely based on your items. The major difference between a Bronze and a Diamond tank player is how much damage they can avoid by proper positioning and dodging enemy spells.

You should be rewarded for playing your champion right. Landing skills, dodging skillshots and positioning in a way that doesn't leave you vulnerable to getting picked off.

If you are in range of their damage dealers and your team is not in position to punish them, it doesn't matter what champion you're playing and how fed you are, you deserve to die.

Stonington1 votes

I voted for the third just to see the results. I think the question is kinda silly in general.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

I think the game is best when offense and defense both have a say.

Ideally, defense should make a champ last a really long time but shouldn't be killing anything, while offense should make a champ kill others really fast while dieing just as fast, but the strength of penetration makes offense have an overwhelming say over tanks and the amount of free damage on many of the champs who build defense forces penetration to be strong.

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