Thresh is honestly the only champion I don't or wouldn't complain about being in half my games.

MealReadytoEat··15 votes·788 views

Diversity is good and all, but in all honesty most supports either make the game hellish for their opponents, or extremely boring for everyone. Thresh is the epitome of healthy support gameplay.

I'm not mad at my allies when I they pick him, and he doesn't frustrate me to no end when I'm against him. He doesn't nullify any attempt at aggression like Janna does, or brutally grab and fist me like Blitz does, even though he does quite a few things decently.

All his abilities seem rather fair - wind up time on his q without, fairly low range on his flay and no MS boosts to engage without landing his q, and a fairly weak (as far as ults go) but no means useless ult.

He can make plays and set up his team to make plays, but doesn't prevent his opponents from making plays; he keeps lanes interesting and dynamic, rather than a farm sim like Janna and Soraka, or a terrifying nightmare like Blitz. Thresh's abilities all feel good and effective, both alone and for his allies, but are well telegraphed, and he doesn't negate every attempt of his enemies to trade or engage. Perhaps most importantly, he has to put himself at risk by getting in the midst of combat with no defensive steroids or ways to heal to use the majority of his kit. This everyone feel like their choices matter.

He is a jack of all trade yet he still maintains some cool elements like his souls and lantern that add impact and fun without making him over the top. Statistically, he's exactly where I want a high play rate and safe pick to be, just under a 50% win rate across most tiers of play.'

At one point long in the past I was pretty good with ADC thresh, but that died when they made the windup damage charging delayed till after he could have attacked again. I wish that was still in the game, but in all honesty, it wasn't a very important aspect of his kit, just something that made a troll pick slightly more viable.

I myself tend to gravitate toward champions that are either broken in general (Overtunned) or broken in specifics (Snare max first on 5.8-5.11 Ryze) but I do appreciate how balanced and fair he is, even if that's not what I'm looking for myself.

Good work making him both fair AND fun to play with and against Riot.

41 Comments

Penns7 votes

Thresh is the epitome of healthy support gameplay.

Kappa

Gigahappytown6 votes

ye execpt thresh is not a jack of all trades hes a master of everything Hes literally the lee sin of supports

SpartenA79913 votes

GJ RITO, and I can't really ever get mad at a thresh player. The champ revolves around having skill, not keyboard smashing. And lets admit, being a type of "grim reaper" and collecting souls is a really cool experience. Best part is, Mid-Late game, if you walk in the front lines of your team and the enemy starts backing off, now that means you have the fear and respect of the enemy.

Mimy5 votes

Wanna know when I was not happy to see a thresh..

When he was AD and has a support leona...

There was no escaping..

SpartenA79911 votes

Dear lord.....

Mimy2 votes

EXACTLY what we thought when we started feeding him.. Not intentionally but.. kinda hard...

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

GJ RITO, and I can't really ever get mad at a thresh player. The champ revolves around having skill, not keyboard smashing.

If a champ takes skill, he wouldn't appear in every single game. It's simple logic.

Also Thresh has 2.5 skills that directly encourages keyboard mashing to some extent.

SpartenA79912 votes

There is reason to the madness. Thresh takes skill and needs practicing to get good at. Plus he is amazingly fun to play.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

There is reason to the madness. Thresh takes skill and needs practicing to get good at. Plus he is amazingly fun to play.

Every champ takes skill to play, and practice to get good at, unless they are currently in the OP spectrum of the balance map (let's exclude the bottom elo bracket here).

Amazingly fun to play means nothing when it comes to the enjoyment of both sides of the players.

SpartenA79911 votes

So you're saying he is op?

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

So you're saying he is op?

Do the stats and his own history suggest otherwise?

EDIT: If you wanna quote his win rate, please note his gigantic pick rate would skew the win rate quite heavily.

SpartenA79911 votes

I disagree. You're honestly the first person i've heard say thresh is op. Regardless, believe what you want.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree. You're honestly the first person i've heard say thresh is op. Regardless, believe what you want.

You probably weren't using any forum for the past few years.

ninjaIRL 2 votes

The forums are used mainly to dump everyone's salt in when they've had a bad game. Or general complaints.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ninjaIRL ,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lZBkaJhQ,comment-id=000200010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-12T18:37:05.647+0000)

The forums are used mainly to dump everyone's salt in when they've had a bad game. Or general complaints.

There is that other half of the forum where people reason with logic.

ninjaIRL 1 votes

Logic, Charm and Rhetorical Devices which get the other half riled up; bringing them into the bandwagon like a Channel 9 hair product promotional advertisement aimed towards the flocks of the stupid proletarians.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ninjaIRL ,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lZBkaJhQ,comment-id=00020001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-12T19:02:02.241+0000)

Logic, Charm and Rhetorical Devices which get the other half riled up; bringing them into the bandwagon like a Channel 9 hair product promotional advertisement aimed towards the flocks of the stupid proletarians.

I just yesterday or 2 days ago debunked (or not) a somewhat influential (or not) statistical study someone conducted trying to prove that ADCs are UP, so I can see your point on how forums can be a tool to wave people's opinions to your favour through clever use of arguments. It's also not the first time I see a particular statement being met with extreme criticism while a week later another is praised for having the exact same idea.

However assuming that all the logical discussions this forum has had, fall into this particular category of threads would be imo quite silly.

Thresh has been QQ'ed for quite a long time. And in many ways, their tears do appear to have some truth in it.

Zmuecat3 votes

Cannot agree. When one champion is seen a lot, it causes other champions to be pushed out of the role. When Lee Sin was (actually) strong, he pushed out tanks because of their poor early jungle routes (as far as I understand). Because of this, the only champions that were 'allowed' to play were champions who could effectively deal with Lee Sin, or be on equal terms.

This is the same thing with Thresh, but instead of tanks, he pushes out utility and poke supports that aren't named Janna. Janna (and Morg to an extant) only see as much play as they do because they can deal with the large amount of CC tanks bring to a single target by either deinitiating or spellshielding the target so the tank can't apply CC. If tanks were seen less, you'd see more nontank supports, which wouldn't be good for Janna (and I don't think Morg would stand up to constant harass either).

Thresh has been popular since his release pretty much, and while he has seen nerfs it hasn't dropped how much almost EVERYONE favors him. This is not healthy for the role (or game imo), regardless of how okay people are with seeing Thresh all day everyday.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

While I agree with most of your points, I don't think the statistics back him being overpowered, at least in non-pro solo queue.

Lee sin is still the most popular jungler, so he is clearly pushing out other junglers, but we probably agree that he's not really that strong right now.

Thresh and Lee Sin both have a lot of cool moves that feel like they take skill to use, and skill to play around, and I think this is why they maintain their popularity. They are fun to play!

I don't really have the answer on how to fix him being so popular. Lee sin still sees a ton of play even when he's frankly under powered, and I suspect Thresh would as well. Nerfing him would just make him unfair for the rest of his team, while making him less fun to play seems like a pretty silly option.

A small nerf to him would probably be okay, but it wouldn't effect his play rate much, and I mean his win rate is around 49%, while Vayne is even more played with a win rate around 52%, and Jinx around 53%.

Now, Frost Queen's claim could use some pretty significant buffs to make it on par with coin, and that would help poke supports quite a bit.

I also don't see how he pushes out poke supports. He has no sustain, and its much harder for him to engage on them than Blitz or Leona. Nor do I see how if we saw less tanks, we'd see less tank supports. In s2 when tank jungles (and often tops) were the meta, you could afford to have a squishy support and still have a fully functional team.

Zmuecat1 votes

I don't think I deem Thresh overpowered, just overplayed. Like with Lee Sin, item changes or introduction of a new item would fix the issue.

With Lee Sin, Riot introduced Cinderhulk which gave tanks a stronger early game and a late game pay off. This let them see more play, and gave them a means of not being stomped by champions like Lee who could dominate early-mid game with heavy gank pressure. While it was released overtuned (and saw play even in top and, rarely, support roles), it worked wonders.

Support items have something like that, but Riot keeps the blue line in a weaker state because they don't want to see mid laners picking up Frost Queen's Claim, or at least that's my understanding of it. It makes sense, but they've taken no steps in making support items available to supports only unless you pick up a certain summoner, which let's anyone pick up Spellthiefs, Coin, or Targons.

If Riot linked these items to Exhaust or Clairvoyance, or hell, Sightstone (every GOOD support gets this) then they could rebalance the support items for the role, instead of keeping them weak so other lanes don't pick them up. Doing this could bring back poke and sustain supports enough to change up bottom lane, and it would give Riot a means of balancing an entire group of champions down there without having to worry about nerfing 6 of the top 10 played (Thresh, Leona, Blitz, Braum, Alistar, Nautilus) supports.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

I wouldn't like it tied to Exhaust, as it would tie supports to only getting exhaust, while giving midlaners an extra incentive to get it. Its really a pretty good spell on a lot of mids, completely screws melee assassins.

Sight stone wouldn't be a bad idea, although I'm a little unsure how'd they'd implement it. Not let you upgrade to tier 3 trinket till you got one, perhaps?

Zmuecat1 votes

Eh, if you tie it to Sightstone, just give it an extra passive on the final item. Example:

Passive: This item does a thing (Sightstone required to activate).

ninjaIRL 1 votes

I don't think it's wise to compare the win rates of supports and ADCs.

Thresh is popular because he has his theme, ability details and general effectiveness. His lantern lets him save any ADC with little skill involved, however does need a decent amount of co-operation. It's like Yasuo with his windwall, this gives him so much power in teamfights and skirmishes, it's so safe and strong. Kalista has a Thresh lantern pretty much.

Thresh brings great CC chaining by himself, which Blitzcrank doesn't have as much off. Blitzcrank is more of an Assassin in that he pulls targets to his own team to delete. Thresh uses his Q to pull himself to the target half the time so that he can chain CC them with Flay and ult. Blitzcrank doesn't have an easy save the ADC button like Thresh does with his W. Admittedly its shield scaling has been nerfed heavily that it's not used other than collecting souls and pulling allies into fights or into safety.

Thresh takes a lot more skill to use than Blitz or Naut. His Q is far more dodgeable than Naut's massive width and range or Blitz's lighting hook.

Archon X2 votes

Downvoted because you posted this exact same thread yesterday. Come up with something new to say.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

I misspelled the title :(

Mimy2 votes

Honestly As an ADC/support main. I can say going against a thresh is a lot better then going against a leona, or a blitz..

Thresh takes a bit longer to hook you then a blitz and you're not pulled halfway across the lane...

a good thresh is deadly but they're not annoying..

SEKAI2 votes

Diversity is good and all, but in all honesty most supports either make the game hellish for their opponents, or extremely boring for everyone. Thresh is the epitome of healthy support gameplay.

This is your first paragraph, here I simply assume that this is a summary of your thread (or at least the idea of it) as I simply refuse to read any further after skimming through this particular line.

Here are the problems I have with the ideas presented in just those 2 lines quoted above.

  1. Are you saying Supports are not meant to have a strong presence that can pressure and threaten the enemy laners?
  2. Does Thresh NOT make the lane hellish to deal with?
  3. How is the Thresh lane interesting/not boring to play against when you KNOW his kit is superior than almost all Supports in general?
  4. How is it healthy to have him, or any other champ, in basically every single game?
  5. Do you really consider being bullied by instant reward/failure states, overloaded functionalities and extreme safety combined into a champ a sign of healthy gameplay?

How do you even think like this, I really don't understand.

MealReadytoEat3 votes

Please read the rest of the post before asking me to explain the thesis. That's kind of the point of the rest of the page. I'll answer them anyway.

  1. I'd argue that supports need presence to be healthy. Support that DON'T have strong presence do so by negating any attempt at engaging, aggression, and or poke that leads to extremely frustrating or boring game play for the enemy team, and your ADC if they want to do something other than play a farm sim.

  2. Its a matter of degree. Thresh's q is very well telegraphed, so playing against him you feel like you have the opportunity to dodge it. He has no way to engage without it, as he has no MS boost like Blitz, and will take a ton of poke if he tries to get close enough to land anything reliably. Playing against him, you feel like you have options and counter play around him due to these things.

  3. Thresh does many things alright, but few things well. Just because he has a pull, a shield, and a slow doesn't mean he's superior to Blitz and Janna at the same time, just like how Taric doesn't outclass Soraka because he has a heal AND a stun. He keeps lanes interesting by exerting pressure, without being able to negate his opponents pressure or poke through healing or extreme disengage.

  4. Its not really, but he's the least problematic of the super meta picks in my opinion.

  5. I don't see any of these in Thresh, as I address in the page.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

I'd argue that supports need presence to be healthy. Support that DON'T have strong presence do so by negating any attempt at engaging, aggression, and or poke that leads to extremely frustrating or boring game play for the enemy team, and your ADC if they want to do something other than play a farm sim.

Frustrating and boring are subjective. As long as it's not as aggravating to play against like say AP Yi, old LB, former Kassadin or Satan (I jest) there is no reason to reject any play style in particular.

And it's not like it gives people less headaches for playing against Thresh.

Its a matter of degree. Thresh's q is very well telegraphed, so playing against him you feel like you have the opportunity to dodge it. He has no way to engage without it, as he has no MS boost like Blitz, and will take a ton of poke if he tries to get close enough to land anything reliably. Playing against him, you feel like you have options and counter play around him due to these things.

I can agree that Thresh's Q is quite telegraphed.

However his problem lies in him NOT needing his Q to do anything like say Blitz. He could flash ulti, E flip or drag someone in with W to do the initiation instead. What are the drawback he has for keeping all this goodies under his belt? Basically nothing other than standardised support problems.

His advantages do not meet with drawbacks equally, or anywhere near it.

That's a big deal.

Thresh does many things alright, but few things well. Just because he has a pull, a shield, and a slow doesn't mean he's superior to Blitz and Janna at the same time, just like how Taric doesn't outclass Soraka because he has a heal AND a stun. He keeps lanes interesting by exerting pressure, without being able to negate his opponents pressure or poke through healing or extreme disengage.

Taric is not better than Soraka because they have different focus.

Thresh and Blitz have very similar style, while the former builds on top of the latter, hence why Thresh is superior to Blitz most of the time except from some very specific scenarios.

Otherwise refer to the point I just mentioned above on how I find him to be trouble.

ForgottenLuck1 votes

I disagree on you with that though thresh is a jack of all trades it is for that reason I dislike playing against him more than even Blitz or Soraka, I find that both these champions have weaknesses that can be exploited while a good Thresh player always has things covered heck I find him more boring to play vs just cause he also appears way to often but I will say I do like that he does require a set of skill to play with just wish he had a bit more of an open weakness one that could be exploited yet for the moment e has great forms of engage and disengage, a peel, and and even a save with his lantern, in it both being able to give a shield (relatively small though) and a way to close gap's, though this is just my opinion as a sup main who does not like thresh.

Dextix LT1 votes

TL:DR. Everyone shut up and enjoy having a thresh in your every game, fck other supports.

MealReadytoEat2 votes

I mean, he's so much less frustrating than Janna or Blitz. I'd really like to see more Taric and Sona though.

Dextix LT1 votes

No, he is more fritstrating, because hes better than both of them and has even less weaknesses.

MealReadytoEat2 votes

He's winning a noticeably lower percentage of games than either of them, and unlike Janna he actually puts himself at risk, and can be caught.

Dextix LT1 votes

He is winning a lower percentage of games because his player base and pick rate is higher. meaning that there are more people playing him and more room for error.

Unlike janna he puts himself at risk but unlike janna he also has really good offensive capabilities paired with his defensive ones.

Also, both of these champions can be caught, janna isnt immune to that as i have seen many times while playing with thresh against her.

Keevalroy1 votes

Thresh is the epitome of healthy support gameplay.

You lost me.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

Every other support that sees play right now is way less healthy if you ask me, as I address in the post.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

I just hate seeing Thresh in every game and them ending up being annoying because of the Lee Syndrome/Nidalee Syndrome.

And he has only gotten to the generally balanced state he's in because of a lot of nerfing. He was originally made as a champion able to play every role well, which is not good design.

LadyRenly1 votes

Thresh should be the support standard. He is what supports should aspire to be, not second mid lane faux supports like Annie.

stealthfox941 votes

Where is this Thresh QQ coming from?

Dediguise1 votes

I don't find thresh op. I just find players in Silver can't juke. I couldn't tell you how many times I've been an adc or a sup and my lane partner got hooked and the enemy Vayne got a double an snowballed. Because it's always a Vayne isn't it.

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