Zed is picked-or-banned in about 92% of plat+ games

Zero Skill Tank·May 22, 2016·93 votes·18,736 views

Does anyone really think that reducing his Q damage by 10%, and his ult damage by 50-200 is going to fix the problem, considering he is getting COMPENSATED for this nerf?

185 Comments

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 201660 votes

Preface this by saying I am not the designer for the Zed changes, I am simply the playtester who was helping with these changes. So these are my personal opinions, hopefully I can shed a little insight into my logic when giving feedback though.

So I'll talk through the logic, or at least the logic that I gave from a Playtest perspective.

When you hit Zed's Q by any number, but lets use the 10%, you effectively hit multiple areas of the champion. Zed uses his Q for farming, wave clearing, harassing, and all ins. All of this would be reduced by 10%. Since this ability is so core to the champion, any change will affect him very heavily.

Now you may say that Zed deserves to be hit heavily and can use some time in the gutter, but I think a lot of people would prefer to see the champion still be viable if he isn't so frustrating to play against. Especially when you consider that his winrate isn't even that high, it's simply his bantrate that is the problem. This is very subjective though so I can see why people feel he deserves to be weak for a while.

So this is where the change to multiple qs comes in. We are giving Zed players that can execute well some room to still succeed on the champion during all ins, while keeping nerfs on his early wave clear and poke.

It can be easy to dismiss a nerf when the number may seem small to you, but when it affects so much in a kit I would expect it to have a pretty decent impact. Also, I personally don't see -10% as a small number.

~~I'd be happy to stay around and chat if there is anything people would like to discuss.~~ Think I'm gonna head out and be done for the day. Thanks for the discussion guys.

AuryielMay 23, 201638 votes

I think the main point of frustration here is the perception that Zed has almost never been bad while other champions are kept very weak for no good reason

Sorta like how people hate Lee Sin even though he's not that good

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 201628 votes

So this is where opinions can vary a lot, so I can share mine but it honestly doesn't mean any more than anybody elses.

I think it is actually very very good for a champion to never be bad, that should be the goal. A champion that is always great is a little more of a problem because they could be crowding out others, but if they aren't I don't really see it as a problem.

Personally, seeing that the perception is that Lee Sin is still viable even though he has a 45% winrate shows promise that a champion can be playable regardless of how strong they are. If we can allow Zed to still be "good" but allow room for other things to be played, I would call that a roaring success. I would also say that is a better goal than simply putting him in the gutter so nobody can play him.

AuryielMay 23, 201661 votes

Yes, but the balance team does not seem to share this concern for other champions

Hence why people are mad

Slamurai JackMay 23, 201615 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ThEntropist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lX3d8GEN,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2016-05-23T01:14:06.063+0000)

Personally, seeing that the perception is that Lee Sin is still viable even though he has a 45% winrate shows promise that a champion can be playable regardless of how strong they are. If we can allow Zed to still be "good" but allow room for other things to be played, I would call that a roaring success. I would also say that is a better goal than simply putting him in the gutter so nobody can play him.

It's certainly better than the alternative experienced by champions like Sejuani, Skarner, Miss Fortune, Shen, Karthus, Sona, and Ashe, etc, who are all generally considered quite weak by the vast majority of the playerbase whenever they aren't the absolute best champion at their respective roles. Can anyone honestly remember a time where Skarner was considered good but not broken? I can't. Hell, he has a 54% winrate right now and I still bet the majority of the playerbase considers him bad.

One thing is for sure: Riot sure has a serious perception problem on their hands with a number of champions where the perception of their power and their actual power have a severe disconnect from one another. I'm honestly convinced that Zed is precisely one of those champions where his perceived power and actual power are far, far different but his banrate has gotten high enough to force Riot to make changes like these, whether he truly deserves them or not.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 201614 votes

serious perception problem on their hands with a number of champions where the perception of their power and their actual power have a severe disconnect from one another.

I think this is true and will likely remain to be true. I think the problem is when people start saying that a champion IS weak even though they are just perceived as weak. Same goes for the other side of things. I'm curious to know how big of a problem this actually is though.

LankPantsMay 23, 20167 votes

This is not a line of think that I think it's good to go down. If there's a problem with perception then there is, somewhere a root problem. If Lee Sin is consistently complained about and consistently a top pick then there probably is something wrong with him. If people feel like Ashe is weak when she a statistically strong pick then maybe there's an underlying problem with ADCs as a whole.

You can't just ignore these perceptions because underneath all of them there is a problem, it might not be the problem that people are pointing at, but a problem exists.

LatetotheRaceMay 23, 201611 votes

I'm curious why Zed is always a big concern for the balance team. He must always be viable, or he's going to get a buff. Just interesting seeing as how certain champions can fall to 40-42% win rate and not catch their attention.

AMYS GRAVEMay 23, 201623 votes

I think it is actually very very good for a champion to never be bad, that should be the goal.

Sejuani She had her time in the spotlight, we need to let other champions shine. item 3070

Photos of GhostsMay 23, 201613 votes

Sejuani consistencyyyyyy ayyy

ArthimetesMay 23, 201611 votes

The problem isn't truly about his winrate, more-so the fact that on 90% of champions it's completely unfun and borderline infuriating to lane against him, I think you need to hit his E like you did his Q, less damage on the ability and more damage on multi-hit and tbh the Q change is a buff to zed almost 100% of the time past silver ELO.

I'd say hit the E as well the same way you did the Q, have his ult's damage go higher based on how many multi-hits he got while it was active but lower the base amount, and hit the q a liiiiitle harder then he wont be toxic and unfun to play against for most the champion pool, while still rewarding the skilled zeds.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 20167 votes

I would agree that there is frustration in his laning phase. A lot of this nerf and previous nerfs have been around hitting his laning while still allowing him to do Zed things(kill people when he presses R). I do believe there are some real gains here around the Q poke and I would argue that dismissing this change for anything past silver ELO would be a mistake. I would be very surprised if this came across as a buff in any ELO.

As for going harder I can't really say anything satisfying here. I simply don't agree but I can understand the logic behind your statement.

LuggMay 23, 20167 votes

You could honestly nerf ALL of Zed's abilities by 10% and he would still be viable. He is stupid OP at the moment.

majulitoMay 23, 201615 votes

why not remove the bonus ad he get on his w. Does he need more ad for building ad? He's safe, he farms well, and assassinates well how about shaving off that excess power that only makes him more snowbally.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 20168 votes

So this would be a possible solution if we wanted to just lower power. I believe the goal here is supposed to hit frustration more than just making him overall weaker(although the current changelist does make him weaker as well).

Sightless66May 23, 201627 votes

I think a lot of people would prefer to see the champion still be viable if he isn't so frustrating to play against.

That doesn't really get at the heart of it though. I'd be perfectly happy for Zed to remain viable, but I would like for him to spend some time as not a top-tier champion. He's been top-tier for a very long time with only short interludes where he's only average or slightly above-average. That's annoying. It definitely feels like there is an effort to keep Zed above the average level of champion power, there is a reluctance to implement changes that might make him average, and he gets very quick attention in the rare instance where he does end up viable but below-average.

Most importantly, this is NOT true for most other champions. There is a high willingness to leave other champions that get hard hard in the dirt for a long, long time even if they don't have design problems, but Zed doesn't have to deal with that. It is favoritism. There may be good justifications for that favoritism (he is popular and it has been suggested in the past that he is the healthiest assassin, which I tend to agree with), but that doesn't make it any less aggravating.

I'm not suggesting that you should want to make Zed bad, or that any other balance changes should be done right now, but I do want to make it clear that a significant portion of the annoyance with Zed isn't his interactions with other champions, but instead is his favorable spot with the developers. It would help if some less-popular champions could get the kind of attention he gets.

I can see why people feel he deserves to be weak for a while.

I'd rather that champions that become weak would get their problems addressed as quickly as Zed gets his problems addressed. That would actually go a long way towards making Zed's state in the game less aggravating, if only because a bit of that goodwill he gets from the devs would get shared a little.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 20168 votes

Just wanted to say that I appreciate the well thought out response. I can completely get behind how it can come across this way and why it would feel sucky.

SnackieCakesMay 23, 20163 votes

Hey, TheEntropist, has there ever been any testing wherein Zed is given mana? I have personally long defended the idea of manaless or energy based champions, but I do wonder if a Zed with mana would instantly feel less frustrating because his poke/clear/sustain pattern would have a cost. If the concern right now is perception over actual strength (and perception isn't necessarily: I think he's strong; it can also be: I just don't want to play against this pattern), I bet JUST changing him to have mana would solve that problem, if he was still strong.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 20164 votes

It's been talked about, I've never tested it in game though. Would be pretty drastic to me. Could be possible one day, who knows.

DesideriumMay 23, 20168 votes

Have you guys considered completely removing the AD ratio on his ultimate in favor of further buffing the percent damage? I feel like people would find Zed far more fair to play against if the ult does ZERO DAMAGE unless he actually lands his spells, and provides the Zed player more satisfying successes for landing his spells.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 20169 votes

Don't think it would make sense for a champion's ult to do 0 damage. 0.5 is already really low. Like the idea, but sadly thematics sometimes get in the way.

I was thinking of a pitch where Zed's Q amps his ult damage more so he is required to hit Qs to ever have good ult damage, but there would be too many problems with that.

NefasMay 23, 20167 votes

You guys did just release Taliyah, who has an ult with no damage. Just saying, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 20169 votes

It's a bit different when an ult always does 0 damage versus an ult that has an audible pop and animations that signify damage is happening.

Voluug13May 23, 20167 votes

That is easily fixeable though.

Remove the visual/sound effects and replace them for something that visibly grows in intensity the more damage you can do in that time frame, and the pop is flashier the more damage was caused.

Honestly the change could actually separate the mediocre Zeds from the awesome Zeds, also so it doesnt feel like Zed killed you with the base damage + ignite + AAs/BotRK instead of actual abilities like its supposed to.

World EnderMay 23, 201610 votes

What about taking the approach that was done with reworked Shen? Giving him a larger base energy pool and higher costs would punish missed abilities more heavily and tone down repeated all in's slightly. Just a thought.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 201613 votes

Could be interesting. Haven't really heard this one brought up. I'll keep it in mind if we look at Zed again sometime in the future. Might have some promise. Sadly, I can only pitch ideas to designers, they have the final call as to what would work or not.

DesideriumMay 23, 20162 votes

Zed's a skirmisher. He's supposed to have a small energy pool. He wants to use all his spells at once on a priority target and then find some way to back out. He's not meant to have high energy. He needs downtime after assassinations whether they succeed or fail in order to be a balanced champion to play against. Giving him 400 energy, while it will make him less oppressive over long periods during laning, will make him extremely powerful in teamfighting, which is one of his intended weaknesses.

In my opinion, this would be a bad idea to implement.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 20165 votes

I don't want to spend too much time discussing a hypothetical changelist but:

You could make it so that his costs are doubled and the only thing that would actually change is how long it takes for him to get his combos back. There are a lot of different ways to mess with his comboing, having a bigger energy pool isn't always a positive because energy always comes back at the same rate.

bloodmothMay 23, 20165 votes

Yeah i really have to agree with that post, it does seem unfair that riot never wants to outright nerf zed and keep him in game but they have no issues flat out nerfing other champs.

There definitely does seem to be some favoritism going on here, and its really hard to ignore or deny, not saying its a majorly bad thing, as i would much rather zed than talon, akali, rengar or many of the other assassins, but it feels bad when other champs dont receive this level of treatment.

As for zed, would you consider making it harder to land his shuriken by reducing their width? make him throw them vertical rather than horizontal? it really doesnt feel great dodging that skill particularly due to the fact that he fires 2 at once which covers a very large area

One last point, what would be the ideal encounter play out be for players when fighting assassins? For instance, when fighting rengar as adc, your encounter plays something like: See ! above your head, see black screen Similar with talon also Zed i think has a healthier encounter pattern as he gets close to you, hits death mark, you hear a laugh, you dodge shadow clone shuriken while trying to kite him, then have the death mark detonate, dealing damage based on your performance. I think the issue is that during the encounter, its perhaps too hard to actually dodge zeds abilities in the first place. Needing to land 2 shuriken is a good start, but i still feel like if they are still this easy to land the nerf wont really do too much.

My ideal i think would be for an assassin to deal their burst over 2-3 seconds with at least 30% dodgable. champs like talon and akali dont have any part of their combo as dodgable which dramatically increases frustration when playing against them. Also the actual damage dealth should be at most 80% of a marksmans total HP, going 100%-0 in the blink of an eye is never fun for the victim!

SilverclawMay 23, 20168 votes

I'm not a mid lane player, but I play support a lot, so I wanted to give you another side of things on my end. As a support, it is my job to keep my teammates alive (and in several cases, engage as well). When I'm playing against a Zed (and other assassins like Talon, but that's another champion so let's keep this on point), I struggle to peel these assassins. They either have so many mobility tools that my peel seems effectively useless, or they blow up the ADC before I get a chance to react.

I agree that his laning phase is strong - it's too strong, and it always has been. I appreciate the changes to his Q. If he wants to hit you for meaningful damage now, he'll have to hit you with multiple Qs, which means he'll be in range more often to receive return harass, which puts him in more danger.

However, that's not why Zed has recieved near permaban status - it's because Zed has always been balanced around QSS and Zhonya's existing and nullifying his ult (which is somewhat of a false premise anyways, because Zed would buy enough CDR to be able to ult twice in the timing of one of either). Now, with the QSS changes, Zed feels much more unfair to play against. I can rarely do anything about Zed deleting my ADCs aside from using all my shield granting actives and pray that's enough, and they can't do anything about it either. I get that positioning is supposed to be key, but when champions like Zed have a gap closer that is longer than the basic attack range of most of the ADCs, that's not possible.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 201610 votes

Totally feel ya here. These changes are also supposed to make him weaker if he max range Ws and then ults because it will be near impossible to get a 2 shuriken hit. It may not be enough but hopefully it allows a little more room for adcs.

Opinion Zone!!! I'd also just like to mention something that I struggle with a lot. Assassins are frustrating, they are mobile, they kill my important teammates and they can make me feel very helpless. I think this is a part of the game, and if it was removed it would make the game worse. Finally catching the god damn Fizz after he has been hoping all over the map is incredibly rewarding and feels great. There is a balance of course, the trick is finding it.

SilverclawMay 23, 20165 votes

If I sounded like I wanted a way to make assassins useless forever, that's not what I meant to say - assassins are a part of league that need to exist in order to maintain balanced gameplay. I just want something I can do on occasion to protect my team - after all, if I can't protect my team from the members of the enemy team that they require the most help, what am I good for?

If the enemy team has a Rengar, I just don't bother peeling for my ADC when my items are full. My ADC will die before I can do anything about it. If the enemy team has a zed, I'll try and land some CC on him or just pop all my shields, but that's the best I can do.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 20167 votes

Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to imply that's what I thought you were saying. Just wanted to bring up the difficulty of how hard that line is to clearly define.

Totally on board that as a support you should be able to help your teammate when an assassin jumps on them. I would say this is very true for some supports, less true for others.

Let's take Zed: Sona: Can probably just ult him? 1 man ult isn't really that great for Sona so she would be pretty bummed Janna: Knock Zed back, shield, knock Zed up, should overall feel pretty impactfull Soraka: Silence when Zed ults should hit his damage pretty hard. Heals obviously make her feel good about herself

I don't think you are saying to go from one extreme to the other. I would just mention that I feel like there are things that can be done versus Zed right now as a support, and amplifying that would be good, but may have problems.

SilverclawMay 23, 20161 votes

I guess I just don't play the right supports! I like to play Braum, so really the best I can do on him is E block a few shuriken or two, and blow all my shield actives.

But thanks for the conversation either way! It's neat to get a rioter's perspective.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 20168 votes

Ah yeah Braum is a tough one. He is probably pretty sad versus Zed, however with these new changes if you block a shuriken from hitting your adc it will actually be pretty impactful. So Braum should feel a little be more beneficial to his adc/mid.

Always happy to chat. Thanks for taking the time to bring up a different sides of things.

NefasMay 23, 20168 votes

Honestly I don't think your opinion is one many players share. There is a reason assassins so commonly reach permaban status regardless of how Riot sees their power level. They are designed to be binary and to remove choices for the opposing player.

I don't feel incredibly rewarded after killing Fizz. It doesn't feel great. It just feels exhausting. Maybe there is some feeling of relief as well. But I wouldn't say that it makes up for the mountain of frustration that Fizz has been for the rest of the game.

AMYS GRAVEMay 23, 20164 votes

I think this is a part of the game, and if it was removed it would make the game worse.

Bull, anyone who can point to another person and go "you dont get to play league today" doesn't belong in the game. The only thing they are designed to do is cause frustration, and that is the opposite thing that a game should be doing. Games are meant to be fun, and zed et all who can jump in and out without being punished dont facilitate that at all.

Puppet33rMay 23, 20161 votes

Have you guys tried making his single q damage really low, but double and triple hits much more significant. I mean much lower then 10% so that he would have to either hit multiple q's or actually stay in range and auto to make his assassinations work.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 201610 votes

Yeah we have. The problem that I brought up about it was that if you try to balance him around hitting 2 shurikens(which I think is ideal) and you make the first shuriken really weak, it means his third shuriken will be disgustingly strong.

Example:

Live: 235 X 1 = 235 235 X 1.5 = 352.5 235 X 2 = 470
Heavier nerf to base 1 Q but balance at 2 qs 180 X 1 = 180 (55 less than live) 180 X 2 = 360 (7.5 more than live) 180 X 3 = 540 (70 more than live)

So the larger you make the gap between 1 and 2 has a similarly large change on 2 and 3. You could change the functionality of how his Q falls off but it will make it rather confusing and unclean for players. Hopefully this made some sense.

LankPantsMay 23, 20169 votes

Why does this have to be linier? What's wrong with "each shuriken deals 80% of the last shuriken's damage" for total damages of 100%, 80%, 64%? I don't think this is more confusing, it's a fairly intuitive way for it to work.

This way you'd get something like

195 (40 less than live) 195+195x0.8=351 (1.5 less than live) 195+195x0.8+195x0.64=475.8 (5.8 more than live)

This is a solid way of nerfing Zed's single shuriken without changing his double or triple significantly at all. It's also intuitive, it's just each shuriken deals reduced damage rather than additional shurikens deal reduced damage.

MiraweaveMay 23, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ThEntropist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lX3d8GEN,comment-id=000c00070000,timestamp=2016-05-23T02:16:44.708+0000)

Yeah we have. The problem that I brought up about it was that if you try to balance him around hitting 2 shurikens(which I think is ideal) and you make the first shuriken really weak, it means his third shuriken will be disgustingly strong.

Example:

Live: 235 X 1 = 235 235 X 1.5 = 352.5 235 X 2 = 470

Heavier nerf to base 1 Q but balance at 2 qs 180 X 1 = 180 (55 less than live) 180 X 2 = 360 (7.5 more than live) 180 X 3 = 540 (70 more than live)

So the larger you make the gap between 1 and 2 has a similarly large change on 2 and 3. You could change the functionality of how his Q falls off but it will make it rather confusing and unclean for players. Hopefully this made some sense.

That honestly seems OK, though. Since his ult doesn't put a shadow directly behind his target anymore, landing a triple Q isn't that common of an occurrence, and giving him silly damage on it would probably be alright.

AazzlanoMay 23, 20162 votes

One of the most frustrating things about playing vs Zed is that it is incredibly difficult to shut him down in lane. He can safely farm at huge ranges and his csing under tower is perfect because he is AD and his passive as well. Not to mention this, but since his W gives him free % bonus AD, he requires x% less gold to achieve the same statistical result any other champion does for their AD purchases. So even if he is denied a lot of gold (which he really won't be) he still scales perfectly fine into mid game.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 20165 votes

So for the % bonus AD thing it works both ways. He REALLY likes getting AD so if you shut him down he loses more AD than most people would.

Removing it or lowering it has been talked about but it doesn't really solve any frustration points that most players have.

As for him safely farming, that is mainly from his Q and the changes currently in make him slightly worse at picking up farm with his q. Not sure how much it will change things but it is a start.

NefasMay 23, 201611 votes

Zed's safe farming isn't just his Q, I would say it's just as much his passive allowing him to shrug off being shoved in early. He can farm safely in lane and under tower. Most every other assassin at least struggles a bit with early push and farming under tower.

RiotRiot ThEntropistMay 23, 201612 votes

I would argue that there is a difference between safe farming and easy farming.

Zed is not safe autoing under the turret because he is very susceptible to poke from most mid laners. He has easy farming because of his passive, but his safe farming comes from his Q.

NefasMay 23, 201618 votes

Isn't that supposed to be another of Riot's rules of balancing assassins though - that they shouldn't have any easy time in the lane and so present the (usually Mage) opponent with a chance to shut them down because once the assassin hits a power spike the Mage will likely die? Safe farming and easy farming would contradict that.

Or do you think that sort of balancing actually contributes to the binary state where assassins can't really have a healthy power curve?

Sightless66May 23, 20167 votes

I think Riot has actually said the opposite regarding safe farming. They like assassins having a form of waveclear for pushing and at least some safety that allows them to lane, because otherwise the champion has to be balanced 100% around all-inning the opponent whenever possible. That ends up with an Akali-style champion where they all-in hard and they've either been bullied enough to lose and be hopeless, or they haven't and they kill their opponent reliably without giving them much room to respond. By giving them some laning ability, you can balance around scenarios other than "I went all in and either won or lost the lane on one kill".

Zed probably has a bit too much safety, but it still works out better than the very unsafe assassins who just end up snowballing off of cheesy kills or feeding every game.

NefasMay 23, 20162 votes

Entirely possibly I'm not up to date but I guess it feels to me like assassins are still heavily balanced around all-inning and that Zed's farming strengths have always been more of an outlier for the class.

Because when it comes down to it - what else is an assassin going to do but either 100-0 someone or fail to do so? Ekko has some utility and Zed has historically been a split push threat, but other than that most assassins don't really have much to do if they can't kill. Mages can provide utility, ADCs can take towers, but assassins don't have a great fall back pattern as far as I can see.

Sightless66May 23, 20163 votes

I guess it feels to me like assassins are still heavily balanced around all-inning

I'm going to assume that by "all-inning", you are specifically referring to all-inning a lane opponent". They do it more often than most classes, but most have some other options than having to all-in a lane opponent. Zed, Katarina, Diana and Ekko all have some form of ranged farming and waveclear that they can use to farm with some safety, or push and leave so they can go make ganks happen instead of fighting a stronger lane opponent. While they can all-in their opponents, playing safely is not out of the question for them. Zed is a slight outlier in the degree of safety he has, but the presence of safety is not abnormal.

what else is an assassin going to do but either 100-0 someone or fail to do so?

In lane, they will push and leave the lane to gank somebody else. They don't need to take someone in a straight 1v1 fight if they use their high mobility to make things happen on the map. They still can farm, and they get to try to influence the map and catch up with kills on other champions. That is a fallback pattern. It isn't as robust as the fallback patterns of other classes, but that's just inherent to assassins. Zed is no diffferent, and his safe farming fallback is mitigated by a lack of late-game scaling to farm into and a lack of strong gank mechanics like high reliability or a strong initiation CC. When you take those into account, his fallback pattern isn't really out of line with the assassin class.

assassins don't have a great fall back pattern as far as I can see

It's better than having no fallback pattern, and having to rely on not losing to your lane opponent or becoming unable to farm. That's a problem that Akali (and to a lesser degree Talon) fall into, and it's a key factor in Akali being one of the worst designed assassins in the game. She has to be given extremely high reliability abilities to make up for her having no means to come back when she gets behind. Having some kind of fallback, weak as it is, helps to prevent more assassins from being like her and Talon.

Zed annoys me because of his insane popularity, but those two annoy me because their design necessitates that when they get ahead, you have very few options for dealing with them, which is incredibly frustrating to play against. Zed isn't as bad to play against as them. Anything that prevents the rest of the class from being like them is beneficial in my eyes, and that's why I like Riot's policy of allowing assassins some form of safety so they don't have to be incredibly binary.

DesideriumMay 23, 20166 votes

Has the balance team ever considered reverting him to his more fair and less safe state he was in when he was first released?

His R had a shorter untargetability frame, and brought his shadow behind his target instead of behind himself, and he appears in front of them instead of behind them. There was no delay on the swap. And his W had 100 less range but its missile speed was instantaneous. Basically, all these things served to give him a huge amount of in-combat dodgeability and slipperiness, but when he left the area he lost a massive amount of his ability to avoid damage since his R shadow had a range limit on it. Zed, during this state of his history as a champion, had to dedicate himself to a far greater degree than he does now when he wants to kill someone. People never really complained about him, though he was a highly contested pick in the LCS, he wasn't frustrating to play against and wasn't very powerful, and this was back when Bork had an AD ratio on its active. Bork isn't nearly as great as it used to be for him as it is now. So what's your opinion on reverting Zed to his release state?