Ezreal is hotfix worthy atm tbh.

Rexxiee··108 votes·15,267 views

Champ is completely broken bot lane, 22% play rate and 56% win rate and rising.

216 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoir39 votes

We'll be discussing it (along with other balance related issues) early tomorrow once the weekend is over. Ezreal aside, we need to make sure the action we're taking on preseason balance is appropriately aggressive overall.

I nid a leesch2 votes

Dont forget to add Haste into your discussion it makes abilites like nasus w and tryndamere w non excistent by just using 3 spells/attacks which can be pulled off easlisy especially if your champ has an aa reset.

And how ornn is dominating top lane. thnx!

Dont forget about j4!

BeatzBoyFTW4 votes

And how ornn is dominating top lane.

....huh?

I nid a leesch5 votes

ive tried everything against him and i always lose without help, the guy rekts most top laners. When he wins a 1 v 1 against me with trundle then idk anymore. He's like the new malphite winning trades with nothing but base dmg's

Iota Theta3 votes

{quoted}

ive tried everything against him and i always lose without help, the guy rekts most top laners. When he wins a 1 v 1 against me with trundle then idk anymore. He's like the new malphite winning trades with nothing but base dmg's

Don’t stand in the W then. Fight won.

TotalJerk4 votes

Ornn got overbuffed last time he hit the patch notes.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

In my opinion, it's his W. 20% max health damage over just 0.75 seconds and additionally 10% max health damage on AA afterwards (level 9).

This is alot and getting out of reach of his W in time isn't that easy if you don't use a dash.

He can build pure tank and still delete 1/3 of your healthbar with that skill alone. When it was current health, it wasn't as bad, since the damage decreased the longer the fight was going.

Jasiwel2 votes

His W definitely deals too much damage for a champion that doesn't even need to bolster it with AP Ratios, and is supposed to be a Super Tank. It's also on a comparatively low Cooldown given its damage potential.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Also Haste makes it so that Tahm Kench can run at full speed with enemies in his belly.

I nid a leesch2 votes

WP now i know what to abuse.

Serika Zero3 votes

item 3071 x5 on any AD champion such as: Zed, Talon, wu kong, etc. Only requirement is to take sorcery as secondary tree and take the mastery that makes your extra CDR go into dmg.

Håppy41 votes

Please make sure you look at EZREAL and not the keystone he's abusing. It's not the keystone that's the problem, similar to how Elder Lizard, Runeglaive, and Iceborn weren't the problem.

Final Spark Lux40 votes

You can't deny the fact that the keystone could potentially be a little overtuned with the amount of consumables it gives you.

MonkeyMadness20 votes

But what other champs have the ability to proc it so consistently?

Votable Jester21 votes

Gangplank

MonkeyMadness7 votes

True, but he can't do it nearly at the same range.

statelesskiller11 votes

but i would argue its more reliable, and his speedup makes up for the lack of range

DarkRitual5 votes

Also being point and click helps a lot with reliability.

SamBunzly1 votes

Try AP Sona :/ BichLane poke and free gold/hp/ward/random potion? Uhh, thank you~

Chembaron Yamada2 votes

Bichlane xD this is a genius name.

Final Spark Lux7 votes

Maybe none as consistent as ez, but even without using it every 2 seconds, it gives you a good amount of stuff. That being said, that's the reason why it feels so fun to use. The problem is if you nerf the keystone, it ruins it for everyone, and if you nerf Ez, he becomes that much more reliant on this keystone to make up for whatever the nerf did to him.

I have a couple ideas, though I'm not actually sure what is causing Ez to be so prevalent when using Kleptomancy; the gold, or the consumables? The ideas here are to keep the satisfaction you get while using kleptomancy, without making it weak to the point where nobody wants to take it. Kleptomancy as far as I'm concerned is pretty decent on supports for their income, so I avoided nerfing income

Idea 1.

  • Increase the rate of gold drops, but decrease the gold earned for every drop
  • Decrease the rate of random consumable drops to compensate for the increase gold drops

This would keep the satisfaction you get from using this keystone in tact; it would just shift the power gained from the various potions / elixirs you get into more frequent gold drops, however the gold they grant would be toned down to match the higher frequency of drops. If gold is causing the problem on Ez, this wouldn't fix it; but I feel like the consumables are the real problem here with the amount of power they give at the frequency he can proc it.

Idea 2.

  • Reduce the rate of overall drops

The problem with this idea is the fact that it hurts everyone, and is extremely unsatisfying to use at this point. The reason so many people like this keystone is because of the thrill you get when you receive a random consumable just from trading with your enemy, regardless what it ends up being.

Idea 3.

  • Add an internal timer to prevent overuse

Perhaps one of the most straightforward; short, simple, and to the point. It would be exactly the same; people would still be satisfied to use it, and it wouldn't change the rate of drops for 90% of champions (since some champions (EZREAL) can proc it -really- often). It would just tone down the few champions that are abusing it.

Idea 4.

  • Add a per champion cooldown to it.

This is sort of like idea 3, however it's changed to a cooldown thats sort of like Braum's passive on enemy champions, or Yasuo's dash on minions. This means that there are moments that you can still proc it multiple times in rapid succession, but it would tone down spam overall; or at the very least encourage you to change your focus to a different target if your goal is procing the keystone. I think this would feel more consistant than idea 3, since you can still proc it multiple times in a matter of a few seconds, but the change would still restrict you from procing it every 2 seconds.

Idea 5.

  • Remove Ezreal's ability to proc kleptomancy fully on Q

I'm not suggesting we remove his ability to proc on hit things; just remove the interaction between his Q and kleptomancy. Let his Q count as the spellcast, but still require him to actually go in and auto attack, forcing him to risk being traded with in lieu of a chance to receive gold / consumables. Everything else would be the same. I don't believe the problem is the frequency at which he gets things, as much as it is the frequency he gets things while being completely safe. There's no risk involved in Ezreal using this keystone like their should be, which I think is a big contributing factor to why he's able to abuse kleptomancy so well.

If you've read through all of this, I applaud your patience. Let me know what you think, or if you have any ideas. I had a lot of fun formatting this :D

Glory ln Death1 votes

What if they made it only give gold on use (or maybe only give the random gold sacks), and you had the consumables available in the shop, instead of as drops. So you could purchase mana potions, green wards, mini elixirs (not the skill point one), etc, but only at the shop. No random mana potion to suddenly be able to stay in lane, etc.

Final Spark Lux4 votes

The issue with this is the fact that all the satisfaction of using this keystone would be gone. Not to say certain people wouldn't take it, but a big reason why it's so popular is because it's so thrilling when you do get a random consumable in lane just for doing your job and trading with the enemy. Making things available in the shop feels lackluster, and turns into a money drain, where your gold could be spent on something else; and at that point, it becomes pointless to take the keystone just for a little extra gold.

The goal is to keep the high satisfaction of the keystone while tuning it so certain champions can't abuse it here. When someone chooses to go the kleptomancy route, they're sacrificing a lot of raw power, but the consumables are what make up for the sacrifice. It's basically trading damage for lanestay, with the occasional elixir to help just a bit to even things out. Removing consumable drops directly to the champion would be a pretty big mistake imo.

Oleandervine3 votes

The keystone is the problem because prior to it's release, Ezreal wasn't destroying everything. Ezreal getting massive access to mana potions (fixes his mana issues) and excess gold (because ADCs LOVE GOLD) is the problem with Kleptomancy, because it's dropping Ezreal's down time significantly, plus he can proc the keystone with too much ease. The fact that some of his spells actually double as extended autoattacks is very core to his kit, so they can't touch that without brutalizing him. They need to fix the keystone here, and not Ezreal, because he's not a problem until the keystone is involved.

Penta Penguin7 votes

Ezreal has always been the problem

Håppy15 votes

Ezreal has broken almost every interesting, unique addition League has received and instead of looking at the champion, it's always been the item/keystone that gets nerfed. When Runeglaive was around, Ezreal abused it horribly and had it taken away from EVERYONE. Iceborn Gauntlet received a nerf after Blue Ezreal became so overwhelmingly strong and what did Ezreal get? Nothing, other than the ability to just go back to what he was doing before. When Spirit of the Elder Lizard was around applying a Red buff effect on autoattacks.. guess who abused that? Yeah, Ezreal. I realize I'm just repeating what points I made in the post that got you to reply, but they're the biggest offenders. He just gets a free pass whenever something comes along. In another thread, I read a term that I'm fond of - The Ezreal Test. Does it make Ezreal overpowered? Yes? Okay, get rid of it. Don't touch him, he's the perfect child. Always hit the other part of the equation..

Jefftiffy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Lolis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lMpic4IU,comment-id=000c000100010002,timestamp=2017-11-13T06:10:38.824+0000)

Ezreal has broken almost every interesting, unique addition League has received and instead of looking at the champion, it's always been the item/keystone that gets nerfed. When Runeglaive was around, Ezreal abused it horribly and had it taken away from EVERYONE. Iceborn Gauntlet received a nerf after Blue Ezreal became so overwhelmingly strong and what did Ezreal get? Nothing, other than the ability to just go back to what he was doing before. When Spirit of the Elder Lizard was around applying a Red buff effect on autoattacks.. guess who abused that? Yeah, Ezreal. I realize I'm just repeating what points I made in the post that got you to reply, but they're the biggest offenders. He just gets a free pass whenever something comes along. In another thread, I read a term that I'm fond of - The Ezreal Test. Does it make Ezreal overpowered? Yes? Okay, get rid of it. Don't touch him, he's the perfect child. Always hit the other part of the equation..

Runeglaive was removed for being shitty on everyone who jungles other than AA jungles and builds AP. Which in the jungle most AP junglers are spell orientated not AA therefore making it a terrible item.

Omnem Occido5 votes

Nidalee begs, no pleads pitifully, to differ.

Sp33d Zer02 votes

other than AA jungles and builds AP

Pretty sure nidalee does both of those things.

Omnem Occido7 votes

All I'm saying is that most AP junglers, like Nid, use autos. Nid, Elise, Eve, Shaco, Diana, Ekko, all of them have an on hit. The only person that doesn't have an AA modifier and is AP is Fiddlesticks, and he is NOT the model of healthiness right now.

The Soulforged26 votes

kleptomancy is cancer

Big Black Croc26 votes

Ezreal is cancer

MonkeyMadness6 votes

Nah. He just finds a way to break virtually every on-hit effect in the game in the weirdest way imaginable. They should probably just buff the Q and remove the on-hit effect bit. That would honestly leave him in a decent spot I think.

SweedishGunner21 votes

If Ezreal isn't abusing an on-hit affect at least 3 times a year something is wrong.

SpecterVonBaren14 votes

I wonder if it isn't time for Riot to just do something about Ezreal's Q period. How many times has he abused an item or mastery at this point and gotten it or himself nerfed because of it? It might be better to just finally change it in some significant way so this stops happening. And I know that the way his Q works is his thing and I'd rather just keep it's unique mechanics but I still have to ask if its worth it at this point.

Yenn11 votes

This thread is a great example of why we need rank restricted forums. ADC Ezreal is sitting on nearly 60% win rate at Diamond+ and still climbing. He's not okay, regardless of the commenters' experience with monkeys in Silver III.

ModAcademy Kayn8 votes

It's been about 5 days now since the patch? I can understand strength, but with such a huge set of changes, people are still learning how to deal/adjust with everything. We wouldn't trust people who yell "X NEW CHAMP IS OP", not as a credible source. Now I could just be completely wrong, but Preseason is chaos. To what degree are people still messing about with new things, and how much is it being seriously played?

Acheron1631 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lMpic4IU,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-11-12T23:22:30.698+0000)

It's been about 5 days now since the patch? I can understand strength, but with such a huge set of changes, people are still learning how to deal/adjust with everything. We wouldn't trust people who yell "X NEW CHAMP IS OP", not as a credible source. Now I could just be completely wrong, but Preseason is chaos. To what degree are people still messing about with new things, and how much is it being seriously played?

Doing 200 damage per Q at level 1 is not ok.

Period.

It Hertz When IP5 votes

How? Genuinely curious, how is he doing that?

SociopathFriend4 votes

Just reverse-calc the number.

Q = 125% AD + 35

200 = X +35 165 = X

165 / 1.25 = 132 AD

He gets half of that just for existing at level 1. So between Runes and his first item he needs either 60 AD to do it in raw damage.

Or it might be factoring in stuff like Aery or one of the runes that apply damage- which I don't know off the top of my head. However I would consider that dishonest since it's no longer 'just' his Q and I also can't factor in enemy armor.

Mysticman891 votes

Scorch (sorc regular rune) does 30-60 bonus magic damage on ability use, and aery/comet also do a bundle of damage, and then Q's damage itself. Aery/comet/Q have AD scaling and working out what those are doing at level 1 is more work than I feel like right now (especially considering theres a few potential sources of AD from other runes), but the combination of Q+scorch+aery/comet is probably the culprit.

Wimbledofy4 votes

ezreal doesn't take aery though. He takes kleptomancy. I'm not really sure how but he does seem to be doing way too much damage at level 1 now. I've only played against him twice this preseason and as sivir both times, so maybe I'm just bad or sivir sucks into him, but I get instantly poked/harassed out of lane by him and feels like there's nothing I can do.

Acheron161 votes

Abusing kleptomancy to get the Red damage potion.

That thing gives him a lot of AD, and I'm not sure if it isn't valued into the Sheen proc.

Owyn1 votes

can you sell to shop kleptomanced items?

An Undead brat2 votes

Yes.

Salron6 votes

Hotfix klepto first

koshkyra3 votes

I like how we're talking about a 56% winrate like its a big thing after JUST getting out of the Janna Ivern metas

YumaS2Astral2 votes

To be honest, there is something wrong with Ezreal. He has been shit for months, and now he is extremely OP due to a new rune introduced. That would not be a problem if it wasn't like this everytime that Ezreal was OP.

Bolwinkel2 votes

Sona as well?

Xonra2 votes

I mean, they added a buff/change to his Q for proccing and didn't even put it in the patch notes, so I don't see them hot fixing him. Despite the fact he is easily the biggest outlier case right now with the runes.

But nope, gotta nerf Sona and apparently Yorick might be next.

The ADC bias is just getting old.

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