Perfect balance. A tank who is able to have a decent laning phase is a problem I see. Meanwhile Irelia who can't tank as much as sion, but for sure do WAY more damage and is actually able to kill your carries alone can stay the same.
OxBaker5 votesYeah but in fairness at least RIOT didn't OLAFize Sion with this nerf. All Sion was in need of was a tweak to his lane power and that's all Riot limited the nerf too. He was never a first choice top lane pick like Mao or Irelia but he'll still be viable after this.
DropFill2 votesYeah but in fairness at least RIOT didn't OLAFize Sion with this nerf. All Sion was in need of was a tweak to his lane power and that's all Riot limited the nerf too. He was never a first choice top lane pick like Mao or Irelia but he'll still be viable after this.
Sion never needed any nerf. His lane power is the only thing he had. He has less tank potential than maokai, less damage, and maokai is good against him. No reason at all to nerf him
LankPants4 votesHis lane power is the only thing he had.
You don't honestly believe that do you? If a characters only trait was 'can survive lane' they wouldn't be played. Sion has an amazing late game thanks to his ability to engage and generally just being an uber tank.
Junkο2 votesIt's funny, a character whose only power is that he can survive the laning phase has the highest win rate in the game.
Narasimha1 votesWhat? He was always made to shine in teamfights. AOE damage, AOE disruption, one of the best initiates in the game, and a passive that punishes the enemy for focusing you.
UPfreely4 votesyeah they're almost doubling the cost of his e at rank 5... idk why they're nerfing him, he isn't even a problem champ.
DUDE BRO5 votesSions were maxing their E to safely harass from a distance, which wasn't intended. Not much to do with nerfing the character, just abusing a mechanic they didn't want, like AP trynd abusing his Q heal.
IcyPepper13 votesSions were maxing their E to safely harass from a distance, which wasn't intended.
A top laner who can safely harass from a distance? That's new and deserving of a nerf. 
qetzel2 votes*which wasn't intended
You can't just ignore half a sentence, even if it is bullshit...
Cuz19723 votesA top laner who can safely harass from a distance? That's new and deserving of a nerf.
Lulu's abilities cost more mana at level 1 than Sion's e at level 5. Same for Cho. Same for Liss's q and e. Same for Quinn's q. Gangplank's q is 5 less at level 1. Same for Nid. Panth's q is 10 more at level 1 and 10 less at level 5. However, Panth's mana is 267 – 845 and his regen 7.4 – 15.0 vs Sion's 276 – 1041 and 8.0 – 18.2
Junkο4 votesI wasn't aware Lulu, Lissandra, Quinn and Nidalee suddenly became melee so they cannot harass with AAs anymore
Feathermane1 votesAA harass draws minion aggro, which outdamages early game autos. Highly un-recommended.
DropFill1 votesLulu's abilities cost more mana at level 1 than Sion's e at level 5. Same for Cho. Same for Liss's q and e. Same for Quinn's q. Gangplank's q is 5 less at level 1. Same for Nid. Panth's q is 10 more at level 1 and 10 less at level 5. However, Panth's mana is 267 – 845 and his regen 7.4 – 15.0 vs Sion's 276 – 1041 and 8.0 – 18.2
Lulu builds ap and mana regen,so her Q scales harder than his. Liss Q is more spammable, do more damage since she builds ap, she buys mana regen and has her passive Quinn can harass with her AA GP Q scales with his AD, apply on hit effects, can crit. Nid has spammable abilities that cost no mana to follow up her Q Panth Q scale with his AD, which he buys.
Joquan1 votesDon't try to use logic on these boards.
Megatankbot1 votesDon't try to use logic on these boards.
Oh, sorry i forgot. NERF RAAAAMUS TOO STROK BEAT ME IN RANK!!!!!!!!
Orbv1 votesI can't believe nobody commented on Cho's E. His Vorpal Spikes deal ranged damaged with no cost. As it's also AoE, it was one of his most damaging abilities back when people built him with attack speed.
PerishSoftly1 votesHowever the early damage is tickling to you, and it pushes the wave rather quickly. Additionally, if he maxes his W second, you can get a spectres and his E actually ends up healing you.
EndlessSorcerer1 votesDoesn't Cho'gath usually max Q last? If he maxed W second, he probably maxed E first and that damage can add up really quickly.
DropFill2 votes[{quoted}](name=DUDE BRO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lKMUm2OB,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-03-11T05:22:53.092+0000)
Sions were maxing their E to safely harass from a distance, which wasn't intended. Not much to do with nerfing the character, just abusing a mechanic they didn't want, like AP trynd abusing his Q heal.
Wasn't intend? AP trynd was BS because he could sustain a stupid amount. Sion just do damage, that is fairly dodgeable
PerishSoftly1 votesEver seen a 
with 
? He can sustain a ludicrous amount as well.
Baron of Bread1 votesI am totally guilty of maxing E first on Sion, jungle or lane. In the jungle I do it for the slow though, so I might need to max something else there now.
junglerboy161 votesQ max has always been better in the jungle to be honest (That is where I play Sion most) because it gives you much better clear speed and landing a fully charged Q from the bush is devastating in a gank, while E is an excellent lane poke tool and setup for when you can't charge your Q from a bush. I wish they would leave it alone though, because having good poke in lane is the only thing keeping him viable vs the Kennens and Lissandras and Irelias.
YossarianSensei6 votesYeah dude it'd be really ghey if there were a tanky top laner with a low cost spammable ranged harass that slowed you
Zazusha4 votes35 vs 55 is hardly Double the cost.
DropFill3 votes35 vs 55 is hardly Double the cost.
It is still a huge difference to someone who doesn't buy mana regen. Also, against AP he is kind of fucked now.
Zazusha1 voteswell, vs physical top, he can build a glacial shroud, it'll give him mana and armor, and cdr, all good for him.
vs Ap he can build Spectre's Cowl. Mr, Hp, Hp Regen when hit. All good for him.
Not every champion is played a Single way against every other champion.
ALSO, if ur against AP, that isn't another tank, Then you don't need to put more then 1 point in E anyway, as AP's are generally squishier then AD top laners (aka real top laners). So you wouldn't feel the Mana cost increase, you WILL however feel the Non-Scaling mana cost of Maxing his Q first. Cus maxing Q vs AP will give you better wave clear to counter their's.
Joquan1 votesSion should only have 2 ways to start the game top lane.
If hes facing melee, he goes 5 pots, and cloth armor, and gets frozen heart, which gives him mana.
If hes facing a mage, he goes flask, which also gives him mana.
TotalJerk1 votesAt the point where Sion ranks it up to 5 mana shouldn't be a huge issue for him
Only Play Darius4 votesMeanwhile ranged cancer can go top and get targeted mana-free harass with no cooldowns.
LittleBlast2 votesSion was able to do first clear with no pots used. He is an insane jungler atm.
Jefftiffy1 votesThis guy again.
DropFill5 votesThis guy again.
- Sion shouldn't be able to use 200 mana to kill a person as a tank.
- yes Irelia needs nerfs, but she does at least have a ramp up period.
- Sion is getting buffed in other areas so he can't just roar someone out of lane using no mana and shield any damage they may try to give when they go in.
1- Sion E is farly dodgeable, also 200 mana is a lot to someone who doesn't even buy mana regen. 2- Yes , her ramp up period is between the loading screen. 3- His Q is not something you lvl up since you need AD to do damage - and CC from someone to get full damage of it
TotalJerk1 votesAs far as I've experienced, no one has ever dodged my E. If it didn't connect, it was because I missed.
Banished Souls1 votesHer first 4 lvs are terrible if your opponent is at least not stupid. The only reason she seems op right now is because there are so many squishes who are bad at kiting right now. You slow and suddenly she has a hard time doing anything. I do agree she needs more of a ramp period though. They should adjust her numbers so she has to spend more time playing safe to hit her power spike. Otherwise, her strength comes from people being stupid in what they do against her.
DropFill1 votes[{quoted}](name=Banished Souls,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lKMUm2OB,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-03-14T03:52:47.137+0000)
Her first 4 lvs are terrible if your opponent is at least not stupid. The only reason she seems op right now is because there are so many squishes who are bad at kiting right now. You slow and suddenly she has a hard time doing anything. I do agree she needs more of a ramp period though. They should adjust her numbers so she has to spend more time playing safe to hit her power spike. Otherwise, her strength comes from people being stupid in what they do against her.
I play fiora top because I love her. But if the enemy top chooses Irelia, there is nothing I can do. Engage? E stun Disengage? Impossible, fiora has no defensive mobility
Marinaras Trench1 votes#BetterNerfIrelia
JJ H0G1 votesBut this isn't a joke.
I'm sad.
junglerboy161 votesI think it has to do with the fact that the new jungle item for tanks that is coming in will make him an absolute monstrosity, because it will make his W's bonus health scale that much harder in the jungle.
I don't like though how they are trying to force people into maxing Q first instead of E, because E is by far the better lane poke and early game spell (of course you don't max W because it mostly scales with max health not levels). Q max has always been better in the jungle, and E max is the best for laning, so because of the mana rebalancing and the new jungle Item, I think my Sion jungle will actually be superior to lane Sion by a lot now.
Feathermane1 votesCheck Sion's damage totals after some matches, you are in for a surprise.
Megatankbot1 votesSion was not really nerfed, and irelia dose not need any. Irelia counters range and is countered by bruisers. It is range all day every day in the meta right now so she is doing good. Try picking Darius instead of gnar against her and you will do better.
DropFill1 votesSion was not really nerfed, and irelia dose not need any. Irelia counters range and is countered by bruisers. It is range all day every day in the meta right now so she is doing good. Try picking Darius instead of gnar against her and you will do better.
She is good against all melee too, except maybe nasus, and even against him she is decent
Angelofchaos16x1 votesReally you want them to nerf Irelia AGAIN ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? She has nerfed so many times she is NOTHING comparing to the original Irelia. Adding mana cost to one of his abilities is hardly a nerf, considering that Frozen Heart is something VERY normal to build on Sion. And the cost for his Q is going to be reduced, and its the what you are suppost to max 1 , so it is not really a nerf.
DropFill1 votesReally you want them to nerf Irelia AGAIN ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? She has nerfed so many times she is NOTHING comparing to the original Irelia. Adding mana cost to one of his abilities is hardly a nerf, considering that Frozen Heart is something VERY normal to build on Sion. And the cost for his Q is going to be reduced, and its the what you are suppost to max 1 , so it is not really a nerf.
v1.0.0.139 - 2012-05-01
Base health increased to 546 from 515
Health per level increased to 90 from 85
Base health regen per 5 increased to 7.5 from 6.5
Base damage increased to 59.3 from 56.3
Last time they thouched her, it was a buff. OFC she was nerfed, she was BS on release.
Angelofchaos16x1 votesI am not talking about her last change, I am talking about the original Irelia, when she first came out. Her and Xin where absurdly OP. Ask anyone from season 1
Jungle Lux God1 votesIt's less a nerf and more of a power shift.
With Sion's Roar of the Slayer, you get some really long-ranged poke. If you max it first, your poke is extremely strong, even when building full tank, and your poke is super safe.
This wouldn't normally be a problem, except for the fact that it costs so little. 35 mana is way too little for how strong a poking tool it is, especially considering how deceiving its range can be when used through minions.
These factors give Sion an inappropriately strong early game for how strong his late game is, so the mana adjustment is there to keep his laning phase more in check, and expand on the weaknesses of bullying Sion early to delay his lategame power spike.
He's also getting the mana cost reduced on his Decimating Smash at later levels, which is a pretty good compensation buff. This improves his early game if he maxes it first without making his laning phase too oppressive to go against.
Also, don't forget the indirect buffs he's getting. The new Cinderhulk enchantment should be absolutely insane on jungle Sion.
DropFill1 votesHe's also getting the mana cost reduced on his Decimating Smash at later levels, which is a pretty good compensation buff. This improves his early game if he maxes it first without making his laning phase too oppressive to go against.
It is nearly impossible to hit his full Q
Jungle Lux God1 votesYou don't need to hit his full Q.
You just need to charge it long enough to get the stun, not to mention you get a free Q after ulting someone.
Conturbatio1 votesMorello had a contract with her after the "Better Nerf" incident since Lulu's release. That's why she won't get any more nerfs.
thinking man1 votesBoth are broken.
Sion's laning phase was faceroll easy, Irelia's every phase is faceroll easy.