How long is going to last this "ultraearly meta"?

Thilmer·Nov 26, 2017·86 votes·2,427 views

As soon as someone is 2-0, the game is over. Riot could as well introduce and option to surrender at minute 5.

We are still traped in season 7. Boooooring...

33 Comments

dominusxNov 26, 201727 votes

Only if you abuse meta champs. Last time i checked i'm still irrelevant as Darius as soon as i step out of top cause the enemy adc is 1-0

quasistellarNov 26, 201718 votes

{quoted}

As soon as someone is 2-0, the game is over. Riot could as well introduce and option to surrender at minute 5.

We are still traped in season 7. Boooooring...

The game is out. of. control. right now.

Succubús GFNov 26, 201710 votes

Once I hit 2 or 3 kills as zoe I like auto win my games LOL

RàinbowNov 27, 20178 votes

usually i don't really care about all this "let's complain about the meta" but this one honestly has to be the most annoying one to ever 'grace' league.

SpiritOfOdysseusNov 27, 20177 votes

Tis why I don't play SR. Its slowly gone from: Fun ---> kinda fun ---> kinda bs ---> straight bs ---> abomination

AzadetheNov 26, 20174 votes

I just had a 57:30 game because the Kindred on our team was trolling and refused to pick up stacks; At 57:30 her creep to stack marks was STILL the river Scuttle. We actually had taken baron 2 times..... and the Scuttle was right there with the Mark, and she recalled instead of taking it. (She got 3 marks in a 57;30 game)

Anywho, that game, we started with a 4/1 Tristana vs us. My vayne was diving her to try to kill Soraka, and just face tanking trist's entire kit to do it.

They had a top GP who was also snowballing, with frequent Top/Mid kills. So we had 2 snowballs vs us.

However, good ole Karma support + Talon mid got a few kills in, stopped lane pushes enough that our Nexus didn't get taken. They destroyed our Inhibitors like 4 times, but by the time they got to our nexus, Talon and I would trap and kill their Hecarim, or snipe out Tristana, and then their team would fall like a deck of cards.

This happened for 57 minutes. At 46:00 I finally just sold my Athene's for a Death Cap, put myself at 912 AP, and on like our 3rd Elder fight, we managed to Ace them for the 5th or 6th time without losing too many people (3 of 5 alive; other times was 1-2 left living), so I went to our base to kill incoming siege minions while the other 2 went and took their nexus.

No game is over until a team is both Snowballed, has a perma lock aoe combo, and has 2-3 Infernal drakes. Then it's probably over.

Also, don't underestimate Gathering Storm. if you're the team that's behind, and you have Gathering Storm but they don't, just hold out. That's meant to help you come back (at 57:30 I had 120 AP from Gathering Storm, + 80 from Trascendence).

yoshi2790Nov 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

However, good ole Karma support

This happened for 57 minutes. At 46:00 I finally just sold my Athene's for a Death Cap, put myself at 912 AP,

This is NOT support.

RocketRelmNov 26, 20171 votes

This is also a 50+ minute game in bronze. Everyone's full build, and Karma's had a chance to build up an extreme basin of power.

AzadetheNov 27, 20171 votes

It's Silver/Gold (not much different) and Karma was the REASON for the time to turn it around, along with Talon. You do know..... There are posted 60+ minute similar games by ImaQTPie <3

The whole point is games do turn around.

Mr DallowayNov 26, 201712 votes

{quoted}

This is NOT support.

The point is obviously that he gave up supporting useless players and just decided he was better off destroying people.

AzadetheNov 27, 20172 votes

And I did have a Censer and Athene's. i eventually sold the Athene's because I was capped at 550 AP and replaced it with a Death Cap. (technically sold Censer first, but then realized I was moving much slower so I swapped it back in). I spent a lot of time tapping enemies to charge the Athene's and then barrier an ally to heal in stalemate 5v5's. Healed over 16,000 (some was to self ofc).

Standard Karma support build right now involves Censer/Athene's Morellonomicon, because they are just beefy on karma. There's no purpose of actives on a Karma, since her whole job involves putting her in the fight, rather than playing passively and using actives. I believe I did have the Sightstone blue support item, but sold for more AP.

InfinitexMortalNov 27, 20171 votes

It is in this meta [slayer-jinx-wink]

SpecterVonBarenNov 27, 20171 votes

Guess I should use all my money on gambling then, since there's always that chance it can pay off.

AzadetheNov 27, 20172 votes

Gambling is risking your actual tangible assets, and that's not a direct comparison;

If you're comparing a game to a round of gambling:

You've already laid down your bet when you queued up for the game.
If you fold, you're going to lose.
There is no raising the stakes, because a win and a loss will pay out the same no matter if it's a legitimate loss or a surrender.

Since there's no further risk or loss, just play out the game. If you were ahead and win, you've still just won. If you turn around a loss into a win, you've won more.

SpecterVonBarenNov 27, 20171 votes

My time is an intangible asset but it's nonetheless important to me. But that's besides the point, your argument was, "There's always a chance" yes, there is ALWAYS a chance, but that doesn't mean it's worth it. These games are not life or death situations, they do not warrant, "Going all out and struggling and scrapping no matter what". These aren't even LCS games where there's some kind of commitment you've given to it and some kind of tangible reward for it. The argument of, "You might be able to" doesn't hold water.

Now don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying you can't be down some kills and not come back, the point of these threads is that the chances or making a comeback are lower than they've been in previous seasons. I've been in situations that looked kinda rough but I could tell we could potentially win it, those situations have been lowering significantly for me since this time last year.

You're looking at what someone says, "That games are becoming too snowbally." And then taking an example that you don't even know if it's the kind of game the OP is talking about. Yes it's an exaggerated post but the point is still that games are decided too early.

AzadetheNov 27, 20171 votes

Firstly, I understand time is important. However, you're not saving time. You're risking more of it. Let me explain

Current Game choice: Surrender 15-20, or possible win 50 minutes.

Option 1: 20 minutes consumed + 8 minutes in Queue/Select. An additional 8 minutes + New game spent trying to recover lost LP.

Option 1 considerations:

Length of next game could be anything, from another 15-20 minute surrender, to a 50 minute game of win to a 20 minute Surrender on the other team, to a 50 minute win for them. There are no rules of averages in League, so that's all we can expect. However, if you Surrender/lose that game, that's even more LP lost, and more trees of possibilities going forward.

You can't estimate truly the cost of that surrender in time, because you don't know the future, and the outcomes are infinite. You may very well win that next game and recover your LP. But the very next game could take it back and you lose.

But what we do know is, just taking that route at LEAST cost you the first game + the second game in time (about 58 minutes total if both were only 20 minutes). Any other possibility leads to more time spent than an Hour.

Now, consider Option 2:

You play it out. You can win, or can lose. if you win, you're going to consume that 58 minutes and be ahead of where you were in Option 1 by 1 game, reducing 1 tree from the possible outcomes. There's a possible net gain of 1 game's LP. The other options are you are out the extra 30 minutes, and are where you were if you surrendered.

if you lose Option 2, again, we don't know the infinite outcomes, but we do know this: you had an option to at least save 28 minutes, and 1 game worth of LP.

Both options lead to spending exponential time on winning, but only staying in gains the possibility of a time reduction and an LP gain.

I highly suggest that anyone interested in what i just wrote; look up your local college, and take a course called "Game Theory" from the economics department.

Kats PajamasNov 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Firstly, I understand time is important. However, you're not saving time. You're risking more of it. Let me explain

Current Game choice: Surrender 15-20, or possible win 50 minutes.

Option 1: 20 minutes consumed + 8 minutes in Queue/Select. An additional 8 minutes + New game spent trying to recover lost LP.

Option 1 considerations:

Length of next game could be anything, from another 15-20 minute surrender, to a 50 minute game of win to a 20 minute Surrender on the other team, to a 50 minute win for them. There are no rules of averages in League, so that's all we can expect. However, if you Surrender/lose that game, that's even more LP lost, and more trees of possibilities going forward.

You can't estimate truly the cost of that surrender in time, because you don't know the future, and the outcomes are infinite. You may very well win that next game and recover your LP. But the very next game could take it back and you lose.

But what we do know is, just taking that route at LEAST cost you the first game + the second game in time (about 58 minutes total if both were only 20 minutes). Any other possibility leads to more time spent than an Hour.

Now, consider Option 2:

You play it out. You can win, or can lose. if you win, you're going to consume that 58 minutes and be ahead of where you were in Option 1 by 1 game, reducing 1 tree from the possible outcomes. There's a possible net gain of 1 game's LP. The other options are you are out the extra 30 minutes, and are where you were if you surrendered.

if you lose Option 2, again, we don't know the infinite outcomes, but we do know this: you had an option to at least save 28 minutes, and 1 game worth of LP.

Both options lead to spending exponential time on winning, but only staying in gains the possibility of a time reduction and an LP gain.

I highly suggest that anyone interested in what i just wrote; look up your local college, and take a course called "Game Theory" from the economics department.

It doesn't take a genius to prove it's faster to win now, than win later.

The problem with surrender is it's contending that Bronzies have any idea when it's appropriate to surrender. They don't.

I've gotten a Pentakill in the surrendering timeout itself before the Nexus explodes, they're idiots, they shouldn't even be allowed to vote.

I can't even count how many times I've won games where teammates spam surrender when they are displeased, it's nearly every game it feels that way.

I've won with teammates sitting at the fountain spamming surrender 4v5, many people probably have similar stories.

Surrender also means you will consistently have the least practice in late-game play, where things matter most. It's not wonder at all the people that spam surrender have no idea the last team fight will be massively in your favor when they are voting to quit just before it.

ThilmerNov 26, 20174 votes

I just played a game.

The botlane give a double kill to the enemy Missfortune.

Missfortune wen to the shop and back to lane, and one minute later she gets another doublé kill.

Automatic lost game.

But I have to play another 20 minutes because my team didn't surrendered. Complete waste of time.

Scary DoorNov 27, 20173 votes

Let's be honest folks. This has been the direction the game has been going for the last couple of seasons.

Riot clearly wants the game to be faster paced. So damage has been steadily increasing in two ways... first, defensive itemization is just inferior and offensive itemization (particularly AD) has improved dramatically.

DarkRoosterNov 27, 20173 votes

So.... how is HotS or Dota2 nowadays ?

Proxy345Nov 26, 20172 votes

Probably till season 9 lol

PePsiLemoNNNov 26, 20172 votes

I rate this shitpost 9/10 on the shitpost scale.

JustSaiyan69Nov 26, 20174 votes

When you shitpost on a shitpost.

PePsiLemoNNNov 27, 20171 votes

Why should I bother to give a serious answer to this joke of a "discussion" lul

SadKillNov 27, 20172 votes

Welcome to preseason

deadlychuckNov 27, 20172 votes

How long does a "meta" need to be around before it just becomes the game's design?

muted team chatNov 27, 20172 votes

Mid gold elo; last night: my team loses a lvl 1 fight by getting ACED; their top lane zed starts the game 3-0.

We won ~35-40 minutes in.

You're wrong.

The Ghøst KingNov 27, 20171 votes

i went 7/0/0 as vayne in lane and couldnt win the game, i agree with you

ThilmerNov 27, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=always blamin jg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIg3k36M,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-11-27T15:18:06.837+0000)

Mid gold elo; last night: my team loses a lvl 1 fight by getting ACED; their top lane zed starts the game 3-0.

We won ~35-40 minutes in.

You're wrong.

A single game doesn't probe anything. 40 minutes games are the exception, not the rule.

Tearin TrueNov 26, 20171 votes

I honestly have not had that experience. I watch a lot of streams and have not seen that on streams either.

RankOneUgandaNov 27, 20171 votes

and it has less to do with msateries than broken champions. and am going to focus on junglers. yes we know adc can two three hit people with 2 items. but lets focus on the junglers

Xin zhao, shyvanna, J4. the unholy trinity. you have Xin. if he ever steps in lane. you have to fucking flash because you will get dashed to and perma slowed. Shyvanna. she will outcs your laners and she can solo drakes at level 4. and J4. the one that simply does everything.

TheFancySkeletonNov 28, 20171 votes

I just want damage to be lowered all across the board.

I would've loved to play Kled in season 4.