Problem in Tahm but it existed before Tahm

Noctius28·Jun 24, 2015·24 votes·7,919 views

So I was watching Pawnces gameplay and I noticed an issue that has slightly bugged me for some time but was incredibly clear with Tahm...

You don't get assists from tanking

In Tahm this was more obvious because his purpose in teamfights is to take out the most damage from a couple of seconds

So he went in, licked 1 enemy then ate him, taking out his damage from the fight and tanking the rest of the enemy team They won that teamfight, they almost got an ACE and Tahm tanked it all, what did he get?

1 single assist from the first enemy he ate

Why? because he can't attack while he is eating someone, he could only, and did, Tank the enemy carries, but that isn't taken into consideration, it only takes in when you either buff an ally or damage/debuff an enemy...

I very much dislike the way this works, It feels like being the wall for the team is not being rewarded, now I know most tanks have sunfire cape or cinderhulk, but that is not always the case, and sometimes you simply don't get close enough to use it, you just block for the team

I would like to propose that getting hit by the enemy would also be considered assist in the case that the enemy dies during the same time it would be considered an assist if you dealt damage

Share if you agree or not and why

111 Comments

Baron of BreadJun 24, 20158 votes

Perhaps they should make the auras from items count to get assists? Then you have your Aegis and Frozen Heart granting assists, not randomly taking damage. Throwing the AS slow from Randuin's would also be reasonable.

My reasoning for this is that if Jinx shoots her ult at her enemy and misses and hits someone on the other side of the map and is then killed, that person on the other side of the map will get an assist for doing nothing. The auras need to be near to work and Randuin's needs to be in the fight, so I think those would be reasonable.

EDIT: Did some testing and here are the results: The only aura that worked that I got tested was Taric's ultimate (I didn't get to test other champion's auras), his Shatter aura did not work. Randuin's passive actually did work interestingly enough. Aegis, Locket, Abyssal, Zeke's, Frozen Heart and Captain boots auras did not grant assists. All active effects seemed to work (tested Righteous Glory [with just the speed boost, did not isolate the slow], Randuin's and Locket).

Iron IV dudeJun 25, 20151 votes

I thought it allready works exactly like that......................

Baron of BreadJun 25, 20151 votes

I guess I should double check to make sure that it does. Will return with answers!

EDIT: The tests are in! The only aura that worked that I got tested was Taric's ultimate (I didn't get to test other champion's auras), his Shatter aura did not work. Randuin's passive actually did work interestingly enough. Aegis, Locket, Abyssal, Zeke's, Frozen Heart and Captain boots auras did not grant assists. All active effects seemed to work (tested Righteous Glory [with just the speed boost, did not isolate the slow], Randuin's and Locket).

Iron IV dudeJun 26, 20151 votes

Kinda dissapointing... xD

Akali MIA CareJun 29, 20151 votes

Only active items, spell cast, auto, or summoner spells grant kill/assist credit. Passive auras don't give any credit, just the passive stats for your team.

Hyrum GraffJun 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIet9I8e,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-06-24T19:01:29.219+0000)

My reasoning for this is that if Jinx shoots her ult at her enemy and misses and hits someone on the other side of the map and is then killed, that person on the other side of the map will get an assist for doing nothing. The auras need to be near to work and Randuin's needs to be in the fight, so I think those would be reasonable.

C'mon, though. "It creates problems" is not an excuse to avoid doing something that also fixes problems. How often do you hit someone cross-map with your global ult, and then die afterwards, compared to how often tanks miss assists for things that they actually help with? Plus, there's an easy fix: you don't get the assist unless you took damage from them while being less than 2.5k units from them. IMO, that's a much more elegant solution than something hackey with aura items.

IcyPepperJun 24, 20156 votes

Honestly, I think there should be some limitations. For tank walls, like this, I think it would be fair. Maybe if you use a shield and it gets damaged/broken by an enemy, it'll be considered an assist (Lux, Braum's E, Nautilus, etc).

Or maybe Riot could at least make an exception for Tahm. Make it unique to him at the very least.

disregardableJun 24, 20158 votes

Or Thick skin could just have a baby thornmail/sunfire cape.

IcyPepperJun 24, 20154 votes

Maybe deal 1 true damage? Nothing major, just enough to get that assist.

ShuffledPancakeJun 24, 20152 votes

If you shield/heal someone and they get a kill its an assist, see a 4v4 top Soraka ult 4 assists

Noctius28Jun 24, 20152 votes

If you shield/heal someone and they get a kill its an assist, see a 4v4 top Soraka ult 4 assists

That is not the point, the problem here is when you take on the damage for the team so the carries can kill the enemy but don't even get an assist for you broken teeth, happens with alot of Tanks but Tahm will be especially hit by this problem because of his role in teamfights

ShuffledPancakeJun 24, 20151 votes

he has a ranged poke, Swallow (?) etc, if he tanks and his team wins the match his job is done he is happy and he did the right thing, but for someone to say plz buff every support/tank, that seems very bad. Supports (ALot of the time) are tanks, so thats buffing top support and a whole type of champion. If he tanks and they get a kill boom - he is benefited, i have never seen a tank-tank alot of dmg without ever touching an enemy.

Noctius28Jun 24, 20152 votes

ok this is getting ridiculous, I'm not asking for a buff to anyone, I am asking that getting hit counts as an assist, just like giving an ally a shield or healing them or dealing damage to the enemy, that is all, I am asking that being the shield of the team be rewarded, nothing else

ShuffledPancakeJun 24, 20153 votes

Thats a buff then, increasing gold flow without providing an equaliser is a buff.

Noctius28Jun 24, 20154 votes

Thats a buff then, increasing gold flow without providing an equaliser is a buff.

Actually it would be what most people refer to as a "quality of life" change, but you have expressed how useless you think Tanks are so no point trying to have a decent discussion with you

Angry MonsterJun 24, 20152 votes

This is a prefect example of why riot refuses to base MMR gains of in game performance. Certain roles are not going to look as good as others. You just have to know what you are supposed to do and do your job.

Also proves why mastery is a joke.

IcyPepperJun 24, 20154 votes

I know this. Soraka players with good map awareness do this at times >.>

Shielding/healing someone already grants assists, it's common knowledge. If you're referring to my previous comment about having your own shields diminished for assists, I'm talking about walls like Nautilus who can tank shots. Lux doesn't really count as a tank, but she shields herself so she could take a shot for someone (but just one, she's squishy AF). Braum blocking a spell with his shield ought to count too, since that's a game-changing ability when done right.

The EcdysiastJun 24, 20152 votes

If you see a 4v4 anywhere and drop balls on them, you get assists. Free pirate booty. Gangplank

FastAsHeckJun 24, 20154 votes

its a good idea but with a limitation, otherwise you would get assists when your team kills their tank who touched you once with his sunfire.

DrCyanideJun 24, 20153 votes

Your noob teammate walks into a 5v1, gets attacked by everyone, and dies without firing a shot. Your team decides that the enemy blew enough cooldown it's worth engaging. You manage to win the 4v5. Your noob teammate gets 5 assists for dying, which is more than some of your active members of the team got due to positioning and targets.

Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Furthermore, it'll spiral into wanting assists for vision (which will result in warding areas where you can already see just for the gold) and wanting assists for clutch saves (which are impossible for the computer to determine if it was actually a clutch save).

KazaashiJun 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Your noob teammate walks into a 5v1, gets attacked by everyone, and dies without firing a shot. Your team decides that the enemy blew enough cooldown it's worth engaging. You manage to win the 4v5. Your noob teammate gets 5 assists for dying, which is more than some of your active members of the team got due to positioning and targets.

Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Furthermore, it'll spiral into wanting assists for vision (which will result in warding areas where you can already see just for the gold) and wanting assists for clutch saves (which are impossible for the computer to determine if it was actually a clutch save).

That exact situation could be rephrased positively and be used to support the argument. Your teammate bait's the other team into blowing their Ult's and other CC by diving into them 1v5, but dies before getting off an AA or ability, then your team moves in to win the 4v5 because they have powerful abilities off CD. That bait was totally worth 5 assists.

I think wards should provide assists, if vision wasn't granted from another source, i.e. another ward or champion. I think that would work to illustrate the importance of smart, efficient warding. I mean if the enemy would escape into a bush with 7 health, but the supp places a quick ward and the adc gets the last AA off for the kill, I'd say that ward placement assisted the hell out of that kill.

Clutch saves are for style points and nothing more. Also denying the other team 300-500 gold.

Iron IV dudeJun 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Your noob teammate walks into a 5v1, gets attacked by everyone, and dies without firing a shot. Your team decides that the enemy blew enough cooldown it's worth engaging. You manage to win the 4v5. Your noob teammate gets 5 assists for dying

reconsider who is the real noob now.... Tipps: The one that blew all the ults up from the enemy team, while his teammates were near around (not following) or the teammates, that did not follow, watched him die, doing no objects, flame him, ace the enemy team after.

Simpler: The one that do the kills or the one that prepares all the kills?

I, as a part-time support, would LOVE to see wards giving assists. I would FINALLY not be the only one warding and getting flamed (SUPPORT, WHERE THE FK ARE WARDS?!) "Pings 3 locations + the pink ward" (NEED MORE VISION; NUBSUPPORT! Allchat: REPORT OUR SUPPORT; NOT WARDING!!!!!)

(Gold 1, and I still do have discussions like this... not kidding here)

Noctius28Jun 25, 20151 votes

I, as a part-time support, would LOVE to see wards giving assists. I would FINALLY not be the only one warding and getting flamed (SUPPORT, WHERE THE FK ARE WARDS?!) "Pings 3 locations + the pink ward" (NEED MORE VISION; NUBSUPPORT! Allchat: REPORT OUR SUPPORT; NOT WARDING!!!!!)

(Gold 1, and I still do have discussions like this... not kidding here)

Imagine getting 5 gold per 3 seconds when an enemy stays in vision of your ward, would be cool ^^

But how to avoid people spamming wards in the same place just to get gold?

That is the problem

Same thing as how to fix people abusing if tanking DID count for assists

It's all possible but people prefer to rage and say NO NO NO instead of thinking of a fair way to make it work

RisurinJun 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Imagine getting 5 gold per 3 seconds when an enemy stays in vision of your ward, would be cool ^^

But how to avoid people spamming wards in the same place just to get gold?

That is the problem

Same thing as how to fix people abusing if tanking DID count for assists

It's all possible but people prefer to rage and say NO NO NO instead of thinking of a fair way to make it work

dont think i've seen anyone rage. you did overly use caps once or twice tho, not sure if it counts ? people are just discussing how it doesn't make sense to receive free gold for essentially playing badly, which i believe is the point of thread in the board, right? I even tried to have a open mind about the suggestion, which is why i asked for scenarios where this feature would actually reward a good play. Cant say i'm surprise that there isnt any yet.

btw, 5gold/3sec is op, in fact ward giving gold for vision is, everyone would spam their ward in a lane for easy gold. and how would even go around that, since sometimes ward in the middle of a lane is actually good ward. at first it can seem like a nice idea, (just like the one about getting money for tanking), but in fact those arent really good for the game and wont bring anything useful.

Noctius28Jun 25, 20151 votes

I don't know how to bold words in this so I use ADC to point out the important parts, not as a rage but that's not important

My point is people are not thinking of how it might work, just of how it wouldn't and that doesn't help anyone

And the 5 per 3 scenario was for the enemy to STAND in the ward vision for that time to get the gold, not constantly

They would have to stay for 3 seconds under the same ward to get that 5 gold

But yes it would need limitations like:

Can only work every 10 seconds or so (3 seconds and get 5 gold, then only happens if again after 10 seconds) Doesnt count for multiple enemies under the same ward (meaning if there were 2 enemies under ward vision you would still only receive 5 gold) Does not count if there is any other source of vision (tower, minion, champion, scuttle)

Is that still op? if it is what are you solutions without just saying "It's wrong and shouldn't happen"

RisurinJun 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't know how to bold words in this so I use ADC to point out the important parts, not as a rage but that's not important

My point is people are not thinking of how it might work, just of how it wouldn't and that doesn't help anyone

And the 5 per 3 scenario was for the enemy to STAND in the ward vision for that time to get the gold, not constantly

They would have to stay for 3 seconds under the same ward to get that 5 gold

But yes it would need limitations like:

Can only work every 10 seconds or so (3 seconds and get 5 gold, then only happens if again after 10 seconds) Doesnt count for multiple enemies under the same ward (meaning if there were 2 enemies under ward vision you would still only receive 5 gold) Does not count if there is any other source of vision (tower, minion, champion, scuttle)

Is that still op? if it is what are you solutions without just saying "It's wrong and shouldn't happen"

You seem to forget an essential part, to your suggestion. Arent they suppose to be their improve the game ? what are you improving ? This is why my discussion is centered around why i think its not a good idea to reward someone for his misplay, when essentially when they played their tank correctly they will get all the assist to begin with.

Same goes for the ward, why should it give gold for giving vision, when having the vision of the area is already the reward for purchasing the ward ? and if you are going to make it with so many rules, why make the change to begin with ?

Noctius28Jun 25, 20151 votes

So other characters besides the ADC and the AP carry can get some gold to itemize, basically because of that

So other characters besides the damage dealers are rewarded for their work

You are improving the game by making it more enjoyable to play the essential roles that currently give no in-game rewards for the job, warding for supports and Tanking for tanks

Why do you think alot of people refuse to play support? because it's not fun to help someone else and get nothing for it

These changes are suggestions to help people want to play these roles

And I made this post so people could help find decent ways to make it work, not so people can say it's stupid and refuse to try and find a way to make it work

You can point out the flaws, as you should, but you should also try to think of a way it could work, not just refuse to have it at all

RisurinJun 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So other characters besides the ADC and the AP carry can get some gold to itemize, basically because of that

So other characters besides the damage dealers are rewarded for their work

You are improving the game by making it more enjoyable to play the essential roles that currently give no in-game rewards for the job, warding for supports and Tanking for tanks

Why do you think alot of people refuse to play support? because it's not fun to help someone else and get nothing for it

These changes are suggestions to help people want to play these roles

And I made this post so people could help find decent ways to make it work, not so people can say it's stupid and refuse to try and find a way to make it work

You can point out the flaws, as you should, but you should also try to think of a way it could work, not just refuse to have it at all

alright, first of the flaw i pointed out, is that it reward people for not playing correctly. Something the game shouldn't have. I think everyone that are actively trying their best to win the game are getting rewarded correctly for their plays.

IMO, tank don't share the possible issue of support. You see, with Cinderhulk and the tank meta that followed it, i'm pretty sure tanks are in a good spot right now, and don't need excuses for free gold. As for Support, I would say that the reason they are so unpopular, is that the community in general (specially in the low brackets) don't how much they can actually influence the game. I'm not even talking about mere warding, they are literally the strongest champion bot lane during the early phase, they are the play maker champion at all stages of the game. Yes, for some people that don't understand their importance it might seem like they aren't fun to play, but their is plenty out there that know the true power of a good support. There is more to tank play then just soaking damage, and their is much more to support play then just warding.

For example, when i see a GP support, that save his Q for farming targons stack, i know that this player doesn't know how good support are. Alternatively, when i see a Bard support, that play forward, and pressure the lane, roam when he has the opportunity, gank the other lane, secure vision control for his team, that's a player that know how great and useful support are. Both get rewarded for their good plays in the game, both get punished for bad plays in the same game, just like every other roles. Maybe you don't understand this yet, because you are tunneling on "assists" and big numbers, but currently everyone that are playing their role correctly are already getting rewarded for it, and there is no need to reward something that isnt good play.

Now your suggestion is literally giving people free gold, for a misplay, if someone else turn it around. That's just not good for healthy gameplay. You want a suggestion tho, don't you ? What about more diverse itemization or different mastery trees? I think there is many other way to improve the gameplay, without going down the line of bland free gold for misplaying.

RisurinJun 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

reconsider who is the real noob now.... Tipps: The one that blew all the ults up from the enemy team, while his teammates were near around (not following) or the teammates, that did not follow, watched him die, doing no objects, flame him, ace the enemy team after.

Simpler: The one that do the kills or the one that prepares all the kills?

I, as a part-time support, would LOVE to see wards giving assists. I would FINALLY not be the only one warding and getting flamed (SUPPORT, WHERE THE FK ARE WARDS?!) "Pings 3 locations + the pink ward" (NEED MORE VISION; NUBSUPPORT! Allchat: REPORT OUR SUPPORT; NOT WARDING!!!!!)

(Gold 1, and I still do have discussions like this... not kidding here)

everyone get bad teammates once in a while. i still dont think it justify ward giving free assist, it may help warding, but at what point should the game stop help warding, it already give everyone a free ward that doesnt take an inventory space...

So you are telling me, that the grand and genius play that one guy did, is to walk into 5 guy to make them all trigger their ultimate at once, so his team can win the team fight they could happen right after. yeah, not sure people can actually plan all that so easily... But in any case, the point doesnt really change much right ? The 1 guy running alone is misplaying. going 1v5 is stupid regardless of what you trying to do. the other guy are misplaying as well, blowing 5 ultimate for only 1 kill when their team is nearby is a big mistake. people did their misplay, a gave up advantage accordingly. 1 guy gave a kill for free, the opponent team gave 5 because they over commit to one guy. There is absolutely no reason why that 1 guy runnign alone, doing no damage, no CC, just running should get 5 assist.

to be clear : Its not him being useful by getting the ult off the opponent team, its the opponent misplaying by using all their ultimate for 1 guy.

Iron IV dudeJun 25, 20151 votes

Thats like saying "He misplayed because soraka healed his enemy with ult" Without him, not a kill would have been fallen right? So he assisted, and should get assists for it, no matter if he intended to help or not :D

Do have in mind tho, that the assist timer is quite short (10seconds!) so its not much time for the team to get the kills

RisurinJun 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Thats like saying "He misplayed because soraka healed his enemy with ult" Without him, not a kill would have been fallen right? So he assisted, and should get assists for it, no matter if he intended to help or not :D

Do have in mind tho, that the assist timer is quite short (10seconds!) so its not much time for the team to get the kills

Could you tell me what are you referring to? Regardless, rewarding someone because his misplay could help the team in a way (example some got caught, but didnt hurt anyone. yet his team get an ace right after.) is literally like saying the duo bot lane should get an assist from the kill the jungle and top laner scored in the upper river, because they are technically helping the team by holding their position on the turret, and without them the jungle would have to hold bot and no kill would had fallen. You see the problem with that ? This isnt like HotS where everything is shared with the team, this is a different game after all. If people make a play, and i didnt contribute directly to that play, even though it could be the follow up of my misplay, i shouldn't not get rewarded for it. That's just doesn't make sense with this game. On the other hand, if i manage to get them low, CC them, heck literally 1 auto-attack is enough, before my team can collapse and get something back out of it, i already get rewarded, so you see this suggestion only help people that arent even really part of the fight, but are merely getting hit somehow.

Let's try another fun example :

lets say your team has a nidalee jungle. she place 2 traps, one top and one mid. She gank botlane. 5 second before nidalee death in that gank, your opponent top and mid laners step on their lane traps. With this suggestion, mid and top just got a free assist for stepping on a trap. How is that better gameplay ? How is that great idea ? A while ago, riot nerfed global gold turret gave, and made it more focus on local gold (you get most of turret gold, by being near it when its destroyed), and this suggestion would go literally against that change. Even the suggestion of a damage threshold is absurd. I dont understand why someone that got freely chunked for X amount of damage (since a simple auto attack would give him a nice assist already) should get rewarded. Even if he was body blocking poke damage, why is his team then fighting the 4v5 with the frontline out ? oh ? they make the 4v5 ? then your team is so far ahead it doesnt matter at all, if they get poked or not, and in fact why didnt you just engage on them ?

And i mean, as i say before, if you are currently playing a tank correctly, you will get gold already. The only time this change would mean something, is when people get caught and destroyed instantly or when people get poked to death freely. Both are misplay and shouldnt be rewarded.

This suggestion is basically free gold and kdA for misplaying.

Iron IV dudeJun 26, 20151 votes

Nah, all i ask for is, how to make zoning and tanking feel more rewarding. But after all, i really don't care, i stopped playing for the adc/apc and take the kills instead, that feels rewarding, dieng for your adc and dont get any assisst or dieng while tanking, does not.

And as it seems, no one wants it to feel rewarding, one reason why support still is the least famous role.

RisurinJun 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Nah, all i ask for is, how to make zoning and tanking feel more rewarding. But after all, i really don't care, i stopped playing for the adc/apc and take the kills instead, that feels rewarding, dieng for your adc and dont get any assisst or dieng while tanking, does not.

And as it seems, no one wants it to feel rewarding, one reason why support still is the least famous role.

And as expect, you are another example of player that dont quite understand the game ^^. A lot of people dont want to play tank and support, because they simply dont understand how it is played, and then assume those dont do anything. Although, for the most part, people have this weird mentality that they need to absolutely carry every single game, or its a loss. You dont even need to be doing anything in most games, you just need to not be doing badly. That's why roles like supports are maybe less popular, people weirdly believe they cant carry games, when they actually perfectly can. I don't main support, and yet i enjoy the role so much, simply because of that. It's not really complicated and you can carry games so much with your good play. Hell, i only need to place 1 auto or land one spell, damage, CC, buff anything, and i get all the assists around me. Playing with a good support, is so enjoyable. But hey, you do you and play w/e you want in your games, but if you believe tanks, in this tank-ish meta, arent getting rewarded for their good, then you are just wrong.

And really just, think about it, i'm sure you can do it, when would a tank be actually just taking damage, not be able to land a single spell or auto attack on anyone, and yet is playing well their tank role? If you die without doing anything to get an assist, you got caught out of position, and it doesn't make sense to be rewarded for such a thing.

In the current state of the game, if you are the front line, tanking meaningful damage, while your team is fighting, you will get assists/kills. If instead you are just being poked out and then your team decide to fight 4v5, while you are in no position to do anything, why should you get any assists/kill gold ? in the latter, you literally did nothing during that fight, hence why you didnt get any assist (literally 1 auto attack or spell is needed).

This is aimed to be able to help tank get more money, right? While they have some of the cheapest items in the game too... And more importantly, you are going about it with a change that would hit everyone actually. I dont see why a mid laner or adc wouldnt be able to get this suggested assist money for literally getting one shotted out of position (example,** jayce E-Q-Kill a caitlyn, someone kill jayce, and then Caitlyn would get the same assist suggested**, this doesnt change because you have more defences, so its not even something specially for tanks, whom dont really need help right now, but for everyone that is getting caught while their team is playing well. That's why this suggestion is not good)

Iron IV dudeJun 29, 20151 votes

While I do understand the game quite well, and know that most supports and tanks solo handed carry their dds, it still doesn't make it feel rewarding (for me). And to your last example, if it would be a mastery, coming late in the tank masteries, caitlyn would never get an assign (only if it would be tank caitlyn). I found my way to play and to have fun, just thought i give fun to those, who might have the same problems as I had. Just as example, what are the first names that come into mind when you think of lcs players? Faker, Froggen, Bjergsen, maybe Dyrus. Not KiWiKid, Aphromoo or LemonNation.. But your arguments are not wrong at all, so I guess there need to be other ways around it.

RisurinJun 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

While I do understand the game quite well, and know that most supports and tanks solo handed carry their dds, it still doesn't make it feel rewarding (for me). And to your last example, if it would be a mastery, coming late in the tank masteries, caitlyn would never get an assign (only if it would be tank caitlyn). I found my way to play and to have fun, just thought i give fun to those, who might have the same problems as I had. Just as example, what are the first names that come into mind when you think of lcs players? Faker, Froggen, Bjergsen, maybe Dyrus. Not KiWiKid, Aphromoo or LemonNation.. But your arguments are not wrong at all, so I guess there need to be other ways around it.

Well, if we think lcs, we probably arent thinking Faker (he plays on LCK lol.). But Aphromoo, YellowStar and Lustboy are often names i see come up when speaking of lcs players. In fact, last world, the MVP of the whole tournament, was a support (he got the mvp award). So i dont think this is true as of right now, while it might have been in the past, it just isnt anymore. That's why i put so much emphasis how good support can be if played well. It may not feel rewarding because, even if you play support well, if have a buffoon playing adc, the lane isnt going to go anywhere. But, the same could be said if the players were swapped (skilled adc with a not so good support).

I said you do you back then, if thats how you have fun, then thats perfectly fine. It doesnt mean that tank need a weird mechanics to help them out.

This is the first time i read of a mastery doing just this, but i'll you this question in return : Which mastery you gonna take down for this one ? I feel this is almost runic blessing level of a mastery (remember that 50 hp shield on respawn ? LOL), so i dont see too many people being happy about losing their bonus defences or damage reduction for a mastery that should be up too often. + gold generation masteries usually end up in the utility tree, so it feels a bit out of place too.

DrCyanideJun 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

reconsider who is the real noob now.... Tipps: The one that blew all the ults up from the enemy team, ...

Wow, that escalated quickly. Who said anything about ults? It could have just as easily been a Morgana Binding, an Elise Cocoon, and a Yasuo Wind Wall.

Ultimately, the question is best answered by intention. Was the player intentionally trying to bait out the abilities (say, the area was warded, team close behind, player is a tank, etc) or was it unintentional, them running into an unwarded area or even intentionally feeding.

My point is that while these alternative ways to get assists look nice as a "that will help me earn gold", it would trivialize assists. As a result, I'd expect Riot to lower the gold per assist, making players have to work to get more assists, etc.

As for the whole "anything that helped get a kill" mentality, it's hard to measure. The enemy team seeing your jungler top lane and starting a 3v2 on bot lane, resulting in a triple kill for your ADC is in part due to your jungler being seen top lane and thinking it was safe to engage there. Or was it? Maybe they were going to gank regardless of where the jungler was. This is the problem with these other assist ideas, they aren't clear cut.

The EcdysiastJun 24, 20153 votes

Too bad no matter how many upvotes you get, Riot won't fix this because every other tank has multiple or AOE CC to use.

RisurinJun 24, 20153 votes

let's say you dont hit an enemy at all, as you are too far away to do so, but on his dying breath, that champion launch a ranged AoE ability to hurt his killer as much as possible as he dies. You get hit by this abiliy slightly before he dies (still out of range to influence the fight). Do you feel like you deserve an assist, since technically you tanked some damage ?

For clarity :

lets say a Blue Team's Xerath is in the middle of top side's river, and is trying to snipe a low hp Red Team's Maokai top lane. He gets one shot of his Rite of the Arcane [R] on target, but before being able to shoot the rest of his ultimate, Red team's Kha'Zix comes out of the jungle and insta-gib his isolated prey (Xerath). Why would Maokai get an assist for basically failing at dodgeing an ability correctly ?

In counterpart, let's say you are a tank in team fights. Usually, tanks have at least one AoE ability somewhere in their kits, and have access to many items that will in a way or another give them an assist ( item 3190 , item 3068 , item 3110 , item 3800 , item 3143 , item 3075 , etc) and event a single auto attack can help to do so.

Unless you are getting literally kited to death or just getting poked to death before an actual team fight start, there isnt many situation i can see where you wouldnt get assists while fulfilling your tank role. Maybe you can give me an example of such scenario ?

KazaashiJun 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

let's say you dont hit an enemy at all, as you are too far away, but on his dying breath, that champion launch a ranged aoe to hurt his enemy as much as possible as he dies. You get hit by this abiliy slightly before he dies (still out of range to influence the fight). Do you feel like you deserve an assist, since technically you tanked some damage ?

For clarity :

lets say a Blue Team's Xerath is in the middle of top side's river, and is trying to snipe a low hp Red Team's Maokai top lane. He gets one shot of his Rite of the Arcane [R] on target, but before being able to shoot the rest of his ultimate, Red team's Kha'Zix comes out of the jungle and insta-gib his isolated prey (Xerath). Why would Maokai get an assist for basically failing at dodgeing an ability correctly ?

What if the Maokai intentionally walked into the Ult range to bait him to wait for the ally Kha'Zix to jump him? Sure he failed the dodge part, but still baited the ult and got the jungler a kill.

I know that, ultimately, this, like tying LP gains/losses to individual game performance, is not really possible to code something like this that is not exploitable, but in a perfect world it's a good idea.

In counterpart, let's say you are a tank in team fights. Usually, tanks have at least one AoE ability somewhere in their kits, and have access to many items that will in a way or another give them an assist (, , , , ,, etc) and event a single auto attack can help to do so.

Unless you are getting literally kited to death or just getting poked to death before an actual team fight start, there isnt many situation i can see where you wouldnt get assists while doing fulfilling your tank role. Maybe you can give me an example of such scenario ?

Malphite attempts to ult the enemy Vayne , but she tumbles out of the way and proceeds to stun the Malph against a wall with Condemn. As the Condemn lands, the enemy Ahri around the corner charms the Vayne and blows her up instantly.

Malph should get an assist as he caused the Vayne to use Tumble and Condemn so the Ahri could blow her up with ease.

RisurinJun 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

What if the Maokai intentionally walked into the Ult range to bait him to wait for the ally Kha'Zix to jump him? Sure he failed the dodge part, but still baited the ult and got the jungler a kill.

I know that, ultimately, this, like tying LP gains/losses to individual game performance, is not really possible to code something like this that is not exploitable, but in a perfect world it's a good idea.

The issue here, is that Maokai would be getting gold for something noone can really be sure he was doing on purpose to begin with ? and in fact, would be getting gold, because Kha'Zix was at the right place at the right moment. This doesn't sound entirely like a good idea to me, or even something that would improve gameplay in general.

attempts to ult the enemy , but she tumbles out of the way and proceeds to stun the Malph against a wall with Condemn. As the Condemn lands, the enemy Ahri around the corner charms the Vayne and blows her up instantly.

Malph should get an assist as he caused the Vayne to use Tumble and Condemn so the Ahri could blow her up with ease.

I disagree.

1st Vayne's Tumble is exactly the same range as the AoE of Malphite's Unstoppable Force, so its unlikely tumble will help her get out of it, unless Malphite was aiming his ultimate badly to begin with.

2nd If we assume instead, Vayne uses Flash out of the ultimate and Condemn the Malphite. This is a 1.5s stun. If in that time Ahri is able to kill her, i don't think she needed Malphite to get the kill, ult or not, which is correctly displayed as not assists for Malphite. Otherwise, Again, you would see a tank getting gold, for essentially not playing correctly (not aiming his ultimate correctly/didnt consider flash), and got outplayed, while a teammate was essential at the right place at the right time to get the kill.

In both examples, the tank is essentially getting saved by a teammate, and not really doing anything except getting caught out in a misplay. There is more to Tank Role then just taking damage.

Rinky DinkyJun 25, 20152 votes

By that same token, I don't deserve an assist when I like w on sona just for the heal to heal a near fully healed ally just for the assist.

It is a double edged sword.

RisurinJun 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lane Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIet9I8e,comment-id=00110002,timestamp=2015-06-25T07:05:01.459+0000)

By that same token, I don't deserve an assist when I like w on sona just for the heal to heal a near fully healed ally just for the assist.

It is a double edged sword.

My point was that being at the right place at the right time should be awarded (in your case, an assist for pressing W near your team) whereas getting hit isn't something to be rewarded for, even for tanks, since there is more to tanks then being hit for free (which in fact happen when mispositioning). if you review my examples, the tank is always in a poor position or getting outplayed, and is literally getting saved by someone that is at the right position at the right time.

That's the whole difference between healing a full hp target that isnt even getting hit for an assist, and, as the change suggest, getting an assist because you are being hit. Tanks have plenty of tools already to get them assists in actual team fights (from their kits or itemization), so its not even like this change is needed. It will basically only reward people for misplaying.

As i said previously, there isnt, if any, scenarios where a tank is playing his role well and doesnt get the rewards for it. This change will reward people for misplay turned around by their teammates more then actually rewarding them for playing a tank well. This just doesn't sound like something we need in the game.

this is just like those players that get caught and die, but their team collapse well on their opponents and manage to get some kills out of that misplay and then claim they were baiting.

Rinky DinkyJun 25, 20151 votes

Tahm Kench 0_o

RisurinJun 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lane Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIet9I8e,comment-id=0011000200000000,timestamp=2015-06-25T19:11:24.648+0000)

Tahm Kench 0_o

hum ? yes ? thats the new champion...

SolusInCadereJun 25, 20153 votes

here is what I think:

A lot of comments have talked about coner cases involving global ults, item 3068 , etc, where people are getting assists when they are not actually contributing to the fight. So I propose that you gain an assist from the following two actions:

getting hit with a single target skill shot. Yes, there will be times when it was intentionally aimed at you, but this is not common for a tank.

auras should grant assists whenever it buffs/debuffs a champion. Allied champions buffed by an aura getting a kill and enemies beign debuffed dying. These assists may be for modified gold if the aura was the only thing contributed

this eliminates the cases where an AOE was launched right before death and you happened to be in it

edit: considering that Tahm has his ult, and i think its aoe, to initiate a teamfight, he could hit multiple enemies with it to get multiple assists. Not sure if this is common in reality, but it is a point in theoryland

Knight SoIaire Jun 24, 20152 votes

assisting in a kill thats what it is

standing nearby and getting hit does not make your ally kill the enemy faster or smore efficient if you shield/buff your ally you again directly help him get that kill

assists come only from direct contribution ... not from just being present

Noctius28Jun 24, 20155 votes

assists come only from direct contribution ... not from just being present

The damage you are taking is damage the one getting the kill is avoiding, therefore you are helping in the kill watch the video, watch the situation and THEN comment

Is a Braum shielding his team not contributing? even if he isn't directly dealing damage? Is a Tahm taking out the main damage of the enemy not contributing? Is simply being a wall in general for enemy skillshots in a teamfight not contributing?

Blocking is utility, stuns and snares and slows are utility, yet stuns are worthy of assist yet blocking damage is not, what is the difference between a janna giving a shield or a Nautilus blocking a cait ulti? Nothing, they both avoided damage to the carry, yet janna get assist if your carry kill while Nauti stays in the wind with less health

DisasterSolaJun 24, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIet9I8e,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-06-24T09:46:26.593+0000)

assisting in a kill thats what it is

standing nearby and getting hit does not make your ally kill the enemy faster or smore efficient if you shield/buff your ally you again directly help him get that kill

assists come only from direct contribution ... not from just being present

Have you never heard of the concept of a decoy? In Tahms case, youre much more an HP tank than a true tank - you build HP while at the same time doing damage. Similar to vlad. By taking the heat for an ally you allow your allies to focus their fire on priority targets.

Or do you think Decoys in the armed forces dont deserve those purple hearts because "they didnt help"?

Variks the LoyalJun 24, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIet9I8e,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-06-24T09:46:26.593+0000)

assisting in a kill thats what it is

standing nearby and getting hit does not make your ally kill the enemy faster or smore efficient if you shield/buff your ally you again directly help him get that kill

assists come only from direct contribution ... not from just being present

Yes, it does.

If you're taking the hits, you're ally isn't, so your ally can output damage. Ergo, you're helping make their kill more efficient.

Akali MIA CareJun 29, 20152 votes

Or you could build thornmail and/or the MR version of it they're making, that way when you get hit you deal damage to them and you get assists.

Come on guys, getting gold for standing still and taking damage? that's just lazy.