Mystery Champs made me learn a very important lesson!

Noctius28··27 votes·2,308 views

So after I received my mystery champ (Diana) I decided to take her out for a spin after practicing in custom

I usually play either top or adc So going mid was something kinda new to me

I faced a Ryze Being my first time with Diana I played passively and kept a safe distance whenever possible But once level 3 came he trapped me and killed me before I could say WTF!

I worried that he would come back to lane with the damages but no, he only got mana items "Well he can stay in lane longer but I have more damage now" I assumed

He was pushed with a 1 level advantage And so my Lee came to gank He jumped, I jumped, we used everything but with his ulti on he stayed alive long enough to kill Lee and leave me by about 30 hp before we killed him Note this is without any damage items, just mana

I started thinking this shit was op as balls!! For the rest of the game we avoided Ryze like a plague and still the only thing he built was mana until he started a Rod of Ages When it came time to teamfights the only way we could win was if our Cho silenced him, else he alone would murder all of us

More certain was I that Ryze was op as all hell right now

After the game I decided I was gonna make a post about how op he was and that he needed a nerf

But before I could I found a post about people demanding Kalista nerfs As I read I understood the one complaining must have never played AS Kalista because his arguments showed a lack of knowledge about her weaknesses

He claimed she was a monster early game I am no Kalista main but I do play her from time to time And in no way would I qualify her early as anything but trash when compared to other ADCs

And that got me thinking... Is Ryze really op or were we just bad against him? So I decided instead of bashing and demanding nerfs like an idiot I am going to do my research!

I am going to pick up Ryze for the next couple of games and see how powerful he really is or how easy/hard he is to play BEFORE raging about him

I will try to learn his weaknesses and where he shines Both so I can make a good argument if he is op and to have a better chance against him in the future ^^

I would advice most people who cry OP to do the same, at the very least so you can make a decent argument when you do complain

PS: Thanks Rito for Diana, never knew I could have so much fun with an AP champ ^^

50 Comments

OhBoyItsaMegaman6 votes

I worried that he would come back to lane with the damages but no, he only got mana items "Well he can stay in lane longer but I have more damage now" I assumed

Note this is without any damage items, just mana

Yes, some research is in order. :)

All of Ryze's abilities become stronger the more max mana he has. Ryze was one of the original champions and this has always been true.

Noctius281 votes

{quoted}

"Well he can stay in lane longer but I have more damage now" I assumed

Yes, some research is in order. :)

All of Ryze's abilities become stronger the more max mana he has. Ryze was one of the original champions and this has always been true.

There are many things I don't about the game, only recently did I know Darius gains ms when he puts bleed stack on people

And now thanks to you I learned Ryze gains damage with mana

More research is in order but thanks for the info ^^

TheXtractor3 votes

How come you are level 30 and haven't seen a ryze before :O? maybe I leveled when there were a lot less champs (since i hit 30 before s2 even started) but you should really try to play every champion at least once.

Every time a new free2play rotation comes, play every free2play champion once or twice in co-op just to read their abilities and see how they work. You'll learn all the champs in no time ;).

Noctius281 votes

{quoted}

How come you are level 30 and haven't seen a ryze before :O? maybe I leveled when there were a lot less champs (since i hit 30 before s2 even started) but you should really try to play every champion at least once.

Every time a new free2play rotation comes, play every free2play champion once or twice in co-op just to read their abilities and see how they work. You'll learn all the champs in no time ;).

I don't usually go mid so facing a Ryze is rare, plus I hadn't seen one since the rework, I tried him a couple of times when I started playing but didn't like him so never played him again, that was over 2 years ago

Apart from the snare I kinda forgot what he did =P

But now I'm getting the habit of trying every champ in free rotation, that is how I found out about Renekton, both how fun he is and how to fight him

Thanks for the feedback ^^

I Main Swain1 votes

only recently did I know Darius gains ms when he puts bleed stack on people

...he what?

Noctius282 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Main Swain,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=9rJTel4F,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2015-07-03T16:19:47.678+0000)

...he what?

Darius gains 5% movement speed for each bleeding enemy champion.

Heard it from a couple of guide then searched the wiki and it confirmed

agbudar2 votes

25% movespeed in team fights talk about hidden power. its his bloodlust.

insaiyanbacca2 votes

he gets real fast around women.

ok im so so so sorry plz why did i do this?

ShuffledPancake4 votes

You died to a lvl 3 ryze? he cant even snare you often enough? and you have minions?

Noctius283 votes

{quoted}

You died to a lvl 3 ryze? he cant even snare you often enough? and you have minions?

As I said I am not bashing, I am going to study before bashing anything

He was level 3 yes what do you mean he can't snare? I had minions yes

ShuffledPancake2 votes

he cant snare you often enough, is what i said.. which he cant unless you stand there still.. if you have minions then he cant hit you with q but dodge e. he didnt have ult so its easy.

Noctius281 votes

{quoted}

he cant snare you often enough, is what i said.. which he cant unless you stand there still.. if you have minions then he cant hit you with q but dodge e. he didnt have ult so its easy.

I went to cs and before his first snare finished I was dead As I said no point in discussing this without me actually playing the championj

ShuffledPancake2 votes

If you can provide video of this happening? his snare is short he is super weak early.

Noctius283 votes

{quoted}

If you can provide video of this happening? his snare is short he is super weak early.

his snare wasn't long (I think) but his damage was enough to kill me before I could escape

ShuffledPancake2 votes

60 dmg + maybe around 15

The Lexer6 votes

What about his E? and maybe his Q? You know Ryze has this thing called a kit. All champions have it

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Honestly, you're right. It doesn't take playing the champ to know something's wrong with them. But the issue here isn't that Ryze is particularly powerful early, it's that: You were a melee champion against a ranged champion who has a targeted snare. This is the reason people play Ryze top. It makes laning and poking incredibly easy when the opponent is melee. So when they don't exactly know how to play top and get stuck with the role, or played top and got their shit kicked by a Ryze as Garen, they copy it.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Ryze gets 30% CDR in his passive, so it is up pretty often. Late game it becomes a near perma-snare.

ZENEESER17 votes

To be fair level 3 Diana isn't exactly a force to be reckoned with.

ShuffledPancake2 votes

Neither is a ryze

Ancestor0075 votes

I disagree. With passive up: Q-W-Q-E-Q ignite is honestly a lot of damage

The Bíg Ticket3 votes

Kalista actually is incredilby op earlygame rofl.

Soul of Selesnya1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=9rJTel4F,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-07-03T19:53:37.522+0000)

Kalista actually is incredilby op earlygame rofl.

I'll humor you. You probably lost early game to a Kalista a few times. Early game, she plays safe and farms, she has neither the AS not the AD to do any crazy stuff. You probably lost to her because you positioned very aggressively and got punished.

Abarcine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soul of Selesnya,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=9rJTel4F,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-07-03T23:58:31.905+0000)

I'll humor you. You probably lost early game to a Kalista a few times. Early game, she plays safe and farms, she has neither the AS not the AD to do any crazy stuff. You probably lost to her because you positioned very aggressively and got punished.

Isn't Kalista's early game at the very least respectable because if you AA a creep before the trade and then your lane opponent you can E and reset the CD and just repeat while other ADCs sit on the CD of their abilities? Isn't this why she's able to come out ahead in trades so often?

The Bíg Ticket1 votes

Rofl...no she doen't autowin any trade in the first few levels...this guy from Silver V clearly knows better.

Soul of Selesnya1 votes

{quoted}

Isn't Kalista's early game at the very least respectable because if you AA a creep before the trade and then your lane opponent you can E and reset the CD and just repeat while other ADCs sit on the CD of their abilities? Isn't this why she's able to come out ahead in trades so often?

Hm, good point. Her early game isn't "incredibly op" though.

The Bíg Ticket1 votes

Lmao...alright...I trust your experience from your Silver V/Bronze games. That is where people play Kalista to her full potential and hence know her limitations and strengths there.

Soul of Selesnya1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=9rJTel4F,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2015-07-04T11:59:56.059+0000)

Lmao...alright...I trust your experience from your Silver V/Bronze games. That is where people play Kalista to her full potential and hence know her limitations and strengths there.

Have you seen the nerfs yet?

The Bíg Ticket1 votes

Yes but the nerfs are not live yet...so I don't know why you are trying to talk down to me when you are Silver V with barely 300 normal games when I have played over 2000 normal, 1000 ranked and roughly 1000 ARAMs over 3 seasons (ranked Platinum)....its funny how you are trying to "humour" me...how about you actually educate yourself and recognize you have no clue about this game (which is why you are Silver V with Bronze MMR) before "humouring" other guys who have ten times as much experience in this game than you. I am not even gonna bother trying to explain to you how Kalista outtrades any adc at level 1 but to make it easy for you..name me one adc who beats her in a straight up trade in the first levels.

Soul of Selesnya1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=9rJTel4F,comment-id=00040000000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-04T19:52:23.388+0000)

Yes but the nerfs are not live yet...so I don't know why you are trying to talk down to me when you are Silver V with barely 300 normal games when I have played over 2000 normal, 1000 ranked and roughly 1000 ARAMs over 3 seasons (ranked Platinum)....its funny how you are trying to "humour" me...how about you actually educate yourself and recognize you have no clue about this game (which is why you are Silver V with Bronze MMR) before "humouring" other guys who have ten times as much experience in this game than you. I am not even gonna bother trying to explain to you how Kalista outtrades any adc at level 1 but to make it easy for you..name me one adc who beats her in a straight up trade in the first levels.

Ok, maybe you're right. However, I do watch streams, where almost no Master+ player says Kalista is "OP" in any way, shape, or form.

On a side note, now that I've read my comment, I understand why it may have come across as patronizing or superior. I hope there are no hard feelings. : )

The Bíg Ticket1 votes

Aye...maybe I overreacted...sorry about that then.

Soul of Selesnya1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=9rJTel4F,comment-id=0004000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-04T21:16:33.291+0000)

Aye...maybe I overreacted...sorry about that then.

It's ok. No heard feelings.

Syb3r2 votes

well ya i think thats a pretty valid point I would always say that yasuo was just a more defensive yi but then I got him ad realized that he takes a lot of precision and is actually hard to master

SoMNia2 votes

Yeah, Ryze's free damage from mana, and his cooldown-erasing passive, are pretty obnoxious. His level 3 burst with just starting items is obscene. I remember the first time he hit me with a full round of spells and I thought "Okay, he has cooldowns, so I can finish him off!" Nope. :/ I should have read his update summary.

Grats on Diana! I'm looking to get her, myself. No mystery champ for me, because ew, Facebook. D:

IcyPepper1 votes

Yeah, Ryze's free damage from mana,

It's not really free damage if he scales with it... and he still has to buy it (some champions don't even have to buy mana!).

It's cheap and effective damage, but I wouldn't say "free."

SoMNia1 votes

Other champions whose abilities are gated by mana have to choose between getting more mana or getting more damage. When he buys mana (which they do anyway), he also gets damage. How is that not free damage? XD

IcyPepper1 votes

raises hand

pauses

lowers hand

Well you got me there.

Soul of Selesnya2 votes

I really wish I got Diana... Instead I get Karma.

Nekro Gaming2 votes

The damage on most of ryze abilities scale with mana... Yea.. Full mana ryze is broken.

insaiyanbacca2 votes

well i mean ryze can kill people with only mana items cause his skills have a max mana pool scaling on them....

The Loveless1 votes

Trundle was my mystery champ!!!! ^_^

Chaotic Reks1 votes

best example is Evelynn. this bitch will 2 shot everything late game

Vellich0r1 votes

Kalista is picked for many reasons in competitive and one of those is her early game power. I am not saying LCS is the end all be all of what a champion is, but I am pretty sure Kalista has a strong early game.

Sphecelated1 votes

At least you got a champion. I don't own bard or Ekko, but somehow it said I owned all champions and gave me a morgana skin when I already have like 3 for her anyways.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

I think they made it so that if you have 10 or less champs left, they give a skin instead

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

Build MR. Ryze counters champions with a weak early game / no gap closers. His early game is actually quite weak. Once his passive is off he's crazy vulnerable. His Root will be on a long cooldown and he will have sapped most or all of his mana. He counters Diana because the period where he's weak (around 1-5, depending on your CS and items that come from it) is also the period where Diana is weak.

Baron of Bread1 votes

Good luck with learning Ryze! I have found him to be a ton of fun when I have gotten to play him.

He is supposed to be a hyper-carry, but he does have some pretty serious damage early if you don't keep creeps between you when his passive is nearly up.

RisenDarkKnight1 votes

Ryze is pretty strong but kalista is definitely the strongest early game adc. Her w passive is ludicrously strong lvl 1-3 if you have a ranged support, rend can do a lot of damage early, and her passive makes dodging skillshots or chasing down enemies a breeze. She isn't op (except in the lcs/challenger) and she falls off lategame but people who are good with kalista absolutley dominate the lame early game.

stealthfox941 votes

Diana is a fun snowbally champ who can do tons of damage will being fairly tanky. That being said her early game is pretty bad.

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