can we talk about AP junglers for a bit

outside of (who is ok because he ulti is horribly overturned)

most ap jungler are in a bad spot...

is MUCH better as a mid laner right now, and even support is like non existent in the jungle OR mid lane is "ok" i guess but i dont have much data on her and my main is finally viable with the buff to but still iffy unless you are already good at her

and there are clear and obvious reasons why

firstof which is (runic) it gives 60 ap...

AP junglers start with ZERO AP where as AD jungler start with their normal AD

(warrior) gives 60 AD

so right off the bat AD junglers have a advantage because their skills START with damage ratios ... while our skills really are just based damage with w/e minuscule ratio from the runes we have

back when it was enchantment magus... we had 80 ap on our jungle item..

in fact AP for the same price ALWAYS give more AP than AD does BECAUSE AP starts with ZERO AP (among other reasons) then we also got the AP from blue buff removed again this cuts our damage. where as red smite is pretty much the same.. and lastly we lost the 20% mana on smite of a champ

AP junglers NEED mana to clear at the same spear as AD jungler because our auto attacks are weak. and yet every camp now gives 10% hp but NONE of them give MANA...

also BECUASE mana is absultely nesscary EVERY ap jungle NEEDS to rush a complted for the mana reconvery proc while AD can just get the basic and then itemize according to the game..

all this together means that AP jungler's pretty much don't exist.