Nobody likes playing against Illaoi and want her damage nerfed

Pyrithegethon·Dec 20, 2015·23 votes·3,633 views

If she can't deal damage anymore what will she do???

52 Comments

Sneakyy XDDec 20, 20159 votes

Reducing her damage != reducing her damage to 0.

PyrithegethonDec 20, 20156 votes

The point is if you nerf her damage, she loses the only thing her kit offers. Her utility is pretty shit as she relies heavily on damage.

If on a scale of 1 to 5, 5 being the best, she has a 5 damage and a 1 utility currently.

If you nerf her damage to a 4 or 3.5 and keep her utility at 1, she is worthless.

Sneakyy XDDec 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

The point is if you nerf her damage, she loses the only thing her kit offers. Her utility is pretty shit as she relies heavily on damage.

If on a scale of 1 to 5, 5 being the best, she has a 5 damage and a 1 utility currently.

If you nerf her damage to a 4 or 3.5 and keep her utility at 1, she is worthless.

First, what you posted is meaningless without assigning values to every other champion. Second, how is a grab not utility? Third, she's also absurdly durable.

JustMyBassCannonDec 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Second, how is a grab not utility?

It's the ~~second-shortest~~ third-shortest range grab, only longer than Darius' which grabs multiple enemies and Skarner's which is targeted and suppresses them, and it's not even a true grab because it creates a clone of the champion, only transferring about 1/4-1/2 of the damage and 0% of the CC dealt to the clone. And the debuff applied by this grab after the clone is destroyed isn't really that hard to handle.

Her one piece of utility is weaker than every other version of the same ability as far as utility is concerned, and is almost only useful for more damage.

Third, she's also absurdly durable.

She deals damage and she's durable. Great. She's also immobile and has pathetically weak utility. She's in a similar place as Shyvana, replacing Burnout and Dragon's Descent with a bit of utility and more defense.

Sneakyy XDDec 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Her one piece of utility is weaker than every other version of the same ability as far as utility is concerned, and is almost only useful for more damage.

She deals damage and she's durable. Great. She's also immobile and has pathetically weak utility. She's in a similar place as Shyvana, replacing Burnout and Dragon's Descent with a bit of utility and more defense.

Right, it's not as good as other grabs, but you still can't tell me that it isn't decent utility.

She deals a lot of damage and is very durable. Yes, those are very good to have. Immobile? She has a 350 range dash on a 2-4 second cooldown. That's on par with high CDR Riven's mobility, except for the fact that Illaoi's requires a target in range.

JustMyBassCannonDec 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Right, it's not as good as other grabs, but you still can't tell me that it isn't decent utility.

I can, and I am.

Because, unlike every other champ with a grab, it's the only utility in her kit. A grab is nice utility when it has a combo to go with it; not only does she lack any CC to apply after hers, but even if she had them, they wouldn't apply through the clone to the champion.

She deals a lot of damage and is very durable. Yes, those are very good to have. Immobile? She has a 350 range dash on a 2-4 second cooldown. That's on par with high CDR Riven's mobility, except for the fact that Illaoi's requires a target in range.

No, that's not "on par" with Riven's mobility. It's not even on par with Udyr's mobility. You would have to have not played Illaoi to think that a 350-range targeted dash is mobility.

YCitizenSnipsYDec 21, 20152 votes

The grab doesn't need follow up utility, it punishes you for running away.

JustMyBassCannonDec 21, 20152 votes

It punishes you for running away and then standing still.

Not just for running away. If you're smart, the tentacles spawned won't be a problem.

But I'm sure those three words are a massive hindrance for >50% of League players.

YCitizenSnipsYDec 21, 20151 votes

Your right but you know what will be a problem, her wailing on your clone and still dealing damage to you even if you dodging the tentacles. That spell doesn't need anymore utility to follow it up your already looking at taking damage from running away or trying to fight her, which is apparently all she's good for so yeah.

JustMyBassCannonDec 21, 20152 votes

It doesn't even transfer all of the damage she deals to the clone, and if you break it off, you're now out of sight range because she benefits more from sticking to your clone than to you.

All of that aside, she literally tells you her counter-play. Move. She yells that with near half of her combat interactions. If you don't stand around like some lost, tourist git, suddenly you're going to be doing a lot better against her.

YCitizenSnipsYDec 21, 20151 votes

Still doesn't explain why you think she needs more utility. Its already a damned if you do and damned if you don't spell. You either stay and fight a champ made to dish out damage or you run and still take damage.

I'm really lost as to why these boards get to pick and choose which balance rules get to apply. Supposedly the weakness of a juggernaut which she is said to be is kiting. And here you are complaining that she doesn't have sticking power. I guess good damage and good tankyness isn't enough.

JustMyBassCannonDec 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Still doesn't explain why you think she needs more utility.

Wait, what? Since when did I say she needs more utility?

No, what I said was that the reason Illaoi has a lot of damage is because she has almost no defensive abilities and almost no utility in her kit. Her one defensive ability relies on offense (and her opponents being terrible at dodging), and her one utility effect is specifically a gimmick to force fights with enemies.

I don't think she needs more, I'm pointing out that the lack of utility justifies her damage.

Its already a damned if you do and damned if you don't spell. You either stay and fight a champ made to dish out damage or you run and still take damage.

Again, unless you're talking about the rest of her team coming in and engaging after you break line of sight, you're not liable to take more damage once you get out of range, because Illaoi is not near you and it is not hard to dodge the freaking tentacles.

I'm really lost as to why these boards get to pick and choose which balance rules get to apply. Supposedly the weakness of a juggernaut which she is said to be is kiting. And here you are complaining that she doesn't have sticking power. I guess good damage and good tankyness isn't enough.

No, you're just lost, period. You misunderstood what I was saying, and started arguing a case that was never presented in the first place.

YCitizenSnipsYDec 21, 20151 votes

Your literally arguing that her grab is bad because it doesn't have follow up utility. You make it seem like its so worthless when its not. The second that thing lands you fight a juggernaut or get zoned, its a lose lose.

JustMyBassCannonDec 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Your literally arguing that her grab is bad because it doesn't have follow up utility. You make it seem like its so worthless when its not. The second that thing lands you fight a juggernaut or get zoned, its a lose lose.

Is the weakest.

Not "is bad."

It is the weakest of all the grab abilities, because it lacks any follow-up other than "break the clone and hope they're stupid enough to get smacked by spawning tentacles."

You literally cannot argue a case for Illaoi's grab being stronger than Blitzcrank, Thresh, or even Darius who can nab multiple targets. It doesn't transfer 100% of damage, CCing/debuffing it is absolutely worthless because it doesn't transfer, and the vessel debuff is more of an inconvenience than an actual problem for anyone with a working brain.

You can keep misrepresenting my argument, but I'm done responding. Have a good day, hope you find a map and find your way out of here, tourist.

YCitizenSnipsYDec 21, 20151 votes

"You literally cannot argue a case for Illaoi's grab being stronger than Blitzcrank, Thresh," Who says it has to be, she's not a fucking support.

I'm pretty sure Garen is proof that even the smallest amount of utility on a Juggernaut is strong. Call it the weakest and down play it all you want, its still a good utility spell for some one designed to get tanky and deal a lot of damage.

Edit: "hope you find a map and find your way out of here, tourist." Also please stop doing this. I'm more insulted by your attempts to be clever than what you actually said. It pretty bad, witty is not your strong suit, would just leave it out form now on.

RalanrDec 21, 20151 votes

Blitzcrank is actually a fighter/tank. People play him as a support because of his hook.

I'm surprised Riot hasn't changed his role to support.

RalanrDec 20, 20151 votes

If she did poor damage then she'd be ignored. Being durable is only useful when you can get people to focus you. Tanks do this with CC (they usually have a lot of it). Juggernauts do this by being damage threats, that need to be CCed and destroyed by your team.

Juggernauts also have the glaring weakness of slow MS (Garen laughs at this obviously) and short range. Obviously she has decent range with her abilities, but they're very telegraphed. Sometimes there are a lot of tentacles though, so it's difficult to find a safe spot.

Usually you destroy her tentacles when you can. It sucks for non mobile and non durable fighters (like Pantheon and Gangplank) but if you're mobile or durable then you can deal with her.

I've bullied her in lane as Sion.

Sightless66Dec 20, 20152 votes

The utility of the e is mediocre. A cc that can actually lead to a kill is more useful for utility. The main purpose of the e is damage.

Illaoi's dash barely moves her 100 units. It is about as immobile as a champion gets. Calling it riven level motility is an unbelievable exaggeration. Not even remotely true.

She does damage and is durable. She is mediocre or worthless at everything else.

iamleburkDec 21, 20151 votes

But her damage is even less reliable than Lux's. Like all of it is completely and easily avoidable

Dark NephthysDec 20, 20157 votes

My problem with her isn't completely her damage, but it's her sustain...She shouldn't get so much sustain back on top of doing that much damage. Also I really think there should be a CD between when the same person can become a vessel. She has way to much damage and zone control that if she gets just a small lead, you literally can't do anything against her. If she has much more health than you and she pulls your spirit, though it's always smart to fight her so you can reduce the effectiveness of being a vessel, but if she is already winning the lane and you are like half your health, you have no choice but to run back and leave the circle. Then you're zoned out fighting 3 tentacles that feels like they take forever to spawn when you want them to spawn...And as soon as you kill the 3rd tentacle and lose being a vessel, you can walk back and then get hit by it again instantly becoming a vessel again.

If they lowered the sustain down to like 3% or 4% missing health per tentacle hit, and make it so once you exit being a vessel you can't become one for another like...10 seconds, then I'd be fine with everything else on her....Even though her Tentacles deal 160% AD which is extremely high...

TyroneWatermelonDec 20, 20153 votes

It's the fact that her base dmg ad and scaling is so high,thanks to her ult in teamfight when tentacles become untargatable there is no counterplay

PyrithegethonDec 20, 20151 votes

Counter play for when she ults: walk away.

JustMyBassCannonDec 20, 20151 votes

♪Just walk away, make it easy on yourself...

BârdDec 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's the fact that her base dmg ad and scaling is so high,thanks to her ult in teamfight when tentacles become untargatable there is no counterplay

Standing in the middle of an Illaoi ult is akin to standing in a rumble ult for the entire duration. Don't fucking do it.

TyroneWatermelonDec 21, 20151 votes

The problem is that rumble's ult is a straight line which you can dodge,while Illaoi's tentacles are all around you smacking you and untargatable. It's basicly untargatable singer turrets but sometimes dodge able

SiytherDec 20, 20153 votes

i think we could leave the damage but reduce the healing done by tenticles that really is what s so bad about her u can outplay her thats not much of an issue but when she lands a 4 man ulti 5 ppl cant do enough damage to take her out even if she went 0/10 so far.a 15% heal per target is fucking absurd

JustMyBassCannonDec 20, 20154 votes

Her heal is 5% of missing health per tentacle that strikes a champion. Not 15%.

SiytherDec 21, 20151 votes

thats still to much. thanks for the corection though. anyone that can sustain through a 1 vs 5 has way too much much. it should at least be changed to a flat amount.

BastionKrossDec 21, 20151 votes

Agreed. Darius got his heal nerfed for the exact same reason.

JustMyBassCannonDec 21, 20151 votes

Darius went from 15% of missing HP, up to 30%, to 12% of missing HP, up to 36%. It's slightly weaker in solo situations and slightly stronger in team situations. Those number tweaks are very small, as they mean a difference of -3/-6/+6 HP per 100 HP with one/two/three targets struck. And, again, unlike Darius, Illaoi's heal is based on the number of tentacles that strike a champion, rather than the number of champions struck by a tentacle. So she needs at least 2, and both need to hit an enemy champion, in order to have similar effectiveness.

Mechanically different, thus different values.

BastionKrossDec 21, 20151 votes

The radius of the blade also got nerfed, and the "handle" part of his axe is bigger than before now. The reason for all those changes was to make sure Darius, a juggernaut like Illaoi, couldn't heal like a madman in the middle of the enemy team. Illaoi is doing exactly what Darius was nerfed for doing; just in a mechanically different way.

Juggernauts being tanky is fine, but healing themselves for large amounts while doing high damage with the same move? That's too much.

JustMyBassCannonDec 21, 20151 votes

...Darius still heals himself for rather large amounts. It is his only defensive mechanic, since they removed his AS slow.

Illaoi doesn't even have CC for defense, only that heal, her base stats and whatever items she has built.

And while her base stats are on the higher end of the spectrum, her innate defense isn't going to give her enough of an advantage to rely on it alone.

JustMyBassCannonDec 21, 20152 votes

Right, because it's not like Mundo, Swain or Alistar are built to sustain in the middle of a 1v5 when played right.

Hinagiku33Dec 21, 20152 votes

Well gee, by that logic Katarina can NEVER BE NERFED

Samus72Dec 20, 20151 votes

No one likes playing against her?

She's limited in her range. If she can't hit me, I'm not worried about her.

kaykalosDec 20, 20151 votes

the problem is that she is pseudo meele , imagine vayne with the same dam but with tankiness

RalanrDec 20, 20151 votes

Vayne can dodge.

Ch0c0lateJesusDec 20, 20151 votes

I think most people would like her hitboxes to be fixed, and her bullshit E to have some real counterplay besides "dodge it"

Her team can help kill the spirit, but your team cant help lift the curse. In fact they can make it worse by last hitting tentacles. Good one sided "minigame" there Rito.

CasterGilgameshDec 21, 20152 votes

but there is counter play to her E you can damage her to reduce its duration and you can just get out of range so she doesnt have time to damage it.the tentacles that pop up from you are slow enough to dodge so you dont have to worry much about that.

Ch0c0lateJesusDec 21, 20151 votes

You do understand that "getting out of range" automatically applies the curse to you right?

If she pulls the spirit into her team, it's a garunteed curse. Simple as that.

CasterGilgameshDec 21, 20151 votes

the curse isnt that bad the tentacles are very slow easy to dodge and kill plus its the only CC she has

GhastlyGhoulManDec 21, 20151 votes

Honestly I don't mind facing Illaoi, since I usually take Teemo against her. Great laning phase. :)

magic poleDec 21, 20151 votes

as long as tentacle assists lower my counter I'm good. that thing is annoying as it is, shouldn't also promote interteam toxicity when a teammate lengthens the time you are infected

CasterGilgameshDec 21, 20151 votes

she doesn't need nerfs people just need some time to get used to her people who complain about her now are the ones who don't want to adapt to her.

YCitizenSnipsYDec 21, 20151 votes

Same thing could be said about Le Blanc, doesn't mean people don't ask for her not to be able to deal damage. Some people just don't like a champion and don't want to see them good. Illaoi is one of those champions.

GlockHammerDec 21, 20151 votes

Also, her manacosts are nonexistent, tried getting manaregen masteries on her? You can litterally spamm abilities the first 10 minutes of the game without going oom, that's my major issue with her.

SpoofghoulDec 21, 20151 votes

Illaoi waveclear is too damn much

Sion got his Q waveclear cut for a reason. All you had to do is charge it for 2 seconds and decimate a minionwave. This makes it very hard for opponent to fight you because you have minion advantage pretty much all the time, now eventually you got oom and you just backed. But Illaoi does the same thing basically. But, way waaaay more powerfull. Not only does she just annihilate minionwaves, there isnt a charge up so you can stop her. To make it more annoying it doesnt even cost a drop of mana. And if you do decide well nope you not just going to oupush me like that you get smacked in the face for a crapton of damage and shes back to full hp. . .

Illaoi is already difficult to fight with her tankyness damage and sustain but she can also permanently have minion advantage??? Really fuck that.

I would say a good way to start tuning Illaoi is to reduce the damage to minions on her Q. Make it deal 50 or 60 % damage on minions.

RalanrDec 21, 20151 votes

She sounds a lot like Darius .

Phoenix Kotori Dec 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If she can't deal damage anymore what will she do???

Delete her she was a mistake.

It Is I EmotoDec 21, 20151 votes

well, its not her damage that bothers me, but her sustain. her tentacles heal about like 5% of her missing health if they hit a enemy champion. that's so much sustain, but juggernauts are well known for alot of sustain, aren't they? lol