Number of champions building Frozen Mallet:
Champions building Frozen Mallet: 
Champions building Rylais: 
Conclusion:
Better nerf Frozen Mallet
46 Comments
ProfDrDeath6 votesAP mid champions that have Rylai's in either their most common or highest winrate builds:
AP mid champions that have Rylai's in their first three purchased items:
AP mid champions that don't have it:
Non-mid APs to build Rylai's who were not named before:
AP non-mid champions not building Rylai's and not named before:
Since I just spend 20 min of my life compilating this list, might as well post it here again. 30 out of 132 champion, meaning 3/11's of the entire roster, and 30 out of 53 champions that commonly build AP.
GULAG 4 U1 votesEh Mordekaiser builds it too
ProfDrDeath1 votesSecond row of champions.
GULAG 4 U1 votesw00ps I'm blind, better wait for the annual lee song buffs, sorry man
Rain NT4 votesFrom your list kat doesnt always buy rylai, usually full ap, Annie doesnt build rylais too often, Cho doesnt need rylais in his kit and its better off getting a tank item, Ori has the highest win rate with Rylais but commonly doesnt build rylais, I also dont see Syndra building rylais often nor do they do in the pro scene, I never see veig build rylais like ever, Viktor sometimes deosnt build it, And Zac usually doesnt build rylais either unless hes really ahead.
To be fair, these are the games I've played in, but imo in that list, there are champions that does better just building straight up more AP. What I'm trying to say is that Rylais isnt part of their core item or benefit them really well compared to going more ap. I would say Leb would benefit better with rylais than the champions I listed above because she barely has any cc unless she double chains, and really squshy, rylais helps her set up her combo better.
But if Rylais is such a core item on a lot of Mages, why nerf it? Its like saying we need to nerf IE because its a super strong item on ADC.
HateDaddy2 votesFrom your list kat doesnt always buy rylai, usually full ap, Annie doesnt build rylais too often, Cho doesnt need rylais in his kit and its better off getting a tank item, Ori has the highest win rate with Rylais but commonly doesnt build rylais, I also dont see Syndra building rylais often nor do they do in the pro scene, I never see veig build rylais like ever, Viktor sometimes deosnt build it, And Zac usually doesnt build rylais either unless hes really ahead.
To be fair, these are the games I've played in, but imo in that list, there are champions that does better just building straight up more AP. What I'm trying to say is that Rylais isnt part of their core item or benefit them really well compared to going more ap. I would say Leb would benefit better with rylais than the champions I listed above because she barely has any cc unless she double chains, and really squshy, rylais helps her set up her combo better.
But if Rylais is such a core item on a lot of Mages, why nerf it? Its like saying we need to nerf IE because its a super strong item on ADC.
Then why nerf frozen mallet or demand nerfs for frozen mallet if only two, sometimes 3 champions abuse it?
And rylais is being commonly build on many champions it shouldn't typically be good on. You know what I almost never see anymore? 
. You'd think if people wanted more AP, you'd see this item more but you don't. It's because you can get items like 
really cheap and go into rylais and be relatively durable during the mid game because of the raw health it gives, while also giving you 100 AP.
This is a pretty good indication the item is being abused. I would much rather see it give less AP and less HP and have it cost cheaper. The champions who typically build rylais wouldn't miss the AP too much because they do a fuck ton of damage no matter what (think Brand, Malz, Rumble) and you could knock 50 HP off too so it's not so versatile.
Privileged Jew1 votesThen why nerf frozen mallet or demand nerfs for frozen mallet if only two, sometimes 3 champions abuse it?
And rylais is being commonly build on many champions it shouldn't typically be good on. You know what I almost never see anymore?
This is a pretty good indication the item is being abused. I would much rather see it give less AP and less HP and have it cost cheaper. The champions who typically build rylais wouldn't miss the AP too much because they do a fuck ton of damage no matter what (think Brand, Malz, Rumble) and you could knock 50 HP off too so it's not so versatile.
Not sure why you think changing the mallet is bad, or that Riot would just flat out nerf it. How is changing its stats so that it becomes viable for the large champion pool that doesn't use the mallet a bad thing? You're removing the problem posed when a set few champions supposedly "abuse" it, and you're making it a viable build on many more champions that don't.
By the way you don't seem to understand what "abuse" means. Kogmaw abused rageblade and his win rate spiked several months ago until both Kog and rageblade were changed so that the two were less effective.
Rain NT1 votesNo no dont get me wrong, I think nerfing Frozen mallet is a mistake. Barely anyone use it and is only strong on a couple champs and they nerf it.. unreasonable. Just because yasuo has a broken kit they decide to nerf it. GG rito
Meep Man1 votesWell, it's more of a stat redistribution correct? 650 Health -> 700 Health and 40 AD -> 30 AD?
Spoofghoul1 votesusually full ap includes a rylais
because it has 100!! AP
lets grab all the 100 ap and abvoe items shall we
mejajs is risky rylais is not 2 of the items also need to scale rylais does not if you want the easies full ap build rylais is included
Rain NT1 votesyeah but rylais is not the most optimal when it comes to damage, if I want more damage I rather get voidstaff or abysall or ludens over Ryalis. And like I said, some champions doesnt need rylais or its not a core build of theirs so they are better off get more penetration or an item that amps their spells.
Rock MD1 votesFrom your list kat doesnt always buy rylai, usually full ap, Annie doesnt build rylais too often, Cho doesnt need rylais in his kit and its better off getting a tank item, Ori has the highest win rate with Rylais but commonly doesnt build rylais, I also dont see Syndra building rylais often nor do they do in the pro scene, I never see veig build rylais like ever, Viktor sometimes deosnt build it, And Zac usually doesnt build rylais either unless hes really ahead.
To be fair, these are the games I've played in, but imo in that list, there are champions that does better just building straight up more AP. What I'm trying to say is that Rylais isnt part of their core item or benefit them really well compared to going more ap. I would say Leb would benefit better with rylais than the champions I listed above because she barely has any cc unless she double chains, and really squshy, rylais helps her set up her combo better.
But if Rylais is such a core item on a lot of Mages, why nerf it? Its like saying we need to nerf IE because its a super strong item on ADC.
What? I see Kat getting Rylai's all the freaking time.
And Annie's core build is defensive item (RoA/Abyssal) and/or Protobelt right into Rylai's.
Reikken3 votesyou list (who doesn't buy rylai's) but not ?
btw teemo gets mallet sometimes
YumaS2Astral2 votesyou list
Mordekaiser without Rylai essentially does not exist. Everyone and their mother will kite you and escape from you. At this point it would be better if Riot gave to Morde natural CC or mobility. Although even then, Rylai would probably still be a core item for him.
And yeah, Teemo usually go for Mallet if he is not building full AP. If you are not relying on his shrooms for damage, this item is better than Rylai, as it is more consistent (can be applied on every auto-attack, whereas with Rylai you rely on his Q and his shrooms to apply the slow)
A Basic Island2 votesAD champs have a plethora of defensive items to choose from, so mallet goes unoticed. If the HP options were more limited then mallet would be more popular.
Privileged Jew1 votes builds 
as well.
If that's one that you missed, I bet you missed a lot more that I can't be bothered to research.
It's a really strong item that needs to be looked at because of how easy it is for some champs to proc off of AAs as opposed to skillshots with the.
One can permaslow you, and the other slows you for a second or two if the champion lands a spell.
The fact that a lot of champions are building an item doesn't necessarily mean that the item is broken or being abused. Kogmaw builds a certain set of items not commonly seen on the majority of champions, such as a rageblade and this used to break him until recent nerfs.
HateDaddy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Triple K Maf1a,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lE4FY98i,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-26T06:03:44.550+0000)
If that's one that you missed, I bet you missed a lot more that I can't be bothered to research.
It's a really strong item that needs to be looked at because of how easy it is for some champs to proc off of AAs as opposed to skillshots with the
One can permaslow you, and the other slows you for a second or two if the champion lands a spell.
The fact that a lot of champions building an item doesn't necessarily mean that the item is broken or being abused. Kogmaw builds a certain set of items not commonly seen on the majority of champions, such as a rageblade and this used to break him until recent nerfs.
The fact many of these champions already have slows/hard cc in their kits and continue to build it is a clear indication of abuse. Frozen mallet gets consistently abused by two champions and one of those cases of abuse is simply there to be filler (yasuo). And Gnar has always abused FM because of his natural synergy with the item, making his Q easier to land and adding to his kiting.
Privileged Jew2 votesThe fact many of these champions already have slows/hard cc in their kits and continue to build it is a clear indication of abuse. Frozen mallet gets consistently abused by two champions and one of those cases of abuse is simply there to be filler (yasuo). And Gnar has always abused FM because of his natural synergy with the item, making his Q easier to land and adding to his kiting.
Abuse or usage? Is being slowed for ONE SECOND after being hit with what is more often than not a skillshot that's difficult to land really "abuse" when compared to the free permaslow that autoattacking champions can apply? Please provide evidence that these champions are somehow now broken because they use Rylai's. Oh wait - you have none.
WoonStruck1 votesSkillshots aren't hard to land mid-fight.
Poke (max distance skillshots before a fight) can be difficult to land. Not the same thing.
Privileged Jew1 votesSkillshots aren't hard to land mid-fight.
Poke (max distance skillshots before a fight) can be difficult to land. Not the same thing.
And neither are autoattacks from tanky champions with gap closers. The difference is that skillshots, as said before slow you for ONE second if it's AOE and 1.5 seconds if it's single target. Hardly a problem if they have any gap closers, dashes, leaps, etc. Whereas with autoattacks, assuming the mallet user can match your escapes, he can stick to you and keep you permaslowed while he continues to wail on you until you're either killed by him or by his team in close pursuit.
Plus, if you're hit with a skillshot during a teamfight, assuming you're not a tank, chances are you're getting slammed with the whole rotation and are probably going to die anyways. Furthermore as the OP said, most of these champs have CC built into their kit and being hit with Rylais is just overkill in the CC department.
Still waiting for the evidence that this item breaks the champions he listed. If they don't, then why are we complaining about its usage? Do you want more item diversity, is that it? Because something else will take Rylai's place if Riot removes it and these champions that already weren't broken when using Rylai's will be just as powerful assuming the balance team does their job.
HateDaddy2 votes[{quoted}](name=Triple K Maf1a,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lE4FY98i,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-26T06:39:25.414+0000)
And neither are autoattacks from tanky champions with gap closers. The difference is that skillshots, as said before slow you for ONE second if it's AOE and 1.5 seconds if it's single target. Hardly a problem if they have any gap closers, dashes, leaps, etc. Whereas with autoattacks, assuming the mallet user can match your escapes, he can stick to you and keep you permaslowed while he continues to wail on you until you're either killed by him or by his team in close pursuit.
It's because auto attacks do less damage than AP champions will, so FM gives you the chance to slow to continue auto attacking whole rylais gives you one slow to burst a target. they both accomplish the same things for their designated class and I think both are pretty bad design.
Plus, if you're hit with a skillshot during a teamfight, assuming you're not a tank, chances are you're getting slammed with the whole rotation and are probably going to die anyways. Furthermore as the OP said, most of these champs have CC built into their kit and being hit with Rylais is just overkill in the CC department.
So why is rylais still being commonly built when it's passive isn't needed? That's the point, this is what's known as a case of abuse. It shouldn't be built by many of these champions yet it is because it gives 100 AP and 400 HP. It's too good, it's so good champions don't even give a damn about the passive.
Still waiting for the evidence that this item breaks the champions he listed. If they don't, then why are we complaining about its usage? Do you want more item diversity, is that it? Because something else will take Rylai's place if Riot removes it and these champions that already weren't broken when using Rylai's will be just as powerful assuming the balance team does their job.
Can you read? I never said the champions were broken or being broken by rylais. And that's a hilariously stupid excuse not to need a clearly busted item. "They'll just buy something else!" No shit lmao, that's the idea.
Maximum Morde1 votesIt's because auto attacks do less damage than AP champions will.
Only on the champions who are currently building it.
WoonStruck1 votesExcept those champions that are auto attacking are likely melee and risking everything to stick to you.
Ranged is insanely strong in this game. I don't know how you haven't considered that.
HateDaddy2 votes[{quoted}](name=Triple K Maf1a,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lE4FY98i,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-26T06:22:41.216+0000)
Abuse or usage? Is being slowed for ONE SECOND after being hit with what is more often than not a skillshot that's difficult to land really "abuse" when compared to the free permaslow that autoattacking champions can apply? Please provide evidence that these champions are somehow now broken because they use Rylai's. Oh wait - you have none.
I'm not saying the champions are broken and I've provided plenty of evidence that rylais is being heavily abused right now. Case in point:
These champions have heavy slows or hard CC, they're not even building rylais because of its slow. They're building it because it gives 100 AP while also giving 400hp. And in that same light, they get to perma slow you nevertheless because cooldown reduction exists and many of these champions have relatively spammable spells, especially with cooldown reduction.
I have plenty of evidence, for some reason you elect to ignore it.
Reikken1 votesnah, they use it for the slow. or at least ahri, annie, and kayle do. I don't play the others. Rylai's makes charm easier to land, lets annie kite melees and chase, and makes kayle's autos slow. And makes tibbers impossible to outrun without a dash or something.
If I didn't care about the slow, I'd just get a(nother) RoA. It's cheaper and actually gives more health and the same 100 AP.
HateDaddy1 votesnah, they use it for the slow. or at least ahri, annie, and kayle do. I don't play the others. Rylai's makes charm easier to land, lets annie kite melees and chase, and makes kayle's autos slow. And makes tibbers impossible to outrun without a dash or something.
If I didn't care about the slow, I'd just get a(nother) RoA. It's cheaper and actually gives more health and the same 100 AP.
Let me ask you this: what if gave 80 AP instead of 100, would you still buy it?
Also, kayles Q is basically a perma slow, and the way slows work with each other, it's pretty bad to build it on Kayle from that stand point.
Reikken1 votesIf it also were a bit cheaper for that reduced AP, then yes, certainly. Otherwise... only sometimes. Only when I really need the slow (ex: against volibear, garen, singed, etc)
And Reckoning is only single target and only lasts for like 2s against someone with mercs. But with rylai's you can have an actual permaslow, and in AoE
VoidStaresBack1 votesDepends of the situation, just like how I do it now with Kayle. Rylai's is one of about five items I finish my Kayle build with and all of them are situational: Rylai's is my choice if the enemy team likes kiting/running away and I need to stick on them long enough for my autos to kill them, that AOE slow is superb.
Privileged Jew1 votesI'm not saying the champions are broken and I've provided plenty of evidence that rylais is being heavily abused right now. Case in point:
These champions have heavy slows or hard CC, they're not even building rylais because of its slow. They're building it because it gives 100 AP while also giving 400hp. And in that same light, they get to perma slow you nevertheless because cooldown reduction exists and many of these champions have relatively spammable spells, especially with cooldown reduction.
I have plenty of evidence, for some reason you elect to ignore it.
How are you defining "abuse"? If they're winning at the same rate as any other champion then I don't see how it's abuse to simply use an item that's effective. You sound like someone who lost a match to a Rylai's user and is now crying "nerf" on the forums without actually thinking your post through.
By the way if these champions are actually able to get off multiple spell rotations on you then either you suck, or they're focusing the wrong champion(the tank). Assuming they have good CDR AND a Rylai's then this is late/late mid and they're probably using it on you in a teamfight.
HateDaddy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Triple K Maf1a,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lE4FY98i,comment-id=00000000000000010001,timestamp=2016-08-26T06:45:46.796+0000)
How are you defining "abuse"? If they're winning at the same rate as any other champion then I don't see how it's abuse to simply use an item that's effective. You sound like someone who lost a match to a Rylai's user and is now crying "nerf" on the forums without actually thinking your post through.
By the way if these champions are actually able to get off multiple spell rotations on you then either you suck, or they're focusing the wrong champion(the tank). Assuming they have good CDR AND a Rylai's then this is late/late mid and they're probably using it on you in a teamfight.
It has nothing to do with winning/losing, it's abuse because the item is being bought by champions who don't really use the passive that well at all.
Skias1 votesI'm not saying the champions are broken and I've provided plenty of evidence that rylais is being heavily abused right now. Case in point:
These champions have heavy slows or hard CC, they're not even building rylais because of its slow. They're building it because it gives 100 AP while also giving 400hp. And in that same light, they get to perma slow you nevertheless because cooldown reduction exists and many of these champions have relatively spammable spells, especially with cooldown reduction.
I have plenty of evidence, for some reason you elect to ignore it.
Kayle with 40% CDR has 100% uptime on rylais.
Ereldra1 votesOn Ahri you defintely build it for the slow. 45% CDR, Charm, combined with the MS of your Q and your Ult - good luck to anyone ever catching you. Makes you one of the best kite mages in the game and almost impossible to reach. I don't think it's absolutely core on her though; it's not the best damagewise, even with 100 AP. It's good for some utility if you are behind already and just want to add something useful in fights or if you are playing against some bruiser like Darius Top oder Voli Jungle where you need to kite them. But otherwise going Ludens second (if you don't need Abyssal) or bulding Deathcap gives just more damage.
VoidStaresBack1 votesThe only one who's kind of strange on this list is Annie, who generally unloads her whole combo onto a team at once anyway, although it does have good synergy with her bear allowing it to chase down targets more easily. Kayle uses it because it gives her an AOE slow that doesn't require her to disrupt her autoattack rythm to use and the others rely heavily on skillshots and/or have a delayed-hit ability that can be more easily set up with a slow on a previous ability or the initial cast.
Don't get me wrong, Rylai's is weirdly strong right now as far as gold efficiency goes without even taking the passive into account, but those aren't really "abuse cases".
TTK Dreadnought1 votes
Have built frozen mallet before. 
can or have built it.
We should be happy its not being built on ADCs (other than the occasional Kogmaw). 30% perma slow for some ADCs sounds interesting. plus its still bonus health/AD. but its a trade-off i guess.
adidas1 votesChampions building Frozen Mallet:
Champions building Rylais:
Conclusion:
Better nerf Frozen Mallet
lol dude. if someone actually disagrees with you then they have to be pretty fucked up in the head because you speak the truth. Rylais is abused by almot every AP champ while FM is used by 3 champs max but they nerf i mean buff frozen mallet
ActivatingEMP1 votesWtf, why would Vel koz build rylais? He gains almost nothing from it
Revali1 votesputting a slow on his w is actually quite nice, makes his kiting better than it already is
And A Real Hiero1 votesHis passive triggers the single target slow. Its quite good on him.
Revali1 votesI'd disagree with your frozen mallet list.
HateDaddy1 votesI'd disagree with your frozen mallet list.
I literally never see any of these champions build it lmao
Meep Man1 votesKled does build it, or at least Kleds with the highest win rate build it.
As for the others, Jax actually does benefit from building it a ton and so does Rek'sai and Udyr. The rest are... eh...
Critmaster Garen1 votesits not just a matter of how many champions are building . its also that the slow mechanic is either
- a bandaid for a lot of champions not being effective enough with the own tools in their kits to be useful
- "i cant hit my skillshots, so i need aimbot and slow my opponent with passive aoe abilities and minions"
- compeltely abusive towards low mobility champions who get shut down by permaslows from range
DemoGuide1 votesDo you really have so much problems with rylai?
I agree that it's broken on some champions: . I can also review them on case-by-case basis.
- completely depends on Rylai. Rylai just effectively adds one additional auto before you can leave radius of his soldiers, and for some squishies it is too much. I believe his soldiers shouldn't interact with Rylai, at least not a 40% slow, and his kit should be adjusted with that in mind.
His cooldowns were lowered across the board, and now he can easily create a permaslow situation. But removing Rylai may hurt him hard enough to give hime some lesser buffs like movement speed. q missle speed, or manacosts reduced. ( i may be biased here, because i was pre-rework brand main, disliked changes and only played like 4 games. But i faced brands, and i tried to run from brand as a support. Fuck this permaslow.)
At first, she got totally cancer kit in mage rework. Plants now attack too fast, have more HP, and there is not enough champions that can deal with it effectively, especialy on the bot lane. Rylai is not the core problem, but her kit is, and removing Rylai won't change that much. Maube just a small nerf for a late game, but most of her problems are coming from her early.
He got a toxic kit, but in this case, rylai actually enhances his problems. So, problem in his kit - it's totally not interactive in lane. E+W combo is strong enough to farm whole lane without recalling, while enemy laner is trying to keep up in mana and pushing power. And once he bought Rylai you only catch his E, and he extends it with his Q just for free. Not mentioning the voidlings eating you up alive. Removing rylai won't solve his laning problem, but will definitely reduce his teamfighting power to a proper level.
Well, that's my big 4. But if you believe rylai is in really unhealthy state on other champions, i will try my best to prove my point it's not.
P.S. After writing this rant, i reread the OP, and found that it maybe wasn't the core message of this thread. And yes, i find current PBE nerfs on Frozen Mallet bullshit too.
Meep Man1 votes and don't build Rylai's.
Papa Slothy1 votesgraves, jax, sion, shen (idk if popular, but I like it) they all generally build frozen mallet
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