An interesting idea to reduce the effectiveness of ADCs without a single direct change to them

HateDaddy··5 votes·320 views

AD carries are the best scaling class in the game. They are basically strong at all phases of the game and offer the best and most consistent form of sustained damage. I'm okay with that. I'm not even bothered about them basically bursting squishies late game. I don't really mind the lifesteal they end up having with warlords/LS items because there are ways to counter that. What I do mind is how support itemization is made, by default, to protect ADCs and any usage of it that isn't directed to the ADC is a gross misusage of support itemization.

One of the things that make ADCs so difficult to deal with right now is that a support can dedicate their entire arsenal to making sure their ADC stays alive. Honest to god, you could play Shyvanna as support and build support items and keep ADCs alive, it really is that good. I don't mind it being that good, it's actual interactive itemization that give support players a sense of impact that they've never truly had in the past with bland aura items and being ward bots, I advocate no nerfs to this - but I do advocate some change.

The change I propose isn't necessarily a nerf, but it does technically reduce the strength of the itemization. And typically, I'm not a huge fan of this style of itemization balancing but I'm willing to make an exception for this proposal because i think it can truly be a difference maker. Without further adieu:

My proposal is simple: make all support itemization in forms of healing, shields and auras 50% less effective on ranged champions. Being ranged is an enormous defensive steroid in itself and it allows for an unequal advantage to ranged champions that almost never truly gets surrendered because the burden is always on the shorter ranged champions to close the gap on the longer ranged champions.

There's no incentive to use this itemization on melee champions because it would be an inferior investment. With this change, it opens up the likability to actually link oneself to a melee champion and giving them the capacity to be a true potential carry. This doesn't make supports slaves to the ADC and it allows avenues of strength to other classes and thus reduced effectiveness of the ADC. Even though the itemization still likely gets used on ADC, you suddenly develop a situation where the 90/10 to the ADC and take it maybe to 60/40 and that's a massive difference.

Next season will be an enormous change to the game on a level we've never truly seen. I dare say this would be a more significant change than keystones and I think this is the perfect opportunity to make these sort of changes because nerfing ADCs across the board has proven to be just as problematic in the past as leaving them overpowered as shit. And because next season is changing so drastically, I'm not even sure an answer cross the board change like this should be made.

That's all I've got. It's my hope that melee champions - not tanks but fighters - can actually make significant contributions to teamfights other than being meatshields. Some can but their names start with "Fiora" and end with "isn't balanced." And that's no reason to allow melee champions to feel less effective. And with this change, I think it could close that gap in a healthy manner while toning down ADCs.

17 Comments

AFilthyCaitMain4 votes

Separating Ranged and Melee for nerfs really needs to stop being a suggestion. Riot isnt going to do it. It forces metas.

Big Lincoln3 votes

It forces metas.

since when

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

Separating Ranged and Melee for nerfs really needs to stop being a suggestion. Riot isnt going to do it. It forces metas.

You speak as if metas aren't forced already

Rexxiee2 votes

Why not just nerf the broken support items instead? Its a simple solution, you know when something is too strong you just nerf it down, this happens with every role itemization, so i dont see why support items should be immune from balance.

You talk like a yi/tryndamere/riven/yasuo cant wipe out your team just like ranged adc can with a lulu/kayle/or something else.

Like yi is the most glaring example of a melee hypercarry that can wipe whole teams out if he reaches late game and has proper setup, chinese boosters were even running kayle top + yi jungle and the kayle would just buy the support items and use everything on yi.

Basically if you make the items shit to be used on adcs they're just going to be used on the next carries on the line, nothing changes, you still have games being decided by which team has more lockets/ardents/redemptions/knights vow/etc.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Why not just nerf the broken support items instead? Its a simple solution, you know when something is too strong you just nerf it down, this happens with every role itemization, so i dont see why support items should be immune from balance.

You talk like a yi/tryndamere/riven/yasuo cant wipe out your team just like ranged adc can with a lulu/kayle/or something else.

Like yi is the most glaring example of a melee hypercarry that can wipe whole teams out if he reaches late game and has proper setup, chinese boosters were even running kayle top + yi jungle and the kayle would just buy the support items and use everything on yi.

Basically if you make the items shit to be used on adcs they're just going to be used on the next carries on the line, nothing changes, you still have games being decided by which team has more lockets/ardents/redemptions/knights vow/etc.

In order for those melee champions to do that, they have to get ridiculously far ahead or the enemy team severely misplays. ADCs likely need adjustments too but I actually don't like the idea of nerfing everything down, I prefer to let everything be busted and balance around that.

BakedLotion2 votes

or u can just nerf adcs

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

or u can just nerf adcs

That's the less creative solution, sure

BakedLotion1 votes

{quoted}

That's the less creative solution, sure

its also the easier and more effective solution you fix what's broken, not everything else

Have you never seen Riot nerf champions before? They nerf what isn't overpowered, leave the problematic skill alone, then throw them in the gutter for 5 years

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

its also the easier and more effective solution you fix what's broken, not everything else

Except nerfing ADCs has never really fixed anything, it just opens up other nerf cycles that eventually make everything else weaker.

RainXBlade1 votes

Heals and shields are 50% less effective on ranged champions

You do realize that this can also affect most of the mages. Then again, mages are a bit irrelevant to this kind of thread. Also, does this mean that IF a certain mechanic change like this gets applied, can you can now make Yasuo ADC viable because regular, ranged ADC's don't get a shield or heal from their support as big as it used to?

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

You do realize that this can also affect most of the mages. Then again, mages are a bit irrelevant to this kind of thread. Also, does this mean that IF a certain mechanic change like this gets applied, can you can now make Yasuo ADC viable because regular, ranged ADC's don't get a shield or heal from their support as big as it used to?

Mages are self sufficient and typically don't require the usage of these items since they can play further back and sift in and out of fights because of cooldowns.

RainXBlade1 votes

I.... didn't actually consider that. Sorry if I didn't know that. I don't play mages a lot often to know that at the back of my head.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

I.... didn't actually consider that. Sorry if I didn't know that. I don't play mages a lot often to know that at the back of my head.

You don't have to apologize lol

RainXBlade1 votes

It's a habit I have that I'm trying to manage.

Big Lincoln1 votes

i think support items should just be nerfed, flat-out. item actives should not be a more important part of your gameplay than your own kit

in return make some more items that happen to benefit melee champs a little more so that there's some incentive to throw them on your mADC or juggernaut.

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l75Ni2kX,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-07-06T03:48:15.579+0000)

i think support items should just be nerfed, flat-out. item actives should not be a more important part of your gameplay than your own kit

in return make some more items that happen to benefit melee champs a little more so that there's some incentive to throw them on your mADC or juggernaut.

I don't think support itemization is better than actual kits. Several items have been nerfed. It's entirely possible that they feel overbearing on ranged ADCs and are fine on everything else.

Big Lincoln1 votes

i dunno i've had more than a few games where i fuck up stuns on taric and still peel successfully just by smashing locket and FOTM if i have it

item 3109 item 3107 make this a lot stronger, too

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