Azir, Ryze, Kalista being nerfed for having 100% pick/ban in pro play

Ahristocats·Jan 31, 2018·47 votes·3,310 views

gets a free pass tho cuz him negating all melees+all non instant spells is balanced, and healthy

81 Comments

MrHaZeYoJan 31, 201837 votes

Lets be real, that Ryze Zhonyas ult combo needed to go.

YuGiHoJan 31, 20189 votes

i dont play ryze but i thought it was cool. its like the only thing i see a ryze do in my games and thats only half the ryze i see. i guess i just want it to stay because ryze does not have much going fr him in low elo games.

MrHaZeYoFeb 1, 201815 votes

It is cool, but it's annoying as hell, you can't kill him because of it.

Alex h8721Feb 1, 20182 votes

stopwatch is 1 time use, zhonyas has a 3min cd iirc, so you definitely can kill him

MrHaZeYoFeb 1, 201811 votes

Ryze takes Unsealed Spellbook so he takes Perfect timing and Cosmic Insight giving him 20% CDR on Zhonyas wish cuts 24 seconds off of it. Which means Zhonyas has a 96 second CD which isn't bad considering he won't be fighting every minute and a half.

So yes, it's hard to kill Ryze unless you play around that 95 seconds, usually though after he uses it he backs and resets which wastes roughly 30-45 seconds putting him down to 51 seconds. So you basically have a 1 minute window to kill him. We then need to take into account he builds serephs and either RoA or Abyssal (Sometimes both and maybe even Frozen Heart) so he's fairly durable.

Edit: He also has 30% CDR on his sums, 40 if he takes CDR boots. (210 Second CD with 30% Sum Spell CDR and 180 CDR with 40% on his Flash, then whatever his other spell is, that's a 3 min flash.

TPMJ MFeb 1, 20181 votes

"Its annoying cause u cant kill him" LOL

So, according to you, lets just delete every ability that does that! Bard R Zed R Aatrox P Evelynn R Ekko R.............

MrHaZeYoFeb 1, 20185 votes

Pretty sure it's according to a lot of people, including Riot seeing how they're removing it.

Those champions are tuned around those abilities, I doubt Ryze was.

TPMJ MFeb 1, 20181 votes

silver 2 guy knows better.

There are 1000s (LITERALLY) of abilities and gameplay issues much much much more annoyin than this one. Its just pathetic people moan about it.

An Enemy SutandoFeb 1, 20187 votes

Rankshaming when you're losing the argument when you're unranked yourself.

TPMJ MFeb 1, 20181 votes

Lossing the argument? Check ur reading comprehension.

Attticus FinchFeb 1, 20187 votes

Posts of this quality are proof that there should be an IQ minimum requirement to post on the boards.

CrystalyskFeb 1, 20181 votes

Thanks for this, made my day

SaiannaFeb 1, 20182 votes

I remember that whenever I had an upper hand vs Lee, he'd just kick me away and then walk to safety. Guess what: Nothing had happend to him for like 4 years lol

JohnnyNeverSinsFeb 1, 20181 votes

Can i get a link or smth for the ryze nerfs?

Akali is SO HOTJan 31, 201824 votes

Gut Gnar

YokoNomiJan 31, 201822 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l3114pMx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-31T22:07:50.839+0000)

Gut Gnar

But like, do it when he's Mega Gnar, so you can get the most out of it. Imagine how long you'd be fed with all of that lean meat. Also I'd imagine you'd be able to make a decent amount of articles of clothing.

AirKingNeoJan 31, 20182 votes

gut akali top and make her a good mid laner.

Move her R to her E and make it reset on procing Q. Give her a new W and E and passive.

AbibyamaJan 31, 201815 votes

Sounds something that CertainlyT would do

MarshbouyJan 31, 201820 votes

Tahm Kench hate?

I can get behind this.

AhristocatsJan 31, 20186 votes

look at his presence in pro

and yes, i don't like my games to be ruined too

kaironenJan 31, 201813 votes

Tahm's entire protect the adc design is the issue. You can nerf him, but everyone will still hate him. I feel like he needs a rework later but the issue is he is designed around his w which is the most toxic and frustrating ability in his kit.

RexxieeJan 31, 201810 votes

{quoted}

Tahm's entire protect the adc design is the issue. You can nerf him, but everyone will still hate him. I feel like he needs a rework later but the issue is he is designed around his w which is the most toxic and frustrating ability in his kit.

Tahm design is literally being anti-interaction.

kaironenJan 31, 20183 votes

Basically that's what his design is which is a little sad looking at how he looks and his lore (I don't look at his lore at all but he is supposed to be this river king guy). Everytime I play vs tahm I have to play a completely different play style. My play style is to go in and half hp or more someone as poppy jg (trin or titanic op). When I play vs tahm, I have to go on like every pick I can no matter if good or bad. If I just go for adc or mage he will eat them and the engage is done with them sometimes killing me. I have to play protect the carries more often than not to win vs him which is just stupid. The thing that janna and lulu have as counterplay that tahm removes is the ability to do damage to the adc (except dots on adc I guess). You can click or throw skill shots or w/e to do damage to the carry. I feel like if riot wants to be able to make tahm healthy and keep this protect the adc with swallowing him identity they need to change something about his w. I honestly do not have a good idea into how but it needs some sort of delay or charge to it. Keeping his w exactly the same with no real delays to it except being near him will always make people hate him. I think the charge thing should be similar to how it works on his auto attacks for the q stun and w charge except with his w on allies (tbh idk how riot would be able to make this even work but it's just an idea).

Sorry for the rant but this guy is the most frustrating support to play against imo except when you are the adc (even then it can be really annoying).

DragonSheaFeb 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Tahm design is literally being anti-interaction.

Tahm should have a "tether" effect on allies he spits out so that they don't die right off the bat if he fucks up while also being able to exit at will. that way if you have a troll kench. You get out free and all damage you take is sent to him, annoying but at least the ADC wound't die the moment he leaves them to die.

The Great DivideFeb 3, 20181 votes

Don't forget that on top of that fun interactive gameplay, he gets to do tons of damage because it scales off of his health... A+ design

THE RlVER KlNGFeb 1, 20188 votes

alistar where?

great hyperbole though, your argument is really excellent and well supported

Diamond2KappaFeb 1, 20182 votes

TahmKench > Alistar tho hehe

Milton FletcherJan 31, 20187 votes

Gnar - yikers .

2 champs that do insane damage while having tank items not getting nerfed !! yikers riot games thats a weird coincidence!

CrystalyskJan 31, 201816 votes

In high elo you don't pick Tahm Kench for damage, you only need him to devour anyone who gets caught. Damage is the last of his problems.

DuskDaUmbreonJan 31, 20187 votes

But in low ELO, his damage is fucking insane.

He does fucktons of damage, and if you get hit by a Q and don't have someone to physically peel him off of you, you're down summs or you're facing a gray screen. Because Q slows, and it's pathetically easy for him to get in range for autos then. Auto, Auto, Q is stunned. And you're dead with that Q stun.

It's like being hit by a Zoe E when she's level 9. Except TK gets to build full tank and do the same fucking damage. And he can do it to all squishies. At all stages of the game.

He has the annoyingness of Teemo, the durability of Malphite, Kled's second health bar, the damage of a 6 item Xerath, cockblocks harder than a Lulu and Janna combined...

Automated RivenFeb 1, 20186 votes

{quoted}

But in low ELO, his damage is fucking insane.

He does fucktons of damage, and if you get hit by a Q and don't have someone to physically peel him off of you, you're down summs or you're facing a gray screen. Because Q slows, and it's pathetically easy for him to get in range for autos then. Auto, Auto, Q is stunned. And you're dead with that Q stun.

It's like being hit by a Zoe E when she's level 9. Except TK gets to build full tank and do the same fucking damage. And he can do it to all squishies. At all stages of the game.

He has the annoyingness of Teemo, the durability of Malphite, Kled's second health bar, the damage of a 6 item Xerath, cockblocks harder than a Lulu and Janna combined...

lul? what? I play in low elo is this is just not true. I havent seen tahm kench kill solo kill someone since his damage was actually broken before the nerfs.

THE RlVER KlNGFeb 1, 20182 votes

he does passable damage when built as a tanky bruiser top lane

he lacks the target selection of a diver and the in-combat sustain of a juggernaut. he makes up for it in utility. his early trading is very good but he lacks ways to interact with his opponent in a wave.

its nothing like zoe e because you have to get in melee range of someone and build stacks before you can even get the 1.5 sec stun

Automated RivenFeb 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

In high elo you don't pick Tahm Kench for damage, you only need him to devour anyone who gets caught. Damage is the last of his problems.

lets be fair. If you removed tahm kenches q and r he would still be a niche pick in pro play. That ability is completely bonkers.

ShaolinToiletFeb 1, 20181 votes

Rank one in Korea does lots of damage on tahm

BârdFeb 1, 20186 votes

Love Kench when he's played aggressively.

When he's used as a walking hourglass, that just feels sad.

RainbowIceeFeb 1, 20181 votes

trust me, it feels just as sad to play him that way. You just wait around for when needed and gulp. I really don't like this peel / shield/ heal meta. Supporting it's my fav role but last season and this one has made it quite boring and dull. It used to be that supports set up fights and the counter engage or some strategic part of it. But nah, now it's just sit back and peel. Spam active items. All the enchanting supports feel like a modern soraka now [sg-soraka]

Jinzo TorranceJan 31, 20184 votes

I mean, what do you even nerf about him? He's just picked because, like Braum, he can defend his ADC and in competitive they want to play it safe.

AhristocatsFeb 1, 20183 votes

devour cooldown nerfed hard

should be as high as vladimir's W

SpecterVonBarenFeb 1, 20182 votes

So you want him gutted?

AhristocatsFeb 1, 20182 votes

Not really Just like kalista having 500 range, it guts her but riot said it leaves more room to balance and compensation buffs

if tahm kench's devour cd is like right now there is no way the champion is balanced with weaknesses

SpecterVonBarenFeb 1, 20183 votes

If power was put into something else in his kit in compensation then I'd be fine with that. Perhaps make his E give a shield of 10% of its value to the nearest ally or something like that. If power is to be taken from his main support ability then I'd want him to gain some additional utility to make up for it.

SkorchFeb 1, 20184 votes

I think tahm fucks over more than melees.

vgamedudeFeb 1, 20183 votes

Ryze is statistically hot garbage in solo queue I'm really tired of them nerfing and further ruining him just because of pro play.

Other "high skill' champs like riven for instance have a ridiculously high winrate compared to ryze. Hell every champion has a ridiculously high winrate compared to ryze.

Sp33d Zer0Feb 1, 20181 votes

But notice that Riven sees very little play with her "rediculously high winrate".

The problem with Ryze is his identity is one that is going to be laughable. Either laughably op, or laughably garbage.

vgamedudeFeb 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l3114pMx,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-02-01T06:00:12.652+0000)

But notice that Riven sees very little play with her "rediculously high winrate".

The problem with Ryze is his identity is one that is going to be laughable. Either laughably op, or laughably garbage.

Very little pro play you mean, and her ridiculously high win rate is only in comparison to Ryze.

Sp33d Zer0Feb 1, 20182 votes

Even when she is around 50% win rate solo queue she continues to see very fringe play at best in pro.

vgamedudeFeb 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l3114pMx,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-01T07:14:42.310+0000)

Even when she is around 50% win rate solo queue she continues to see very fringe play at best in pro.

I know, I wasn't saying anything to disagree or contradict that.

Sp33d Zer0Feb 1, 20181 votes

Sounded like you were trying to say that Riven is better in pro play or something. My mistake

koshkyraFeb 1, 20183 votes

Anivia also goes untouched for years because she doesnt see any pro play

Im genuinely expecting riot to buff her just so she can see pro play

The Great DivideFeb 3, 20181 votes

Okay take this with a grain of salt (cause I'm an Anivia main).

But the reason Anivia usually sits around a 53% winrate for so long without much attention is because of a few reasons.

Her player base is relatively small, so this will always increase a champion's winrate.
She is very good in solo queue, simply because she can stall games, make pics, zone control, and has that egg for security. In more coordinated play, her short range and lack of options when Q and R are down are taken advantage of more (by coordinated engages).
Most control mages tend to have higher solo queue winrates because bringing CC is key.

She already got her big E nerf where you can no longer proc it by looking at someone (which actually made me a more aware Anivia player, as I find my ult placement much more calculated since I'm no longer using it to instant E>R), so I think she's in a pretty fine state. Runes seemed to help her a bit, but not extensively.