Jesus if you dont get ahead you are so freaking useless,no damage,his W is too freaking hard to hit unless the enemy is stuned by a morgana Q or something and his ult feel so freaking weak,the time it gets to fully charge is too long! Overall i like his kit but his damage and tankiness not so much.
ModCaliCoastReplay8 votesOld Swain was undeniably better. New one's running 47% winrate this week. Not the best.
New one though I really feel like might only need a small buff to be good. That is to reduce the delay time on his W animation by 1/4-1/2 a second and remove the minion damage penalty.
As I learn his kit better, his E, Q, and R don't feel incredibly out of whack. He's techy, and this new version of Swain is much more like Graves, burst damage instead of the long sustain lane - you have to burst hard when you burst, and then accept that you won't burst hard again for a minute and a half when ult is up. But the damage is real and he can get kills if he bursts hard.
W does not feel good. And I despair about his new waveclear. It doesn't feel good to take more than five seconds to clear out a large wave at level 15 with 500 ap, and a lot of that is because his W was deliberately made kitten-weak against waves. It's okay for vision, but you check one bush and then it's on cooldown for ten seconds? As a laning/damage ability it is almost useless - bad for waveclear, trivial to dodge by champions due to the long animation delay, even more so at higher levels - which I feel will really reduce the chance that he sees professional play.
Therefore I feel like he'd be oodles of fun if W got an animation speed buff and the minion damage penalty removed. Riot clearly didn't want it used for that purpose, but I really feel like these changes may need to happen to give him a kit that feels full and real and brings him back to 50%.
Z3Sleeper13 votesIt'll jump up to 50% in a week when people stop "trying him" in ranked and when one-tricks appear. And once Riot mistakenly buffs him he'll jump to 55%.
Calling it now. It happens everytime.
TeCoolMage4 votesYeah let him have his chance, he looks like a very difficult champion to play
Kylän seppä1 votesI truly don't believe he will have one tricks if he stays like he is now. One tricks usually take champion either if they are good at one aspect on the game player likes or fit their playstyle. I don't think this Swain does anything unique, and since it shares so many similarities with other champions you might as well main something else. This is coming from a guy who mained old Swain hard because I loved his presence with crowd control, being able to kill adc with dots so fck those 2k crits and his mind games and pressure of a ult. I can't do any of those things now, and I get it, its new champion so ofc i can't but name one thing he does which no other champion can do better and which would feel rewarding...
Z3Sleeper1 votesThere's also liking the champion's concept itself. I like the concept of minion-mancing. So I main Yorick.
I honestly feel like Yorick is a budget Nasus. But I just like Yorick so I play Yorick and find ways to make him work.
And I feel like alot of people like Swain's concept.
ModCaliCoastReplay1 votesIt'll jump up to 50% in a week when people stop "trying him" in ranked and when one-tricks appear. And once Riot mistakenly buffs him he'll jump to 55%.
Calling it now. It happens everytime.
You could be right, I just had my first S- game on him. He's much more of an AP hog now, IMO. I'm tending to rush Rabadon's a lot earlier.
I do stand by my position on his W. It's not fun. I was the most excited to try the W out of all of his skills, and am the most disappointed in the actual version. It's next to useless in lane - you can use it for zoning, but almost never for damage or waveclear. Maybe that was by design, and yeah, it's fun to have the ability to try to steal dragon/Baron or to "gank" from an extreme distance and getting a check on a bush every 10-15 seconds is useful, but it just doesn't feel like it makes up for having to play his lane phase with only two useful abilities. I have to believe that this is an even worse problem at high ELO, where all players innately have high enough reaction times to just dodge it no matter how unexpected it is - though maybe the potential for objective steals makes up for it, as those are more important there, it would be nice to have some high ELO players weigh in.
If it got an animation speedup even just at higher ranks only, plus a reduction in the minion damage nerf, that might be enough to fix him.
JohnnyNeverSins2 votesIll agree with the people thay replied to your comment,i think we just have to give him some time for his winrate,although i still believe that he is in need of a buff or two.
Baron Barian4 votesReally sure you're just bad. Especially since his W isn't used for the damage.
JohnnyNeverSins5 votesPretty sure <Removed by Moderation> you just didnt read it correctly,i said that his W is hard to hit,i didnt say anything about its damage.
Evil Bisex Plant1 votes[{quoted}](name=Voidstaff Wetsme,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kpYT0MRV,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-11T10:59:41.467+0000)
Pretty sure <Removed by Moderation> you just didnt read it correctly,i said that his W is hard to hit,i didnt say anything about its damage.
<Removed by Moderation> You basically said that as damage coming from Swain's W is the only thing it does after hitting it, plus you get the souls but that's useful only in a teamfight where you can hit multiple people and you will hit them if you wait for them to be CCed or you CC them yourself. The best way to hit it btw is E -> place W right in front of them -> pull them to it. I thought that everyone without "chunk of brain removed" would figure that out.
<Removed by Moderation>
JohnnyNeverSins1 votesSo i understand that you <Removed by Moderation> didnt see the coma (,) which is there to seperate different things inside a sentence,also (see im changing the subject thats why there is a coma) most people agree with me here <Removed by Moderation>
Evil Bisex Plant1 votes[{quoted}](name=Voidstaff Wetsme,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kpYT0MRV,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-11T14:35:44.892+0000)
So i understand that you <Removed by Moderation> didnt see the coma (,) which is there to seperate different things inside a sentence,also (see im changing the subject thats why there is a coma) most people agree with me here <Removed by Moderation>
What the actual fuck are you even talking about...? Nvm, I'm pretty sure you are trooling, no need to argue with that.
Ahri Baka4 votesIt's funny how I played the new Swain and I was like " omg he is so damn op " and my enemies were like " what a retar*** champion" I played him 3 matches and carried , so I went to sleep and when I came back , and everyone know how to counter me and ended up being a feeder I really think I could do way more with the old Swain , his old was Q was satisfying, w was really cool and roots many targets easier , his old e was a bit not helpful much for me , but gosh , his old Old was extremely amazing , I could tank a lot of damage for my team and heal nore and do nkre damage than the new ult The new q has a very short q cd , good for kiting , but you can't do your combo if you try to E and there are minions around , q will nit hit W is the ability that I don't why it exists , true it may be useful for many ways by putting it in a place to block the way for the enemy and has decent damage in late game in team fights , but it's hard to hit His new E is the key for the whole kit , of course you will be rewarded if you hit it , but's easy to dodge and if it's dodged , you are pretty much dead His new passivr is one of the most unique passives in the game , I love it , but without hitting E or having a teammate to root , you are dead Overall I like the new design, but man he needs buffs I miss it when I get gannked with the old Swain , I used to double kill ;-; :(
CrazFight 3 votesI think the new swain looks cooler, but he is weak, and overall just not fun to play. Even when you do get ahead its just like "eh" ok.
TeCoolMage2 votesUse W unexpectedly for bush and checking dragons beforehand, or CC them and start W cast a bit towards you, and as the root is ending auto them and pull them into the W.
Or use it as a zoning tool. People underestimate abilities like Swain W and Soraka E way too much
I'm pretty sure some people were complaining on boards Zoe was weak right after release then afterwards a counter-opinion popped up that Zoe shouldn't get buffs until later. Turns out she was actually powerful from the get go and was in fact nerfed
Power Cosmic2 votesNew Swain is also a pretty strong indirect buff to all assassins, as the old Swain was a strong anti-assassin pick.
ModCaliCoastReplay2 votesNew Swain is also a pretty strong indirect buff to all assassins, as the old Swain was a strong anti-assassin pick.
Also to toplane tanks, in my eyes. I'm banning Nasus in toplane almost 100% now, and he was countered hard by old-Swain. I tend to believe that Darius, Garen, and Illaoi also have a much easier time against him now, also semitank fighters like Riven or Fiora.
Toplane tanks are already considered to be too dominant this season, and I wouldn't be surprised if they just run rampant for the next month or so.
Power Cosmic1 votesI almost exclusively played old Swain mid.
ModJikker2 votesEdited a few unnecessary insults. Remember that we don't need to insult each other and other people's intelligence to have good debates/discussion.
Carry on
[poppy-wink]
ModCaliCoastReplay1 votesBottom line is that I just want all of his abilities to feel good to play with, like the old version. His W's animation delay is too long and it's way too weak against minions. His winrate in Gold and Plat is substantially lower than even his 47% average - it's about 43% as of today - above that, I feel like data gets sketchier since apparently very few top-level players are taking the risk on him in ranked, probably with good reason.
If his winrates don't even out within a week or two, I advise buffing his W animation time and minion damage. That's all I think would be needed to make him viable.