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Fiora's ult feels absolutely terrible to use.

Koechophe··117 votes·12,178 views

I played a lot of fiora before her rework, and I really like a lot of the elements they have put in. But her ult just feels absolutely horrible, for a lot of reasons.

For starters, it doesn't actually add any damage. Her passive comes up every .5 seconds, which means that unless you're triggering her passive every .5 seconds, dps potential remains the same. Actually hitting all 4 of the points, unless your opponent is either CC'd or a moron, is pretty much impossible, at least without getting yourself killed our out of position, so it's more like a mord ult, where you pop it and then kill for the effect you get on the enemy death. And the heal is not only almost useless in lane, but in team fights, it makes you feel less like a duelist and more like a janna. I like her new Q (though the targetting seems really off sometimes), I like her new W (though the CD is oppressively long) and I can live with her new E. But her ult is just not good. I don't care about thematics or whatever, and I'm not saying that we should bring back her old ult, I'm just saying it needs to be changed because it just feels absolutely terrible to use.

Possible solutions (not recommending that all be put in at the same time, just things I think might make the ult feel more powerful).

  1. make the heal proactive (I.E. instead of healing all at the end, make it heal 1/4 of the health as an aoe burst every time you knock out a weak spot). This would mean that the ult is useful to you while you're dueling, instead of AFTER you've already dueled.
  2. Add damage to the weak spots so that you ACTUALLY increase your DPS from using your ult
  3. While fiora is within her ult area, her dash range doubles.

160 Comments

Binxy Prime30 votes

I agree the new ult is by far the least rewarding portion of her kit. The worst part is that it has to go off immediately in a teamfight or she just dies before dealing any damage.

New fiora has such a huge identity crises, her kit screams to build her like Jax and Irelia but her base stats and defensive abilities are so bad that she becomes useless in team fights. Even when things go my way I still feel like I could have done way more on several other champions.

Purodyuusaa14 votes

Unfortunately now that she's out, I don't see Riot doing anything with her. Riot is intent on putting mini games on damn near every champion now it seems (Gangplank, Fiora, Skarner, Morde, Garen, etc). I don't see them removing this because of pride. AT best they'll probably just throw numbers at it until everyone forgets, as per their norm.

So let's just enjoy Fiora - The Confused Duelist(?) V2

Koechophe1 votes

Inb4 they rework viegar's ult into tetris.

52426480_DEL8 votes

Her ult is broken but now it actually requires a little skill to pull off. It's not even that hard either with the right items and the ability to slow. You actually have to be good with her now instead of just pressing R and going make a sandwich.

Koechophe14 votes

It's not a matter of skill. It's a matter of "if your opponent is good, they will not let you pull off all 4 vitals, they will run, forcing you to get out of position, or they will just kill you because THEIR ult allows them more dueling strength while yours actually doesn't."

I'm not saying that we should bring the old ult back. Im saying the current one really needs work.

Caytheles4 votes

Pulled it off 5/6 times. and the enemy and i were neck and neck XD Also you can use it many ways. the 6th one i used it as an escape from being chased. Worked like a charm. Just step up your game and you will get used to it.

Joquan4 votes

I mean no offense when I say this but you should not be considering personal experiences unless you are at a very good elo.

You are silver I. Fiora in silver is easier than Fiora in a higher elo due to players being better and knowing how to handle fiora.

Caytheles2 votes

I am only putting this to show that it is Possible to use her ult efficiently. not saying i am good. not saying i am bad.

Xeynid4 votes

Yes, we're all very aware that her ult does, in fact, work, assuming your opponent's don't play around it.

The problem is that her ult is insanely hard to pull off if your opponent understands that the best option after they get ulted is to run away from fiora. If their team then understands that Fiora will chase the ulted person, and that Fiora is an easy kill, then the ultimate won't work.

And in environments where people all know what they're doing, that's how it will work.

The Sword Saint3 votes

{quoted}

Yes, we're all very aware that her ult does, in fact, work, assuming your opponent's don't play around it.

The problem is that her ult is insanely hard to pull off if your opponent understands that the best option after they get ulted is to run away from fiora. If their team then understands that Fiora will chase the ulted person, and that Fiora is an easy kill, then the ultimate won't work.

And in environments where people all know what they're doing, that's how it will work.

Maybe you should be using your ult to peel people who are diving your carries then, instead of trying to chase down a squishy target.

Just a thought.

killd0zer7 votes

If the best use scenario is the GRAND DUELIST using her ult to protect an ADC, then the rework was even more of a failure than OP stated.

Droogzy14 votes

{quoted}

Maybe you should be using your ult to peel people who are diving your carries then, instead of trying to chase down a squishy target.

Just a thought.

So a grand duelist should be using their ultimate to peel for the carry?

Do you see the problem here? If that's the most efficient use of this ultimate, then this rework was atrocious.

Purodyuusaa7 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/b9aScKLxdv0Y0/giphy.gif

Thank you.

Julius Evola2 votes

This ignoring the fact, that you still can't strike all the vitals at high elo because the ADC will be kiting and thus you won't be able to hit the vitals anyway. Rofl, I was tempted to play her without skilling the ult, but it gives bonus to the passive.

Narasimha5 votes

So basically...

You want Fiora to be a tank now? Does THAT sound right to you?

Julius Evola3 votes

I've tried building her tank. She doesn't have the CC to be useful in that role. And as a bruiser, she doesn't measure up to Hecarim. She's like 1/4th the usefulness and damage of a Hecarim. I main this champ in the top 4% of players and riot destroyed her.

Julius Evola7 votes

I am a platinum 1 Fiora main. I think she is trash. There.

maikokk3 votes

i found it is best to ult someone who is near death in a team fight. hit one vital before they die and trigger the heal for the team fight

WooBeeWoo2 votes

Which is fine it makes is slightly successful but ultimately that means you are using like 35% of the ultimate.... which is lame, if I'm playing any other champ its not this hard to use my ult effectively

maikokk2 votes

its not that big of a deal considering the rest of her kit is loaded with tons of power if used correctly. who else can fight riven level 1? you thought you were knocking me up? nope. stunned. half health.

Koechophe1 votes

Uhm.... half health? Because riven has a total of 200 hp?

maikokk1 votes

you will also get a free hit on her vital and probably a second AA... so ya half health.

Koechophe1 votes

You clearly haven't thought this through. Hitting both a vital and another AA in a 1.5 second period is LITERALLY impossible at level 1 because you only have .672 attack speed which means that you'd have .00008 seconds to get to her vital and then attack. It's not possible to orb walk around a champion in .00008 seconds, nor is reaction time that fast humanly possible.

But even if you did do two attacks, here's the damage calculations.

Lvl 1 fiora has 60 AD, adding the dorean's blade and masteries/runes, we'll call it 75, so she does 75 damage per attack = 150 base damage. Added to that she'll do ~ 4% of riven's max health in true damage, and 90 magic damage from her riposte

Riven has a base of 560 hp and has a base 25 armor and 31 MR. Assuming she's a competant player and has decent runes/masteries, she'd have +10 armor and +12 MR, for a total of 35 armor and 41 mr.

So, the true damage would deal 22 damage (560 X .04 = 22.4) The AD would deal 110 damage (150 X 100/135) The Magic damage would deal 62 damage (90 X 100/141)

For a grand total of 194 damage. Riven has 560 BASE health, and probably more from runes and masteries. And, considering that it's only realistic for you to be doing 1 attack, not two, your net damage is closer to 139 (same math with one attack removed)

So the answer is no. You would not be getting riven down to half health. Not even close.

maikokk1 votes

you are talking theory and i am talking experience. the damage you are missing probably comes from the minions she takes damage from while being stunned do to being required to reach for a knockup.

CatAndBookTails8 votes

The way i have seen Fiora players use her ult ( to huge sucess i might add) was to ult the most nearby target, oneshot that player and tend to have a very good aoe heal for the team to fight in and around.

Simonizer864 votes

And wtf this has to be with a duelist?? It's completly horrible to use as a carry...well i don't know what she is anymore...

Julius Evola6 votes

If fiora's purpose is a healer, there are better champs to put in that role. That's the point. She has become a useless lane duelist that can't snowball and can't teamfight. And thus there is no reason to play her, ever.

ExcaIibur Morgan7 votes

The new ult is horrible. The only way to complete is it by using it on an enemy who is about to die. No one has time to hit all 4 vitals.

Feathermane6 votes

They really goofed with this rework. If you look at Fiora style champions, they all have to have a ludicrous skill like Alpha Strike or Counterstrike to be effective as champions who don't typically build pure tank items. Fiora's ult used to fulfill this function, with the drawback of being an ultimate, which is why she wasn't played. In the current iteration, unless she has absolutely godlike numerical values, she will be a laughing stock. And to add insult to injury, her cooldowns are MASSIVE (they are almost double of what Jax has), to the point that it's unclear what skill you should even be maxing first.

NullDragon3 votes

One point in Fiora's Riposte is singularly one of the most powerful abilities in the game.

Doing things like completely ignoring a riven stun and stunning her right back is SO. GOOD.

AMYS GRAVE6 votes

You have to run circles around your opponent just to use your ult.

Leu076 votes

Ive been testing her in bot games, just because I dont wanna feed in a normal game (ppl in lan love to rage really hard if you do that). And I think her passive and ult indicator are...stupid. Ive been hitting the hitbox of the ult and doesnt consumes, or the passive and doesnt trigger. so its really weird. It s a bot game, and I dont get to consume the 4 stacks of ults, in a normal game, I guess It would be really hard to get away with it.

So her passive...I really hope they tweak a little bit the hit box, and why we cannot used it agains the monsters of the jungle, at least dragon and baron?

Her Q...feels nice, but I wish the range was a little longer....I miss the 2 gaping in a row....maybe if you hit an enemy champion with it, it consume the vital point something like that.

Her W...it really have a long cooldown, and its not like youre going to hit the enemy with it, bots just do a sidestep and bye.

Her E...so meh...

Her ult....really a meh meh meh MEH ult, she doesnt have the mobility to reach the four points, if she could have some bonus AD of something it would be great....like old riposte.

Her build path is a hot mess, you need damage, but youre a melee, with no sustain, you dont have her ult that gave her some survival, so you need tanky items and wellp idk....feels weird.

FireOG5626 votes

Yeah this is stupid AS FUCK. I main her and to hop on and see all this is ridiculous. League STOP FUCKING WITH CHAMPS! LEAVE EM THE FUCK ALONE YOU MORONS. Def. Asking For skin refunds cause this is stupid. Her ultimate is so worthless now -.- the cd on her moves are ridiculous ! make some new skins instead of changing the whole player itself . FUCK YOUU LEAUGE GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK YOU GUYS ARE STUPID AS FUCK!!!

Julius Evola2 votes

I am about 2 games away from quitting league. I only played this game for the old Fiora. I loved her aggressive duelist nature. Now she's like canon minion status. Any games I have won on new Fiora, my team won 4v5. And it wasn't a good experience for them or for me. Amazing how your team can not even have fun WHEN THEY WIN. What!? Did I mention the artwork???????????????

Aimb072 votes

{quoted}

Yeah this is stupid AS FUCK. I main her and to hop on and see all this is ridiculous. League STOP FUCKING WITH CHAMPS! LEAVE EM THE FUCK ALONE YOU MORONS. Def. Asking For skin refunds cause this is stupid. Her ultimate is so worthless now -.- the cd on her moves are ridiculous ! make some new skins instead of changing the whole player itself . FUCK YOUU LEAUGE GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK YOU GUYS ARE STUPID AS FUCK!!!

I also asked for a refund, bought skins of her on two account and now she basically got deleted. She is so extremely bad its a joke. And the problem is, they will probably "tweak numbers" which does nothing because even if u deal 100% true dmg on ulti you wouldnt be able to pull it off ever. In a serious game that is. Its like they deleted the champ and i spend 1900 Rps on real bullshit.

MLDzXnRRR4 votes

She looks like Irelia, but has no cc and is squishy, gj RIOT...

ATCraiger4 votes

I completely agree here. I loved the old fiora, and I feel as though the new one has no place in League. She can't Jungle well, in lane her CD's are so high it's almost impossible to do well, and in team fights she can't do squat before she's completely dead. I really enjoy having the minigame of strike the bright light, but at least bring back her old ultimate, or something to make her useful again. She was my main, and now she's worse than Urgot (no offense to Urgot players).

52426480_DEL3 votes

Yeah you have to get better as her. Cause if you can't hit her Ult with BOTRK + TF, you suck. That's all there is to it. And nobody is gonna beat a skilled Fiora in lane now. Nobody.

Koechophe12 votes

I like how your argument against the logic I supplied is "l2p noob".

Here are the issues you are failing to adress:

  1. Her ult doesn't actually add any damage (passive procs every .5 seconds, so unless you could hit them faster than .5 seconds in between, there's no dps increase).
  2. The heal (which is the main power of the skill) is pretty darn useless when dueling (which is fiora's core purpose, supposedly) because it only procs after the target dies.
  3. Positioning yourself all the way around a target like that only works if the target stupid enough not to throw you horribly out of position for doing so, and is barely viable in team fights.
  4. The main power of the skill should not be that it gives you movespeed, but most people have been saying something to that effect.

But by all means, the problem is definitely that I'm just a worse player than you, Mr. Bronze 3.

Cruk3 votes

Her teamfight is really bad now concerning her ult, unless your team is rolling like a wave over the enemy, and yeah in 1v1's whats the point of the heal if you kill the target but your alone, yes i know a heal is nice for more pushing, or if youre gonna get ganked or whatever, but the main point is, her ult is really awkward.

Julius Evola2 votes

There is no weaker champion in a teamfight than this Fiora.

MalzaharAnyLane3 votes

Yeah, the ult feels beyond terrible.

Lunge having a .5 second CD during the ult would probably fix a lot wrong with her, but she still blows up instantly in teamfights in ways that positioning will never be able to fix.

The rework is a huge letdown, really. People who say 'she can play from behind now' never really played her old incarnation enough to understand why the new incarnation cannot, in fact, do that. It's still feast or famine but you're not a hypercarry anymore.

Tristyric3 votes

Her ult isn't adding any upfront power in team-fights that much is true. It's healing is useful that is also true. Because of these two facts she ends up with more of an assassins mentality. You ult the one whose lowest in HP for the fastest kill so that your team can fight on top of a healing platform. Fiora gets the most return picking off the weak rather than dueling the strong. That doesn't fit her theme at all but its 'works' more or less.

teedddyy3 votes

THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS I HATE THE NEW FIORA CAUSE NOW SHE CANT JUNGLE CAUSE HER E (ATTACK SPEED) STOPS AFTER 2 IT USUALLY STAYED FOR A LONG TIME AND HER W DOESNT GIVE AD AND HER ULT IS SO USELESS AND PATHETIC

YasuoJungleorAFK3 votes

Funny how her ulty does nothing for her 1vs1 where is the duelist in that ulty?

Arc Noir2 votes

Back in the PBE, I can't ever seem to get her ult off unless I'm coordinating super hard with someone on skype to help me engage. That's too unreliable if they aren't voice chatting with me, and the ult is completely unsatisfying if I can't hit all four. The most I can usually do is three, I would strike in front of him, dash behind him and run to strike one side, but I just don't get enough movespeed to hit the other side, I start to chase them and they end up running back to their team and I'm going to most likely end up being dead. I would get more DPS if I just stood there like a beat-stick and just thwacked them in the head, but because I have to do so much moving between my attack, ulting means I am putting myself in MORE DANGER and doing LESS because of it. The worst part is, if I get my ult off, the heal is usually nowhere near my team, because he was running away and I had to chase him.

It really needs some adjustments. :| Maybe a dash reset to like... 1-2 seconds while in her ult as long as she hits someone.

Also I wish her Riposte was quick cast by default, just sayin'.

Manwalrus2 votes

I played a lot of Fiora before her rework

You poor soul

Tsohgder2 votes

Her ult right now just makes everything more predictable for you and your opponent, it doesn't feel like a duelist thing at all, it's more like "well, let's build movespeed, wait until someone is stunned and hope everything works".

I would make it something like this.

For 6s, Vitals appear instantly after being triggered, deal 1/1,5/2% HP more damage and reduce her Q's cooldown to 1,5s.

Add a heal somewhere if you want, the point is giving her a reward for actually watching where the new vitals spawn and targetting that area. The Q reset kinda makes it feel like an ultimate now.

Only Play Darius2 votes

Yea, her ult doesn't feel "ultimatey" at all. All it does is activates her passive 4 times on a champion then you have to go and risk your life trying to hit all 4 spots to get the heal. At the moment all you do is throw it on an almost-dead champ and hit them a couple of times to outright kill them.

Swollwonder2 votes

Personally I've never tried to hit all four points. Its a noob trap. But two points are still better than one. You can usually hit the front and side one in lane or the front and back when they run. Better than no damage at all. But yes her ult is the least fun thing about her kit (although I always imagine a little angel choir when that healing circle comes up for some reason)

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