Remember when Fizz Enthusiast (a Riot employee) said Lee is broken and you know it?

Onotori·May 23, 2018·3 votes·1,111 views

And you intentionally keep him broken because he makes money?

The best part was how the community didn't even bat an eye -- and somehow people wonder why companies like EA are a thing.

{quoted}

For Lee Sin, he is just overpowered, so we're bumping him down slightly next patch - junglers are performing very well at the moment and he is the best jungler. (He adds a lot to competitive play though, so we don't want to hit him too hard).

FizzEnthusiast has changed his name since making this post I guess.

14 Comments

HalcyonDwellerMay 23, 20187 votes

Y'know if you argued reasonably and stopped using false-equivalencies people would take your arguments more seriously.

OnotoriMay 23, 20182 votes

Look up Riot FizzEnthusiast. He's on the boards and said just as much on the boards.

Of course I'm sure that post was handily "archived" since it was a couple years ago and exposes Riot's fucking bullshit.

And I don't see what I'm falsely equating. Riot is a shitty, greedy company that should not be allowed to operate as it currently does. EA is a shitty, greedy company that should not be allowed to operate as it currently does. As far as I see, they're both shitty companies.

HalcyonDwellerMay 23, 20184 votes

I'm familiar with the example, that happened in days gone by, when their policies were different.

Lee sin was nerfed since then and he's suffered from other changes to the game, he's not protected by favoritism in this day and age. So to use that as an example of Riot nowadays would be silly.

OnotoriMay 23, 20182 votes

"Nerfed," yeah. That's what 200 damage off his ult was when his Q and E still do well over 1500-2k damage in his combo plus TLD / Electrocute. And then we buffed his sustain, buffed his shield, buffed his ult PAST what it used to do, and are looking at buffing him again.

Remind me how he's been "nerfed."

And it's a great example, because Riot preached about how much they put quality first, even back then, and talked about how they don't favor certain champs. Then they say that, and despite it proving literally everything they try to make the playerbase believe wrong... no one cared. That just goes to show how fucking apathetic the modern gaming community is, and why shitty games / companies are everywhere.

HalcyonDwellerMay 24, 20182 votes

Umm... tracker's knife removal? For someone who's so keen to call Riot for their mistakes you don't seem to pay very close attention to everything they do. Or are you just ignoring the things that you determine are useless to your efforts to bash them?

SoundChaosDebugMay 23, 20183 votes

I've been playing since season 1 and I vividly remember people constantly complaining about Lee sin back in the day, but no changes ever happened because he was a play maker for LC$

OnotoriMay 23, 20183 votes

Yeah, but that's how you know Riot puts quality above all else. They're very good at showing it.

ModKnightsKemplarMay 23, 20183 votes

No, I don't.

I seriously doubt he ever said that; if he did, you might actually offer proof.

OnotoriMay 23, 20182 votes

~~Well, give me access to the archive then. 'cause the thread is too old to show up in search anymore.~~

Nevermind, I found it. He changed his name. Here's the quote, and I'll bold the important part for you.

{quoted}

Hard to say, if we made then more clunky it would be easy to brute force, but is the absolute last resort solution. We want to add Gameplay without adding clunkiness when we can.

For Lee Sin, he is just overpowered, so we're bumping him down slightly next patch - junglers are performing very well at the moment and he is the best jungler. (He adds a lot to competitive play though, so we don't want to hit him too hard).

EDIT: Want to bring him down without bricking him for normal and competitive play. Ie. He can be played but he's not in every game. It's not about playing favourites, but just balancing.

Lee is different in that he can be playable in competitive while being fair in normal. Whereas for Amumu and Sej, usually if they're playable in competitive they will probably be unfair in normal play (probably 55+% winrate). We also have some jungle changes that may be going in in the future that disproportionately hurt Lee Sin compared to other junglers. Also I believe that when Lee sin is balanced (but still playable in competitive) he doesn't disproportionately harm jungle diversity in competitive.

Yasuo I'm uncertain on the best course of action, but for sure his laning is very strong, so we could safely take that down and he would end up in a reasonable spot. Not to say for certain he needs nerfs (he is pretty frustrating to play against while being incredibly fun - negates a lot of the things you can do to him). It's interesting that one of the reasons Yasuo needs to have so many tools in his kit is because we don't have turn speed.

ModWulf HelhammerMay 23, 20184 votes

He said he was overpowered at the time, and they were nerfing him to bring him closer to other jungler's levels.

That is something entirely differently than what you say in your post.

ModKnightsKemplarMay 23, 20182 votes

It's not about playing favourites, but just balancing

So... what part of this is admitting that he's intentionally kept broken?

OnotoriMay 23, 20182 votes

I bolded the important part for you. He was the best jungler at the time, warping the game... but they didn't want to nerf him too much because he's popular in LC$ and makes money.

And the nerf they ended up giving him was a joke (-200 damage on his ult max rank).

VvVVvVMay 24, 20181 votes

Pretty sure it was the part where he said "he adds a lot to competitive play though, so we don't want to hit him to hard"

To me thats just like saying if it was a champion that was not popular in competitive play, then they would hit them harder...but because its a popular LCS champ, they chose not to.

VorpalKitsuneMay 24, 20181 votes

So from the quote that you posted, I come to understand that lee was to powerful, so they were going to nerf him, but didn't want to gut him due to him being a champ that adds a lot to competitive. No where does it say that they were going to keep him broken for it.