the reason why mobile champions are more "fun" is because there are fewer consequences for errors

Atlªs·Aug 15, 2018·149 votes·21,587 views

the best example I can think of is if Zed uses his W incorrectly he still has flash to get out of situations and vice versa if he uses flash incorrectly he still has his W to rely on. Flash on immobile champions is solely used to escape death (theoretically - I've seen some of you boosted animals out there). Keeping that in mind, immobile champions are punished harder than mobile ones and the repercussions are evident (snowball, cs lead, pressure etc.). With mobile champions you can get to lane faster, are less susceptible to ganks, and can roam easily. In some cases mobile champions mobile abilities are used to clear waves (fizz E, LB W) and they're pretty good at it. My complaint is that it is more rewarding to play sloppy on a mobile champion than near perfect on an immobile one

178 Comments

NyarlathοtepAug 15, 201874 votes

True. Too bad riot still wont put appropriate downsides on champs with dashes, like having LESS MOVEMENT SPEED. Im sick and tired of getting outrun by champs that have dash AND bigger movement speed.

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 15, 20188 votes

{quoted}

True. Too bad riot still wont put appropriate downsides on champs with dashes, like having LESS MOVEMENT SPEED. Im sick and tired of getting outrun by champs that have dash AND bigger movement speed.

but ma guy fiora only has 90% of her damage as true damage, sustain, poke vs melee, a 2 second dash and an invulnerability how would she function if she didn't outrun ulted yi/singed.

AxzariousAug 15, 20189 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kiuEEJ8Q,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-15T12:03:27.653+0000)

but ma guy fiora only has 90% of her damage as true damage, sustain, poke vs melee, a 2 second dash and an invulnerability how would she function if she didn't outrun ulted yi/singed.

Don't forget the extra movement speed and heal Fiora gets when proccing a vital.

Wood Tier IVAug 17, 20181 votes

She gets the ms just from ulting, not even hitting a vital. Ult someone n run at them.

Void KaijuAug 15, 20183 votes

Fiora doesn't get to spam her mobility if she is using it to run away. It has low cooldown when used as an attack and a decently long one of used to escape.this doesn't mean I like fiora. I don't. But let's not pick one of the few relatively decent mobility things to poke holes in

AirKingNeoAug 16, 20183 votes

when in the world does Fiora outrun Singed or Yi?

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 16, 20182 votes

{quoted}

when in the world does Fiora outrun Singed or Yi?

when she procs 1 vital. which really isn't hard with her lunge.

AirKingNeoAug 16, 20181 votes

I repeat my question since that answer is invalid.

When in the world does Fiora outrun Singed or Yi?

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I repeat my question since that answer is invalid.

When in the world does Fiora outrun Singed or Yi?

alright smartass. tell me when she doesn't then.

AirKingNeoAug 16, 20181 votes

when Yi uses ult and Singed uses ult because they get more speed and permable speed instead of very temporary speed?

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

when Yi uses ult and Singed uses ult because they get more speed and permable speed instead of very temporary speed?

She has built in glacial (vs singed) and a 2(+/-) second dash.

AirKingNeoAug 16, 20181 votes

ok? they get out of the dash range in 2 seconds.

Child of the PitAug 15, 201837 votes

{quoted}

True. Too bad riot still wont put appropriate downsides on champs with dashes, like having LESS MOVEMENT SPEED. Im sick and tired of getting outrun by champs that have dash AND bigger movement speed.

Did you know that Lee Sin has one of the highest base movespeeds? Because poor guy is so immobile, it's not like his Q is a dash, and his W basically a free flash if you have a ward up, it's also not like his E just slows you a fuckton, so it's near impossible to outrun him.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 15, 20181 votes

Lee needs one of the highest base movement speeds because he's a jungler. It has nothing to do with his mobility, it's because junglers need to move fast.

LeftyRaydyAug 15, 201820 votes

Well if this was true Nautilus would have better move speed right? he was a jungler LONG before he was a support.

agac4234Aug 15, 20181 votes

he has grappel which he can use to get around lee doesnt

LeftyRaydyAug 15, 201810 votes

Are you serious his LONG CD Q which is terrible for getting away by the way, when lee can just plant a ward and jump to it lol. You really want to compare?

Z3SleeperAug 16, 20184 votes

Not to mention Naut's abysmally high mana costs that dissuade him from using Q this way.

TotalJerkAug 16, 20181 votes

His ms was actually nerfed a while ago.

Child of the PitAug 16, 20184 votes

{quoted}

His ms was actually nerfed a while ago.

By 5.

And yet champs like Mordekaiser root at 325 base ms without any mobility spells, while a champ with two high mobility spells has 345

Wood Tier IVAug 17, 20181 votes

I actually didn't believe you when you said a 0 cc 0 mobility melee champion had 325 ms. I looked it up. HOLY FUCK riot what? Explain pls! I actually can't believe it.

TotalJerkAug 17, 20181 votes

You're not making the case for nerfing Lee's MS. You're making the case for buffing Morde's.

Child of the PitAug 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You're not making the case for nerfing Lee's MS. You're making the case for buffing Morde's.

Neither, im comparing both to show how ridicilously overtuned Lee Sin's mobility is. Which makes it self explainatory that either his spell mobility should get nerfed, or his Base movespeed by at least 10 more.

IG ZikoAug 15, 20182 votes

In the case of Zed, his dash has 24 second cooldown and remains like that untill he starts putting points on W level 14.

The problem is that many champs have too much damage on their mobility ability and they max it 1st like leblanc, fizz and camille. They get that ability on 10 seconds cooldown at level 9.

I feel like mobility spells shouldn't be also the main tool of damage/waveclear so that a champion can't get the best of the 2 worlds by maxing 1 ability.

EvilUnicornLordAug 15, 201825 votes

Well this is an actual discussion.

It's not a complaint, it's not ranting, it's not even suggesting, it's just talking about the mechanics of the game.

You, sir, deserve an upvote.

NetorareAug 15, 201815 votes

Mobile champs are pretty much bronze mentality friendly, if someone fucked up his flash he should've died but no because he has braindead mobility in his kit... Dodging skillshots using ur brain is better than using stupid mobility.

Shukr4nAug 15, 20184 votes

The point is not "honor" to bait skillshots

MarothennanAug 15, 201811 votes

I'll tell you why they are fun. I remember there was an old patch ( in season 4 I think ) when Lee Sin got nerfed and Morello said this: "Lee Sin is very fun. Shitting on people is fun. Therefore, Lee Sin is very fun. But Lee Sin probably shouldn’t just shit on people." That's why hypermobile champions are fun, because mobility allows you to easily shit on your enemies.

Sex Crazed EveAug 15, 20187 votes

tbf anyone not accounting for a champion's mobility is making an error.

AseraanAug 15, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sèx Crazed Eve,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kiuEEJ8Q,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-08-15T13:43:37.000+0000)

tbf anyone not accounting for a champion's mobility is making an error.

TBH i do acount it but sometimes i still cant do jacksht about 3 ppl dashing on me. From my sight i think the game should have more movement speed steroid skills or slows and less dash/blink or leap im not gona trashtalk on mobility cuz i dont see the point of it but camellies hookshot is retarded long like a snake and a black pornstar's lovechild long...........

LakegaAug 15, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sèx Crazed Eve,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kiuEEJ8Q,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-08-15T13:43:37.000+0000)

tbf anyone not accounting for a champion's mobility is making an error.

You mean like the whole Riot balance team?

VeraskaAug 15, 20186 votes

I think mobile champions are fun because their mobile not because their forgiving

I think people tend to overlook some important variables when they talk about "immobile vs mobility" like the single most important and strongest stat in the game- range, plays a big part in it

Champions that are immobile generally have strong range so they can fullfill their role safely from outside the enemies threat range Lux Xerath Ashe not that these champioms arent vulnerable they very susceptible to being rushed on, thats just their strength

Lets take yr listed mobile champion Zed into consideration, a squishy glass cannon melee champion who has to stay in melee range and within the entire enemy teams threat zone to fulfill their role on the team, probably needs some tools to exist, and while a mobile champion can rush an immobile champion a a ranged champion can poke, harass, and bully a ranged one

And then theres champions that are mobile and ranged Tristana Leblanc Ahri and whenever these champions are good theyre dominant, they dont make the strengths/weaknesses trades thats the other listed champs do

So while a balanced mobile champion can get around and choose fights better, their effective range puts them in danger whenever they choose to do so, and the skill exspression comes from timing, target selection, and execution

Try playing zed or fizz against a fed Lulu with a Lulu and Maokai next to them, its not as forgiving as youd think

TheWizardMAug 15, 201810 votes

The problem with thta in League is that some mobile champions have such great mobility that the range difference doesn't even matter at that point.

Spicy RiceAug 15, 20182 votes

Which is when you need to take other factors into consideration.

For example, which is better in a 1v1, zed or lux? Obviously zed, because his mobility allows him to close in to pump out his massive damage easily.

Now, which is better in a 5v5 team fight? In this case, lux, since she can spam spells with nigh impunity, assuming she has a somewhat balanced team comp that can protect her from the mobile champs.

Slythrin UmbreonAug 15, 20187 votes

Which would work, if teamfights were more relevant and the game wasn't practically over before they started.

Spicy RiceAug 15, 20185 votes

Which is a well known problem atm.

Hence, the only reason mobility feels super overbearing is because it excels in the current game state, where games are decided before team fights become relevant.

So instead of complaining about mobile champs, we should be focused on changing the pacing of the game

TheCodeisCupCakeAug 15, 20186 votes

I mean, mobile champions are too fast to outrun and too fast to catch?

Where is the trade off here [sg-lux-2]

HungryAngry2SPPAug 15, 20185 votes

{quoted}

the best example I can think of is if Zed uses his W incorrectly he still has flash to get out of situations and visa versa

" visa versa" https://i.imgur.com/Y1TW5zW.jpg[] VERSA

ARGH, my Italian eyez are bleeding, pls fix

ModCaptainMårvelousAug 16, 20185 votes

If I may: I actually think tank metas are the most "fun" for most people here because there's little-to-no consequence in a tank meta.

For your example, sloppy play often request the use of an instant, burned resource. There's a reason junglers will spam-ping Flash because it means it'll be on CD for the foreseeable future, removing a valuable tool. Not always the case, yes, but often that loss of a resource can be crippling and make champions (in an ideal situation) double check their surroundings. Also in high damage metas like this, defensive play requires split-second timing or you get burst, meaning mobility actually matters less here as squeamishness is a bigger detriment than lacking mobility.

Tank metas with long teamfights not only allow this in spades but sometimes are long enough that you can get off multiple uses of a rotation you miss. It also means there's less consequence to poor positioning/play because you'll survive longer and be able to avoid death. Tank metas are, in the end, the most sloppy and forgiving meta. Damage is low. Durability is high and even the strongest tankbuster will take some time to chew through a tough target.

wildfox99Aug 15, 20184 votes

the best example I can think of is if Zed uses his W incorrectly he still has flash to get out of situations and visa versa if he uses flash incorrectly he still has his W to rely on. Flash on immobile champions is solely used to escape death (theoretically - I've seen some of you boosted animals out there).

so zed flash have less CD than immobile champions?

he must use his W for trading and when he does he can easily get ganked

also many immobile champions can use their flash offensively (ie. summoner 4 + R Annie Malzahar )

also most of the mobile champions give up something for their mobility (often range,waveclear and/or utilities)

Keeping that in mind, immobile champions are punished harder than mobile ones and the repercussions are evident (snowball, cs lead, pressure etc.)

immobile champions can snowball as well

have you ever tried to farm against a fed Darius ?

or lane against a fed Cassiopeia ?

you get raped everytime you try to last-hit a minion

i think the reason why most of immobile champions feels bad to play it's because most of them have an outdated and binary kit (regardless the fact that they are mobile or not)

Handy Sandy Aug 15, 20184 votes

also many immobile champions can use their flash offensively (ie. + R )

Anyone can, but immobile champions would rather not do that because the next time they get caught out they're going to die.

also most of the mobile champions give up something for their mobility (often range,waveclear and/or utilities

Who and what do they give up? Ahri Zed Yasuo give up nothing. Zed and Yas could "give up range" being melee, but if you have mobility range doesn't start to matter as much as you'd think. Leblanc who gives up waveclear, but it doesnt really balance out when her damage is not only reliable, but also high

immobile champions can snowball as well

but they're easier to shut down because they have no escapes and can't outrun

have you ever tried to farm against a fed ? or lane against a fed ?

Have you tried to farm against a fed Ahri Leblanc Yasuo Zed it's way worse because they can actually reach you from half the lane away. And pretty much no matter what, you'll never win a 1v1 against them because of the sheer damage they're capable of doing in such a short amount of time.

i think the reason why most of immobile champions feels bad to play it's because most of them have an outdated and binary kit (regardless the fact that they are mobile or not)

They feel bad to play because the last couple champion releases as well as long term notorious ones have set the "modern" bar so high Akali Zoe Camille Yasuo Leblanc that if you don't dash 3 times, have high burst damage that's on a low cooldown, and can all-in at level 3, or have some other dumb thing in your kit you're no longer capable of being meta.

wildfox99Aug 15, 20184 votes

Who and what do they give up? give up nothing. Zed and Yas could "give up range" being melee, but if you have mobility range doesn't start to matter as much as you'd think. who gives up waveclear, but it doesnt really balance out when her damage is not only reliable, but also high

Ahri gives up

reliability
AoE damage (lower than other mages)
range/defense (she have less defensive tools than any close range mage,also her range sucks compared with many burst mages such as syndra,lux or xearath)
damage (her full rotation deals way less damage than other mids)
less CC than other mages (single target skillshot)
her only mobility tools it's an ultimate with 110 sec CD,i wouldn't call her hypermobile

Zed

really weak AoE compared with immobile champions (in this case immobile mages)
needs to be in a melee range
telegraphed combo
no utility,no useful CC

Yasuo CT champion,i said all his only tradeoff is that he have no escapes in his kit and he needs to be close for fighting (aka he's a free gank)

also range matters,especially on zed and ahri that have long CD on their mobility (they can't use it so often,both needs to poke you in a low range),plus it requies you to get near and so getting some risk (especially when you have a good juungler or you are not 1 vs 1)

but they're easier to shut down because they have no escapes and can't outrun

no,a mobile champion can escape once (like many immobile champions can disengage with some CC or zoning ability) but the next time he will get caught

let's take as example ahri against a fed immobile mage,if she uses her ult as escape for the next 110 sec she won't be able to get near the minion waves because without her ult she's a walking minion without escapes

maybe you meant hypermobile champions such as le blanc,but she's supposed to be oppressive in lane since she's one of the feast of famine champions that rely on showball for winning the game (aka just don't fed her and she will fall off anyway)

Have you tried to farm against a fed it's way worse because they can actually reach you from half the lane away.

yeah many times

you freeze under your tower and they can't do much,they need to get close for killing you but they can't dash under your tower also if they oneshot you you don't go for item 3285 as if you won the lane but for some defensive items such as item 3102 item 3111 item 3010 item 3157

you'll never win a 1v1 against them because of the sheer damage they're capable of doing in such a short amount of time.

that's the definition of a fed champion

They feel bad to play because the last couple champion releases (...)

Yasuo Leblanc new champions [zombie-brand-mindblown]

those champions have always been here,picks like talon and le blanc could oneshot you at lvl 3 since their release (i don't remember when byt it was before S4,and trust me once they were 1000 times worse than now),the only difference is that now people use them as excuse for circlejerking (it's not me it's the game being broken) instead of learning how to play against them

Handy Sandy Aug 15, 20181 votes

ur litterally an ahri main lmao yes she's a mobile champion.

wildfox99Aug 15, 20182 votes

her mobility is still limited and you can play around it,she can use her dashes once every 110 sec,before and after it she's like an immobile mage

ahri doesn't use her mobility for trading but only in extreme cases like when she want to all-in or gets engaged,your whole argument doesn't make sense on her (Noor Sakata said enough)

Noor SakataAug 15, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Anyone can, but immobile champions would rather not do that because the next time they get caught out they're going to die.

Who and what do they give up? give up nothing. Zed and Yas could "give up range" being melee, but if you have mobility range doesn't start to matter as much as you'd think. who gives up waveclear, but it doesnt really balance out when her damage is not only reliable, but also high

but they're easier to shut down because they have no escapes and can't outrun

Have you tried to farm against a fed it's way worse because they can actually reach you from half the lane away. And pretty much no matter what, you'll never win a 1v1 against them because of the sheer damage they're capable of doing in such a short amount of time.

They feel bad to play because the last couple champion releases as well as long term notorious ones have set the "modern" bar so high that if you don't dash 3 times, have high burst damage that's on a low cooldown, and can all-in at level 3, or have some other dumb thing in your kit you're no longer capable of being meta.

Why are you even putting Ahri in your list ? Ahri isn't completely mobile , she is basically an immobile mage till she gets her Ult , When she is fed she is pain to deal with , that's sure , like any other champion in the game being mobile or immobile , her wave clear is near perfect , yes , because she is a mage , but what does she give up on for having an ultimate that gives her 3 dashes ? she basically gives up on Damage , Aoe , Utility , and CC Let's compare her with another Immobile mage , Lux , Lux generally has more damage in her kit , Has an Aoe shield and has a better CC , Ahri has her charm tho it's not an Aoe CC ability But at the end Ahri has the same weaknesses Lux has , Mobility and MR , all of Ahri's counters are assassins and any champion that can buy item 3155 , ways to beat Ahri ? force her to use her ult , and All in her when she has no ult , she feels more useless than Lux when she has no ult Thought Ahri is in a better place than Lux and most of immobile mages right now , why ? Because Ahri can use the most broken Keystone which is Electrocute and Ignite , Ahri can run from ganks and stuff whenever she has Ult , Lux and most of immobile mages can't , that's why Ahri is in better place BUT , does that mean Ahri is broken? no , that means she is in a good place , nothing more , and she isn't like Zed who misses everything and still kills , Ahri MUST hit her charm to kill , unless she is ahead then that team she must hit both of her Q's.

And don't forget , Ahri is a champion that stays behind when gets behind , she is like other mages , she can be 3/0 in lane , Kill a Fizz or Zed or Talon 3 times , they can still come back and kill you , the exact same problem mages have.

chipndip1Aug 15, 20183 votes

The problem with these boards is that they're blatantly wrong, they spin fake news constantly, AND they want to be taken seriously. It just doesn't work that way.

AtlªsAug 15, 20187 votes

How is this fake news? I really don't understand what you're getting at.

AhrisAug 15, 20181 votes

I find immobile champs also strong too. They usually have much stronger abilities than mobile champs and can most of time outscale mobile ones(mobility is only good early/midgame).

MordepoolAug 15, 20185 votes

Mobility= good at every stage of the game

AhrisAug 15, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Mobility= good at every stage of the game

Not rlly. Lategame Kogmaw is crazy powerful and so is Syndra. Orianna is crazy strong as well as Ziggs and Xerath.

Their range and utility is MUCH stronger than their selfish mobility lategame.

Zed only has damage and falls off late. Ahri only has single target cc and falls off late. Leblanc is gated by range and delayed single target cc.

Kassadin is Melee and has a horrible earlygame.

So like, mobility isnt as good as many claim. Many champs played in pro are mostly immobile midlaners exception of Yasuo who needs minions for mobility.

Taliyah is also immobile, and Jinx is quite immobile.

Immobile champs got so much power that I rather have no mobility if i can have what they have. Because mobility is to forgive your positioning, so they will just be easier to play. With no mobility, got to play safer, but instead has other really powerful tools.

There is a reason why highly mobile champ you claim arent used in competitive like Ahri, Zed, Fizz, and many more. It is because they dont offer nearly as much tools as immoble ones.

Range and utility is what most immobile champs have that makes them good in all game long.

Mordekaiser is special example of someone who offers team utility and close/ranged damage and be relevant as well.