Why does Riot consistently make arbitrary changes to champions? (ie; Ahri E buffs then R nerf)

Atlªs·Oct 12, 2018·9 votes·3,819 views

Ahri's R wasn't the reason why her win rate sky rocketed. It was her E. So then why make changes to her R? No one was complaining about her R. Currently her E has the same type of issue (NOT THE SAME EXACT ISSUE) that Ryze 1s W had. People didn't have time to dodge Q or EQ after being rooted with W which is why they reduced it to .75s. Once I get hit by charm, I can't dodge the Q unless they miss it. So why nerf the R? She was perfectly fine prior to her E buffs. If you want to sell a skin, do it the right way not the cheesy way.

22 Comments

ShadWoooOct 12, 20188 votes

they generally don't want to revert previous changes - that would be accepting a mistake, so they make compensational changes instead

GayFluffyUnicornOct 12, 20182 votes

Pretty much this.

Also riot has a hardon for specific abilities, interactions whatever they want to keep at all costs even if they have to nerf and remove the entire kit.

MorganFreemanBotOct 12, 20184 votes

Because some parts of the kit are harder to use than others.

For example, Ahri's E is a fairly narrow skillshot which doesn't move exceedingly fast and has a wind-up. This means that it's not stupendously difficult to dodge, and landing it generally represents the Ahri 'outplaying' her enemy, whether by positioning right next to them or landing it at max rank.

On the flip side, Ahri's R.. Isn't that. It's a ground targeted dash. It also deals damage. There damage automatically targets, and even automatically prioritizes champions. As a result, "dash in the general vicinity of enemy targets" is enough to nuke people. This really doesn't display skill at all; the ability isn't difficult to use.

AtlªsOct 12, 20181 votes

I'm sorry but landing one E shouldn't mean that I should instantly die. I fucking hate that they increased the duration of her E for 2 reasons, 1) increased duration gives more time to apply other abilities for 20% increased damage through E passive (this could be an easy thing to nerf but once again, no one wants to touch the problematic spell) 2) increased E duration allows for smaller gap between spell rotation meaning that 7 second CD Q now becomes ~5.7s. Honestly, the right nerf would be to keep the duration BUT to reduce E amplified damage. Landing one E shouldn't be immediate death.

Noor SakataOct 12, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry but landing one E shouldn't mean that I should instantly die. I fucking hate that they increased the duration of her E for 2 reasons, 1) increased duration gives more time to apply other abilities for 20% increased damage through E passive (this could be an easy thing to nerf but once again, no one wants to touch the problematic spell) 2) increased E duration allows for smaller gap between spell rotation meaning that 7 second CD Q now becomes ~5.7s. Honestly, the right nerf would be to keep the duration BUT to reduce E amplified damage. Landing one E shouldn't be immediate death.

Well that's how she is , a burst mage , like Lux , if you don't like it , you should either deal with it or ban her , not like she is that op or something , she is pretty balanced , the way you complain about her is exactly like circle jerking , she lands E , a key to land her full combo , she bursted you ? well she did a full combo , for that , her early full combo doesn't kill anyone , and she has a really high mana costs , I can name some champions who can point click you and won't even land half of their kits , and then it kills you , no for real , if you don't like getting killed if you get cc'ed then ban her and good luck dealing with other champions , not to forget that her charm duration in early levels isn't enough to land her second q , she gets hard countered by MR and MR boots completely destroy her and her charm , that's only the case if she lands charm lol

AtlªsOct 12, 20181 votes

For a Gold 1 Ahri main at 62% win rate in 190+ games, you should know that Lux isn't really a burst mage, she is more of an artillery mage despite what Riot claims her to be. Just by looking at your statistics I can tell that you win with Ahri simply through how powerful she is and not by csing. Your average cs per game is 5.5? That means you're missing 7 cs per minute...like what? You know you abuse Ahri but you're too ignorant to admit it but its okay.

and she has a really high mana costs

Maybe you should play Ryze if you think Ahri has "high mana costs". Ahri doesn't have scaling mana costs on abilities other than her R which mean she can get away with building Ludens. Her mana costs on W is 40 mana (lmao) and E are 70 NOT scaling. Her E isn't hard to land. It is a linear projectile that isn't telegraphed. In fact, she is one of the only burst mages (Annie, Brand, Karma, LeBlanc, Lissandra, Lux, Orianna, Syndra, Twisted Fate, Veigar, Zoe, Zyra). Out of those champions, only Lux and Ahri don't telegraph their burst. Both of them have the same type of ability, linear, fast skill shot that isn't difficult to land on champions that don't have hyper mobility.

I can name some champions who can point click you and won't even land half of their kits

If you're talking about Ryze, you're very wrong. When playing Ryze I have to land several rotations of spells to kill someone.... not pressing 2 buttons, doing true damage + amplified damage like Ahri does.

not to forget that her charm duration in early levels isn't enough to land her second q

Wait, do you want charm duration to be long enough to land 2 Qs? or are you talking about return damage? If you E then Q immediately after, you will most certainly land the 2nd part of Q unless you're bad. If you thik 1.4 seconds isn't enough, imagine .75s Ryze W where you are less likely to hit EQ or empowered W at 1.5s. I understand Ryze W is a point and click, but with mercury treads you're reducing it to .54 seconds which isn't enough time to EQ or even land Q. You are completely delusional about your champion, I hope you continue thinking she is weak though because it is hilarious to see Ahri mains complain about their decent champion. When you get hit with real nerfs and get to the level of Ryze, then come talk to me.

Also, check out my (banned) account where I ONLY played Ryze games: http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=diamondseed

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/49599032

I have CS better than you, I rotate better than you, I play my champion better than you but you complain you're champion is weak WHILE you know and statistics show that Ahri is a top tier midlaner. You simply win by playing the broken champion. You win by your champions excessive power instead of skill and finesse.

Noor SakataOct 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

For a Gold 1 Ahri main at 62% win rate in 190+ games, you should know that Lux isn't really a burst mage, she is more of an artillery mage despite what Riot claims her to be. Just by looking at your statistics I can tell that you win with Ahri simply through how powerful she is and not by csing. Your average cs per game is 5.5? That means you're missing 7 cs per minute...like what? You know you abuse Ahri but you're too ignorant to admit it but its okay.

Maybe you should play Ryze if you think Ahri has "high mana costs". Ahri doesn't have scaling mana costs on abilities other than her R which mean she can get away with building Ludens. Her mana costs on W is 40 mana (lmao) and E are 70 NOT scaling. Her E isn't hard to land. It is a linear projectile that isn't telegraphed. In fact, she is one of the only burst mages (Annie, Brand, Karma, LeBlanc, Lissandra, Lux, Orianna, Syndra, Twisted Fate, Veigar, Zoe, Zyra). Out of those champions, only Lux and Ahri don't telegraph their burst. Both of them have the same type of ability, linear, fast skill shot that isn't difficult to land on champions that don't have hyper mobility.

If you're talking about Ryze, you're very wrong. When playing Ryze I have to land several rotations of spells to kill someone.... not pressing 2 buttons, doing true damage + amplified damage like Ahri does.

Wait, do you want charm duration to be long enough to land 2 Qs? or are you talking about return damage? If you E then Q immediately after, you will most certainly land the 2nd part of Q unless you're bad. If you thik 1.4 seconds isn't enough, imagine .75s Ryze W where you are less likely to hit EQ or empowered W at 1.5s. I understand Ryze W is a point and click, but with mercury treads you're reducing it to .54 seconds which isn't enough time to EQ or even land Q. You are completely delusional about your champion, I hope you continue thinking she is weak though because it is hilarious to see Ahri mains complain about their decent champion. When you get hit with real nerfs and get to the level of Ryze, then come talk to me.

Also, check out my (banned) account where I ONLY played Ryze games: http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=diamondseed

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/49599032

I have CS better than you, I rotate better than you, I play my champion better than you but you complain you're champion is weak WHILE you know and statistics show that Ahri is a top tier midlaner. You simply win by playing the broken champion. You win by your champions excessive power instead of skill and finesse.

Wot , you seem to me more like Delusional and biased against everything about Ahri lol , more like one of those Boards Ahri haters Powerful ? what kind of arguments you are trying to make ? abusing ? she is my main since I started playing the game

62% winrate in gold elo isn't that big either , I'm bad at csing lol , you checked my op.gg , then you should have noticed that all of my csing is generally bad with all my champions , and I mostly spend my matches roaming with all champions I play , even as Top lane , I just leave it and go roam bot lane , that was always the best strategy to win , her mana costs are surely high , higher than most of mages in the game , however it gets nice later after buying items like most of mages , don't compare her to Ryze Lux is a burst mage , her kit is exactly the same way as Ahri , land her cc then get time to land your full combo , no one can change that fact

Wait, do you want charm duration to be long enough to land 2 Qs?

Who said I want that ?

Ryze is a dps mage , why are you in the world comparing him to Ahri ?

and again , STOP COMPARING AHRI TO RYZE lol what's wrong with you

I never said she is weak , no , she isn't , you are the delusional one here

and again , I didn't complain , just show me when did I complain exactly ?

I'd rather not reply not your latest two lines, that would be better for both of us

But seriously , I'm not from NA or something so my English is pretty bad , can't choose the right words for arguing , but you as a person who uses wrong facts to argue with , that's not cool tbh , change it.

Ahri Body PillowOct 12, 20183 votes

Because Ahri players wanted her to have her Kiss of Death fantasy back. If you get hit by charm, you die.

However, it was clear that the E buffs, while returning her to her old iteration of Kiss of Death assassin, pushed her over the edge over a little bit. So they instead chose to make her more high risk high reward by nerfing her safety.

Seems pretty logical to me. People have been complaining about her safety for along time, by the way. Also, increased R CD means less opportunities to reposition yourself for a lethal charm.

AtlªsOct 12, 20181 votes

E buffs should have been followed by E damage amplification reduced. 20% amplification is HUGE, especially one you get Luden's Echo.

Nerfing her safety? There is a net 16s change (with Ludens 20%) R at level 6, and a net 8s change at level 11. They didn't reduce her safety at all. Do you know how long 16s is? that is half the time for the next minion wave to come up and 8 seconds is even less than that. I think they should have kept her R CD the way it was, no one was complaining about her R.

Huge complaint of mine is how other burst mages telegraph their burst but two (Lux, Ahri) (maybe there are others) do not telegraph their burst. This is why people don't like playing versus Lux. The second she lands her snare, you're more than likely dead. Ahri is the same exact champion but with more mobility and less CC.

Ahri Body PillowOct 12, 20182 votes

No. The damage amp itself was a fine change. The second E buff was what did her in.

An increase in her dash cooldown is nerfing her safety, fuil stop. It's your opinion that they didn't nerf it enough, and I respect that opinion, even thought I disagree with it. A big complaint among the community was the fact that it was nearly impossible to gank her. 16s is a LONG time in League of Legends dude.

What do you mean by telegraph their burst? Expand on that a bit for me, please.

wildfox9TOct 13, 20181 votes

E buffs should have been followed by E damage amplification reduced. 20% amplification is HUGE, especially one you get Luden's Echo.

if you read the tooltip or play the champion once you'll know that it only amp her abilities,other damage sources (AA,runes,items and so on) don't get affected

also 20% would be huge on a champion with decent scalings,but she's one of the champions with the lowest base damage + scalings,some supports literally outdamage her abilities without it

Nerfing her safety? There is a net 16s change (with Ludens 20%) R at level 6, and a net 8s change at level 11. They didn't reduce her safety at all. Do you know how long 16s is? that is half the time for the next minion wave to come up and 8 seconds is even less than that. I think they should have kept her R CD the way it was, no one was complaining about her R.

show me a game where you get luden at lvl 6 [zombie-brand-clap]

also you are assuming that she gets CDR while her opponent doesn't,some champions have 100 sec CD on her ult if not less vs her 130,it means if they trade her ult with hers they have a room of about half minute for killing her without her ult (assassins like Zed or Fizz can easily dive her at this point)

and this is why this change was terrible,in some matchups she barely get affected (mostly vs artillery mages),in some others it's almost impossible to lane if the opponent is decent (on top of that if enemy jungler ganks you once you can as well open your lane) basically a "situational" nerf

Huge complaint of mine is how other burst mages telegraph their burst but two

what Syndra are Viktor you Zoe talking Annie about ? Taliyah

lux have to land her Q,if she misses it she's a free kill unless she's hiding behind her teammates,and in this case i agree it's frustrating

ahri's E have less range and you can hide behind other units,so in most cases she have to ult in before landing it if you know how the champion works she's one of the most telegraphed mages

Cotten Eyed JoeOct 12, 20181 votes

They buffed her E and to compensate, made her less mobile. They do this often. It's called balancing the game.

AtlªsOct 12, 20182 votes

They didn't make her less mobile. They made it to where she can't use R for what...20 seconds? Better nerfs would be mana increasing mana costs on Q or E but no, they need to sell skins. What happened to compensating champions that actually need compensation? Like Kog'Maw after the numerous Rageblade changes because one champions (Kai'sa). What happened to the plethora of Ryze nerfs with NO compensation to any aspect of his kit? Don't kid yourself.

Cotten Eyed JoeOct 12, 20181 votes

Well generally, if the CD on her R is higher, it makes her less mobile.

Noor SakataOct 12, 20181 votes

[deleted]

AtlªsOct 12, 20181 votes

Why does the game constantly need to be fresh? For example, look at Starcraft changes. They aren't meta warping, otherwise no one would play the game consistently. There are people who enjoy playing the same champions and these meta warping changes that make (Ahri) champions go from equally powerful to more powerful is really annoying.

EleshakaiOct 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Why does the game constantly need to be fresh? For example, look at Starcraft changes. They aren't meta warping, otherwise no one would play the game consistently. There are people who enjoy playing the same champions and these meta warping changes that make (Ahri) champions go from equally powerful to more powerful is really annoying.

There are many different philosophies to game design. If you don't like Riot's, then League might not be the ideal game for you...

AtlªsOct 12, 20181 votes

You're right, maybe league isn't for me because the game I started playing 3 years ago isn't the same game I play right now. It's pathetic, gimmicky, and extremely biased in terms of balance. The balance team have completely given up on some champions (Morde, Ryze, Azir, Kalista) and have focused on creating new balancing issues (Irelia, Akali, Aatrox, Urgot). Instead of fixing previous issues, they've gone and created new money milking mechanics/champions.

EleshakaiOct 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You're right, maybe league isn't for me because the game I started playing 3 years ago isn't the same game I play right now. It's pathetic, gimmicky, and extremely biased in terms of balance. The balance team have completely given up on some champions (Morde, Ryze, Azir, Kalista) and have focused on creating new balancing issues (Irelia, Akali, Aatrox, Urgot). Instead of fixing previous issues, they've gone and created new money milking mechanics/champions.

I feel like we're playing completely different games based off of reading the above paragraph, but I won't argue with you.

Noor SakataOct 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Why does the game constantly need to be fresh? For example, look at Starcraft changes. They aren't meta warping, otherwise no one would play the game consistently. There are people who enjoy playing the same champions and these meta warping changes that make (Ahri) champions go from equally powerful to more powerful is really annoying.

Like Hell if I know ? they said so , why are you asking me

warpenguin555Oct 12, 20181 votes

This right here is my main point of frustration with the balance team. Changes like that make champions feel like shit to play afterwards. Using Ahri as an example, she went from having an overtuned e to having an overtuned e and a weaker r. Instead of making the problem slightly better all they did was make another one.