I've already seen this absurdity on the likes of Riven, Graves, Illaoi and even some ADCs like Lucian. If you can build this with PD, it becomes even more disgusting. Glass cannon itemization should not give defense like this, not in this form. The answer isn't to nerf tabis either, DD and PD need to have this shit removed.
ShiftyMcGee13 votesAgreed - the right combo of items just becomes waaay too gimmicky.
+ 
+ 
+
on any AD assassin, fighter/duelist, or ADC is just stupid. They are getting loads of offensive stats, a well-rounded set of defensive stats, and multiple no-skill "saves". If you combine all that with something like Talon or Khazix being able to just jump over a wall as one of their normal cooldowns (note the +20% CDR with these items as well), it's just stupid.
"Outplayed" my ass.
I think that the general rule is that they need to scale back all effects and stats of ALL items, and make it more about playing the champions for who they are. It's more of a true chess match to me that way, instead of a flavor of the month combo of items.
Don't get me wrong, I 100% know that Riot works really hard to try and balance things, but when you've got over 100 champs and all their varied stats + abilities, in addition to 200 items, where maybe 40 or 50 of them have extremely high stats and powerful abilities, striking a perfect balance becomes like trying to get a perfect bracket in March Madness WITH perfect score outcomes as well - never gonna happen. However, if you scale back the size of one of the factors/variables as just a blanket move, then there's exponentially less to worry about. Scaling back items/effects might also help identify which champions really fall off in the end game, or have absolutely no early game, etc, so they can really focus on balancing the actual champions.
I'd put money on the idea that the majority of the community would prefer the game to be more like straight-up "rock-paper-scissors" without the recurring scenario of "oh but scissors bought , , , , and 
for good measure, better luck next time, Rock."
TEA Nietzsche 3 votesI'd put money on the idea that the majority of the community would prefer the game to be more like straight-up "rock-paper-scissors" without the recurring scenario of "oh but scissors bought
No, what the actual fuck. I want skill to be involved and not just lose in champion select. This is just BS. It's fine to have advantages based on champ select, but hard counters should not exist.
Rexxiee12 votesLifesteal items by definition arent glass cannon items, they help you survive, you are literally paying stats for lifesteal rather than more damage.
IE is a glass cannon item, all of the zeal items except PD are glass cannon items, BT/DD arent glass cannon items and you do pay sgnificant amounts of gold for non dmg stats.
Ralanr3 votesThey are highly offensive items which may as well be regarded as glass cannon items because they are used in glass Cannon builds.
Or am I suddenly supposed to call Jinx with a Bloodthirster a bruiser?
Crede7776 votesJust because Jinx hasn't built glass cannon doesn't mean she is automatically a bruiser. Glass cannon means all offense no defense or survivability. Lifesteal is a defensive or survivability stat as it helps you mitigate damage taken by healing it back.
Automated Riven4 votesWhile you are technically correct lifesteal in every game I have ever played (rpg and moba alike) is a part of the glass cannon high dps builds. To stray away from every other game to say that now this stat makes champions non glass cannon is kinda silly.
Salron4 votesWhen the term "glass cannon" is used, it's usually referring to the class of champions that would build the item Like ADCs
Ralanr3 votesI guess if ADCs aren't glass cannons, then juggernauts aren't tanks.
SteelMankind8 votesThey arent, according to Riot. They're a fighter subclass
Ralanr2 votesI know. I was making a point.
Troll for Trump3 votesBut he's saying ADCs are glass cannons, and that comment agrees with it.
Ralanr3 votesI'm saying Rex is a hypocrite since he considers anything tanky and tank but an adc with a Bloodthirster isn't a glass cannon to him.
ShaolinToilet2 votesHe never said ADCs aren't glass cannons and tanky champions are tanks.
Dreampod2 votesHonestly all the Zeal items have some fairly significant defensive nature from their move speed just because mobility and positioning are the primary 'defense' that ADs use. They make a big difference in successfully kiting or avoiding getting initiated on.
TheGoomyGamer11 votesGlass cannon itemization
An item that reduces damage by 30% is NOT a glass cannon item.
SwaggyMcGhee42049 votesIt doesn't reduce damage by 30%...
HateDaddy11 votesIt doesn't reduce damage by 30%...
It may as well, regenerating/lifestealing through the DoT doesn't take much
It Hertz When IP39 votesLiterally all the DoT effect does is partially mitigate burst. You still take the same damage as before.
PD, now, that shit's straight up BS.
Blackstone0111 votesDoTs SHOULD do more damage than burst since its over a duration. Tbh it should take 30% of damage and make it deal 40% over the duration.
Votable Jester3 votesHe is correct in that it gives you more time to lifesteal it back up after the fight's over (so the dot doesn't finish you off).
SoryInAdvance1 votesit wouldn't be after the fight is over, its got to be during the fight. the bleed isn't that long.
Votable Jester2 votesYou take a third of the bleed's stored damage every second, so that's 3 seconds (assuming it's a third of the total otherwise it is longer) to heal back up a bit. That's enough for a couple autos and any spells available.
SoryInAdvance2 votesStill not after the fight usually unless you aced the other team. That's going to need to be healed up pretty much immediately.
Seekêr11 votesQuit saying "reduce" the term for this mitigation is "stagger". It is not a glass cannon item, it is a bruiser item. Building it causes you to lose damage from crit. It is only a problem when an adc gets ahead and is able to abuse it while still Having the gold to out damage the enemy adc.
Whether the adc abuses it or opts for more damage, an adc that is ahead is going to be a problem.
The item isn't the reason the carries are performing well, it is just your scapegoat.
TotalJerk8 votesIt is not a glass cannon item, it is a bruiser item.
The item was created in Season 6 during the ADC class rework and it was intended to help ADCs fight back against burst. The fact that you say this shows that it completely failed to be what it was meant to be.
Seekêr2 votesThey have since said that it was poorly designed and they are redesigning it around bruisers, who are the only ones who ever used.
Think about it, they put cdr on a lifesteal item that gives mitigation. I dont know why they ever thought anyone aside from bruisers and ad assassins would build it.
GrReaper962 votesBuilding it causes you to lose damage from crit
Expect you sacrifice a lifesteal item 
to get it. Heck the only reason it isnt being abused is because how OP is right now anyways
Very Hard Engage6 votesbut then what would riven/graves/lee etc do if they run into a late game scaling champion who happened to be crushed in the early game?
i mean those early game champions NEED their late game power too! its not intended that they just fall off because the enemy swain/vlad reached their 6 item stage? RIGHT?!??1?
chipndip18 votesRiven and Graves aren't exactly early game champs. More like mid game?
HateDaddy5 votesRiven and Graves aren't exactly early game champs. More like mid game?
I would go as far as considering both of them strong late game champions
Most people suck with them and dont utilize them properly. In fact, graves winrate increases at 40 minutes after a mid/late game dip because 5-6 items graves is terrifying. The same is true for Riven. These champions don't fall off, they simply experience some dips at the end of mid game, beginning of the late game. But this still isn't considering their colossally powerful early games and their ridiculous mid games.
Fed by Snu Snu6 votes 
Is just great against burst. I'm not sure if it's actually needed or not, due to the insane power creeping in terms of burst, but it's a lot of pseudo-mitigation and it's, personally, welcome in a game where it takes ages to kill tanks.
Other than that, just wait for 
and 
to get 
nerfed.
Cosmic Warper5 votes[{quoted}](name=Fed by Snu Snu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kcLpHFiZ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-05-05T15:10:22.624+0000)
Is just great against burst. I'm not sure if it's actually needed or not, due to the insane power creeping in terms of burst, but it's a lot of pseudo-mitigation and it's, personally, welcome in a game where it takes ages to kill tanks.
Other than that, just wait for
It takes ages to kill tanks? Where lmao
Mira Arya Enthe3 votes10 seconds for a full DPS Ashe to kill a full tank Cho or Nautilus and that was after Riven applied BC to them.
Cosmic Warper2 votes[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kcLpHFiZ,comment-id=000300020000,timestamp=2017-05-05T18:05:29.465+0000)
10 seconds for a full DPS Ashe to kill a full tank Cho or Nautilus and that was after Riven applied BC to them.
Show me where a full build dps ashe can't kill nautilus in under 10s
Mira Arya Enthe4 voteshttps://vid.me/IOkl I don't have a Nautilus clip, Nautilus would have a shield but 900 less HP than this cho had. Note that BC was fully applied to him.
Cosmic Warper6 votes[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kcLpHFiZ,comment-id=00030002000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-05T19:17:26.355+0000)
https://vid.me/IOkl I don't have a Nautilus clip, Nautilus would have a shield but 900 less HP than this cho had. Note that BC was fully applied to him.
It took you 6s to kill him and you went PD over IE... I don't see the problem. What, you want assassin levels of damage against a tank to kill him in 2-3s? That should never happen
Mira Arya Enthe3 votesThe video was 7.5s and he already was missing 10% of his HP when the recording started. And I did not kill him alone, I had Jayce and Riven assisting me. He isn't even a true tank either, he just has a lot of HP, no shields and none of us were CC'd to shut down our damage like with a Nautilus. Not saying ADCs need to do more damage, but I think 7-10 seconds to kill a tank in a patchwork fight with no interruptions is more than lasting long enough vs 3 people.
PermabannedGaren8 votes[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kcLpHFiZ,comment-id=0003000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-05T19:33:20.447+0000)
The video was 7.5s and he already was missing 10% of his HP when the recording started. And I did not kill him alone, I had Jayce and Riven assisting me. He isn't even a true tank either, he just has a lot of HP, no shields and none of us were CC'd to shut down our damage like with a Nautilus. Not saying ADCs need to do more damage, but I think 7-10 seconds to kill a tank in a patchwork fight with no interruptions is more than lasting long enough vs 3 people.
You also had a low damage build though.
Would have shredded him far more easily.
Mira Arya Enthe2 votesHe also isn't a true tank, he had no team backing him up, I had no interruptions to my DPS and he was shredded by BC and Jayce's %HP damage.. He also didn't have ideal tanking runes and masteries. The amount of damage lost by doing the build I went for(which was for other factors in the match) is plenty made up for by him not having a real tanking steroid alone.
But I am working on actual DPS tests right now so I can make an official post addressing the "Full Armor Rammus die in 1.5 seconds to underfed Tristana!?!?!" bs once and for all.
3TWarrior2 votesunless chogath built an AP setup, most chogath are tanks and can mix it up with damage should the game draw out
Sahn Uzal4 votesYou missed out on a litteral ton of damage with the no IE tho.
Mira Arya Enthe1 votesHe also isn't a true tank, he had no team backing him up, I had no interruptions to my DPS and he was shredded by BC and Jayce's %HP damage.. He also didn't have ideal tanking runes and masteries. The amount of damage lost by doing the build I went for(which was for other factors in the match) is plenty made up for by him not having a real tanking steroid alone.
But I am working on actual DPS tests right now so I can make an official post addressing the "Full Armor Rammus die in 1.5 seconds to underfed Tristana!?!?!" bs once and for all.
Sahn Uzal4 votesHe had a Rod of Ages. That's 500 health, A true tank with a Similar item build very well may have had an Adaptive helm instead, which would give him 300 health instead.
All I see is Riven autoing him once and backing off.
Jayce used a Q, got silenced and ran in circles. He then chunked Cho'Gath with his E when he was getting low. Before dying to Kassadin
Are you seriously telling me Cho'Gath does not have a tanking steroid? He probably had like 1k bonus health from his ultimate lol, so yes, your build did cost you a lot of damage. and as someone pointed out before, it took you about 7 seconds to kill the Cho'Gath, not 10. That aside, even for tank standards it kills a damn long time to kill a Cho'Gath, yeah.
"Full Armor Rammus die in 1.5 seconds to underfed Tristana!?!?!"
A tank might die to an ADC in 2-3 seconds if they facetank the ADC without threathening or disrupting them. That's completely their fault.
Mira Arya Enthe1 votesWell already tested Ashe's standard full crit build(basically similar to what Permabanned Garen suggested) and only got 1088 dps over 5 seconds if not pre-stacking fervor and Q, 1400 dps if prestacking fervor and Q. And this was vs a 100 armor target dummy with no runes, masteries, item passives, ability passives, ability actives, item actives or team support. Not a 250-350 armor tank with tabi, Randuins, CC, tanking steroids and masteries. Course need to get my friend on for live tests since a Target dummy cannot do BotRK.
Sahn Uzal2 votesInteresting. My practice mode Ashe is doing over 1500 damage per second with prestacked fervor and Q
Mira Arya Enthe1 votesAre you building GA? Which is basically manditory on ADCs now. Either way 1500 with prestacked fervor and Q vs a 100 armor target dummy.
Sahn Uzal4 votes The build Permabanned Garen suggested. No, GA is not 100% mandatory.
You've been playing since season 2, you should know you need to adapt your build to the game you're in.
1500 damage per second is more than enough if you ask me.
I don't get what you're trying to prove here anyway. Is it that ADC's are underpowered? They're absolutely not. Is it that tanks are overpowered? Outside of the outliners Cough Sej Cough, I wouldn't say so.
Sahn Uzal2 votesAs I've mentioned before, that's just dumb.
I'll call ADC mains out for stupidity, but I'll call Tank players out for it all the same.