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Camille needs her strength shifted

The Ecdysiast··1 votes·1,196 views

First and foremost, there is no reason a high-damage champion with a large, low cooldown shield should have two escapes. Second, oddly, people are focusing her E precisely because it's such a powerful ability for the fact it has two dashes, a high AS steroid, and a stun with relatively high damage for the cost and cooldown that other, even similar champions pay to have one of the three. Then there's the fact that since the true damage conversion on her Q scales with champion level, not rank, and includes Spellblade you don't actually need to put points into it for it to be powerful.

Just as Sion isn't intended to be focusing and poking with his E, Camille isn't supposed to be able to get away with leaving her main damage ability weak in favor of her dash.

Her E should have its attack speed steroid reduced (though her double AA reset still allows you to overcome this easily), and damage decreased. And her Q should scale its conversion with ability rank. Though it really doesn't fit her theme to have it convert to true damage, when her shield is adaptive and her ultimate grants magic damage. It should be magic damage conversion, not true.

11 Comments

Chembaron Yamada2 votes

  1. How do you come up with 2 escapes? The only thing that truly can be used for escaping is her E. I don't see another in her kit, maybe you can enlighten me.

  2. What you are suggesting here is not just a shift of power (which would be net neutral), but a nerf. I don't really see a reason to nerf her right now, she doesn't seem to be overbearing in high elo right now according to the stats.

  3. That her Q converts into true damage fits her theme perfectly. The idea behind that skill is that she is cutting with such high precision that she completely bypasses the armor of her enemy, hence why it is called "Precision Protocol"

Vlada Cut1 votes

{quoted}

  1. How do you come up with 2 escapes? The only thing that truly can be used for escaping is her E. I don't see another in her kit, maybe you can enlighten me.

  2. What you are suggesting here is not just a shift of power (which would be net neutral), but a nerf. I don't really see a reason to nerf her right now, she doesn't seem to be overbearing in high elo right now according to the stats.

  3. That her Q converts into true damage fits her theme perfectly. The idea behind that skill is that she is cutting with such high precision that she completely bypasses the armor of her enemy, hence why it is called "Precision Protocol"

This. ^ Also the whole point of her true damage Q is to enable her to build raw ad instead of lethality. Unless someonendecides to go item 3071 for shredding.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

  1. Her E is two escapes. A person with only one dash would not get the luxury of catching up to her. Even similar champions with two dashes would need to land an ability to get the second one.

  2. The mobility on top of her counter-less damage and ability to negate the opponent's escape is not a strength she should be able to focus on, nor abuse as reliably as she does. My suggestion is indeed neutral, as I'm suggesting they give her stronger early dueling in exchange for some of her ability to escape from bad positioning completely unscathed. Swapping her champion level conversion to ability rank conversion would allow her a higher conversion earlier in the game.

  3. Still, no, it doesn't. A guaranteed critical strike is what fits what you're claiming is the theme. But even then, the theme among the rest of her abilities is combined magic with physical, to coincide with the fact she is a hextech creation. Not "precision". Hell, a large-area sweep is the antithesis of a precise attack.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

  1. No, her E is one escape. 2 escapes would have the benefit that they can be used at seperated times. Her E is one ability and the second dash has to happen in sequence of the first. So you are basically just claiming that this are 2 escapes to make your argument seem valid.

  2. You are reducing her attack speed steroid and the direct damage from E. Especially in the early game, in which resistances aren't high anyway, there is absolutely no way that these changes would be net neutral, it would be a nerf. If you want it to be net neutral, buff the base bonus damage from her Q additionally.

  3. Again, she strikes with such precision that she bypasses your armor. Which means true damage. Crits still get reduced by armor and that is not the point of her Q. And the rest of her abilities don't have the theme "magic combined with physical". Her passive generates a shield against magic damage or physical, then her ult is dealing some magic damage. And the reason why her ult deals magic damage is not, because of thematic reasons, but balancing. They didn't want the ult damage to be so easily countered by armor (which you will probably buy, since most of her damage dealt is physical). The amount of damage your ult gives is pretty low and the ult doesn't last long, so they wanted it to be less counterable by armor. It has nothing to do with her hextech augmentation.

She is about precision, here are some quotes from her in game: "Precision is the difference between a butcher and a surgeon." "A professional is marked by precision." "Precision is the only standard that matters."

Meanwhile she doesn't mention magic in any form.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

  1. It has the use of two escapes. It can both get you 800 units away, and over a wall.

  2. Increasing the conversion would increase the damage.

  3. No, it doesn't. You can pretend that's what it means all you like, but if the literal god of war doesn't do true damage, you have no argument.

What she says is directly opposed to her actual design. She uses magic two different ways.

Vlada Cut1 votes

Yeah, I'd still rather max Q and W for 1k damage on each spell. E's damage was low already before the nerf, but still...the second jump/leap is extremly short if you are leaping AWAY from enemies, it's only long if you are leapig towards then. It's a better diviving/engage tool rather than a disengaging tool. And even if it was a good disengage spell, it would still cost you as much mana as you would Q W someone. Having a mana cost that big for someone like Camllie is fair enough already.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

200+ 75% AD isn't low damage for an ability with a .75 stun and a 5 second 80% AS increase And no, the leap isn't low at all. It's 1200 minimum, 1600 towards enemies. All that for a measly 70 mana cost on a champion who rushes Trinity Force for the mana and synergizes with it better than any other melee champion. Then she can simply build defenses on top of it.

For comparison, the closest example is Pantheon's W. Which has only 600 range and can't be used to escape, stuns for a similar 1 second, does 35 less base damage WITHOUT scaling any AD, has a 13 second cooldown and can't effectively be focused. Meanwhile he can't effectively build a mana item first. And falls off because he can't build defenses.

You can't just pretend her E mana cost is too high when her Q's cost is only 25 for two casts.

Don't let your bias in favor of her blind you to the reality.

Vlada Cut1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kbuRWPgc,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-07-25T00:15:31.425+0000)

200+ 75% AD isn't low damage for an ability with a .75 stun and a 5 second 80% AS increase And no, the leap isn't low at all. It's 1200 minimum, 1600 towards enemies. All that for a measly 70 mana cost on a champion who rushes Trinity Force for the mana and synergizes with it better than any other melee champion. Then she can simply build defenses on top of it.

For comparison, the closest example is Pantheon's W. Which has only 600 range and can't be used to escape, stuns for a similar 1 second, does 35 less base damage WITHOUT scaling any AD, has a 13 second cooldown and can't effectively be focused. Meanwhile he can't effectively build a mana item first. And falls off because he can't build defenses.

You can't just pretend her E mana cost is too high when her Q's cost is only 25 for two casts.

Don't let your bias in favor of her blind you to the reality.

Cut the ego, you're crying about Camille? Can't 1v1 her in the laning phase? Too bad, no wonder why you want to shift her hyperscaling so much.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Oh I see, you don't actually have a refute to my points. So because you're afraid they'd nerf a champion you seemingly don't know how to play, you're resorting to nonsense.

Vlada Cut1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kbuRWPgc,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-26T19:02:43.092+0000)

Oh I see, you don't actually have a refute to my points. So because you're afraid they'd nerf a champion you seemingly don't know how to play, you're resorting to nonsense.

Calling a person who mains the champ dumb makes you look even more ridiculius than you already are. The more you talk and cry about Camille the less serious you look. End of story. [sg-ezreal]

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Sorry, but if you main the champ and still somehow don't know how to use her strengths, I can't really help you.

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