Riot nerfing Ryze is opening Pandora's Box...

Remlap1223··7 votes·2,644 views

While I agree that Ryze is a little powerful right now, he's a necessary evil at this point. Because once these Mana AP nerfs go through and Ryze gets taken out of play, you're going to have a much bigger problem on your hands: Fizz.

I've said it time and time again, but Fizz's kit bloating makes Lee Sin jealous. Fizz gets free, pretty much everything: damage reduction, unit collision ignore, grievous wounds, burst damage, damage over time, on hit effects, invulnerability, 2 gap closers, and an ultimate that slows and knocks-up champions. Ryze's W was the only think keeping Fizz from troll polling to victory. With Ryze out of the picture (at least that's what it looks like) Fizz will have no viable hard counters. Not even blowhard Yasuo can match Fizz's anti-fun laning. I encourage the reds to look into a Fizz kit rework, because I feel it in my bones that Fizz is going to be the mid-lane terror of Season 5.

46 Comments

Greedalox15 votes

You could just nerf Pandoras Box.

Centuros10 votes

So Ryze is the ONLY champion that can beat Fizz? In that case, they BOTH need nerfs.

I agree Fizz is annoying, but what does Ryze have to do with how OP Fizz is? Even if Ryze was buffed, Fizz would still be at the same level of power.

Remlap12233 votes

I've been crying for Fizz to be nerfed since the first match I played against one. My cries have fell upon deaf ears (or people tell me to go fornicate with a rusty knife). The point I'm making is that Ryze was very much the only thing keeping Fizz in check. And if Ryze goes and nothing is done about Fizz (why would they, he hasn't been played in the amounts Ryze has, so Rito just assumes he's Vlad tier) Fizz is going fuck everyone silly with his trident.

Marenjii3 votes

How exactly was Ryze stopping Fizz from ulting his team?

Remlap12231 votes

By pressing R then rolling his face on the keyboard. Fizz gets stupid damage reduction from auto attacks, but that hospitality doesn't extend to magic. Ryze melts Fizz, and once he can't build tank anymore, he won't be able to safely engage Fizz anymore.

Marenjii1 votes

And how does this stop Fizz from pressing R?

Amoline Hastur1 votes

I've been crying for Fizz to be nerfed since the first match I played against one. My cries have fell upon deaf ears (or people tell me to go fornicate with a rusty knife). The point I'm making is that Ryze was very much the only thing keeping Fizz in check. And if Ryze goes and nothing is done about Fizz (why would they, he hasn't been played in the amounts Ryze has, so Rito just assumes he's Vlad tier) Fizz is going fuck everyone silly with his trident.

i want you to fornicate with a rusty knife

12tales2 votes

Ryze is considered a lane counter to Fizz. He shares that distinction with pretty much every champion with instant CC (Lissandra, Annie, Fiddlesticks, Malzahar), due to their ability to avoid having their damage mitigated by Playful/Trickster. Ryze is by far the most popular champion in the set, however - hence the concern, I imagine.

Marenjii1 votes

Since when was Fizz, and Ryze in the same lane? Who was taking Ryze mid to counter Fizz?

Worgslarg1 votes

It's a simple idea. You pick a hard counter, and no matter where fizz goes, ryze follows. even if bot and mid swap, ryze follows fizz.

Marenjii1 votes

Ok, by this logic, how is losing mana scalings going to hurt him when he fights an AP such as Fizz? If you think Riot is just going to gut Ryze like that and not up his AP ratios or bases then you probably need to stop posting for a minute.

Worgslarg2 votes

Talon, kassadin, and leblanc would like to say hello.

Marenjii1 votes

None of them completely lost a scaling though. Kass had a mini rework, LB only lost a CC, and Talon had his CC changed.

Worgslarg1 votes

Leblanc, talon, and kass were all gutted. Kass because riot couldn't balance his mobility, leblanc and talon got silences removed with no real buff; the removal of ryze's mana scalings on w-e is minor compared to the nerfbat they hit leblanc and talon with.

Marenjii1 votes

So losing CC such as in Talon's and LB's case is comparable to losing a shit ton of damage from completely removing a scaling? LB and Talon can still burst, they just can't do it as safely anymore. Ryze win't be able to kill as fast as he does now if he does not get any base or ratio buffs. Add me in game, and if Riot buffs Ryze and don't give him back his mana ratios you owe me a skin.

12tales1 votes

...anyone who likes the matchup, I assume.

Raykushi5 votes
  1. There are some rare champions out there that can beat Fizz though(by the way I think theRyze nerf is incredibly necessary). An Orianna that puts 2 levels into her Command: Shield can withstand his combo fairly well in lane. A rare champion but Malzahar also shuts Fizz down, with his long ranged ability to farm - at lvl 6 Malz hardly needs to be at the wave to farm the minions, and if fizz goes all in on Malzahar, it's going to be a commitment because of Malz's ultimate.

If Fizz proves to be too much of an issue, they'll nerf him as well, or he'll be a priority ban, but Orianna and Malzahar are examples of those who do well against him.

MathewKnight2 votes

Mordekaiser dont forget this guy

exiledFromBadmen1 votes

Huehuehuehuehuheue

DarthSpectrum5 votes

That is saying that Fizz isn't OP already.

I have no idea how the players complained about Kassadin and Yasuo when Fizz exists. His Q has 100% AD scaling, 60% AP scaling, base AP damage, low CD, and applies on hit effects - and that is only 1 move in his kit.

His W is both a passive DoT, and an hyper-carry active that also applies grievous wounds.

Fizz's E allows him to dodge ANY damage in the game, jump over terrain, slows, and also deals the highest damage in game for what would be considered a defensive ability.

At this point, Fizz doesn't even need his ult to kill anyone.

I completely agree with you that Fizz needs to be reworked.

MathewKnight1 votes

but then Mordekaiser would run out of fish sticks :/

EvilRabbitt1 votes

Just make sure when you have those fish sticks, you don't kill us Ahri. (I haven't touched her in a bit, fell in love with Orianna and Nasus...hyper carry super killer and hyper carry one man army... Ahri is just a ball of fun ^^)

12tales2 votes

His Q has 100% AD scaling, 60% AP scaling, base AP damage, low CD, and applies on hit effects - and that is only 1 move in his kit.

Compare to Jax's W, which has 100% AD scaling, 60% AP scaling, even higher base AP damage, even lower CD and applies on hit effects. And consider that Jax is trash right now.

MrBuffington2 votes

Jax rarely builds more than 2 offensive items, though, and doesn't have Fizz's mobility. I might be mistaken but I think Jax isn't favored because splitpush strategies generally favor champions like AD Nidalee

12tales2 votes

Also, Riot kicked him between the legs a couple patches ago.

The point, tho, is that an ability with the description he provides isn't necessarily enough to make a champion OP, or even viable.

MrBuffington2 votes

that's true, his base stats took a pretty big hit

and also true, look at Poppy; 4 sources of damage on her Q, but, from what I understand, she's got such a weak early game

Marenjii3 votes

Implying Fizz will go top lane now. Implying Fizz is already not an issue. Implying Ryze is the only one with CC good enough to stop Fizz. Why does this even have upvotes?

Remlap12233 votes

Have you tried to hit Fizz with a skillshot snare or stun? (Protip, you can't once his E goes off of it's ridiculously low cooldown)

Marenjii2 votes

Have you ever tried to hit Fizz with a targeted ability and he troll poles on top of you? As Ryze you are not killing Fizz fast enough. Once he is unsnared, he is dropping his combo on you.

EvilRabbitt1 votes

I upvoted this cause orianna. <3 Btw.... (not denying fizz to be near god tier. just look at his W and think Gnar hyper with steroids) Fizz is a champion based on denying melee champs and moving fast and often. Vayne would blow his face up (assuming they know what they are doing) by knocking him back and having her passive powers, along with using CDR to stealth often. Off the top of my head, these champs would have a fair time fighting Fizz (assuming skill ofc, and not taking into account Exhaust)

Anivia Galio Gnar Irelia JarvanIV Jax Leona Malzahar Nasus Nautilus Orianna Riven Udyr Vayne Vladimir Warwick Zed

MathewKnight2 votes

why is mordi not in this!!! he is a direct counter to fizz

EvilRabbitt1 votes

Off the top of my head. These are champs I have an idea of what the do OR that I have used to kill Fizz's. I have never understood or played Morde, only run from him as he chased me when I played Ahri. =( How can they do such mean things to such a kind soul? BAD MORDE COMMUNITY, BAD! =P

Marenjii1 votes

Fizz will playful the condemn, and use his AoE from ult and playful to destroy Vayne. Gnar is not touching Fizz. Some of those are skill match ups as well.

Genova Fearbane3 votes

Ryze - Decrease base damage, increase AP scaling, helps mark the line between tank and mage (Increasing Mana scaling wouldn't do much cause of Frozen Heart and Rod of Ages) Fizz - Increase mana costs and cooldowns, causing less and more risky engages Yasuo - Fine where he is, people think he's a lot stronger than he actually is. If I see another nerf on him I'm gonna explode.

Long Dong Wukong3 votes

I hate Fizz so much

Centuros2 votes

Speaking of the Trollpole, I STILL don't get why they removed the ability to pop projectiles from Vlad's Sanguine Pool, (and Flash, but that was definitely warranted), but then released another champion with an untargetable state that does pop projectiles. And they STILL haven't nerfed that aspect of Playful/Trickster (why the "/" in the name btw? It's only ever one skill) OR buffed Sanguine Pool back up.

junglerboy161 votes

They did give Vlad back the ability to pop projectiles a while back this season, they tried to hide it under a "bug fix" even though they had intentionally nerfed it at first.

exiledFromBadmen2 votes

Don't forget RappelElise , but it deals no damage. Sanguine PoolVladimir deals low damage. I think Fizz should choose one. Invulnerability or damage. I hate him tho.

MathewKnight1 votes

i love devouring fizz with ol huekaiser.....very very tastey

Llanite1 votes

It's been ages since Ryze actually a mid laner :|

And Ryze stopped being hard counter since Banshee rework. It's a 50:50 lane, in fact, 30:70 to Fizz side if the jungler could get him a slight lead.

12tales1 votes

Ryze is a much safer blind pick in top lane, sure, but there's no reason not to run him mid if he can get a good matchup . A Ryze with a farm lane is going to be unstoppable late game no matter which solo lane he was in originally.

Hi im Paco1 votes

Diana

NovemberrRose1 votes

fizz is fine lol

NoMonku1 votes

You make it sound like Ryze's W doesn't root anymore. Also you usually don't matchup in lane with Fizz as Ryze as I've seen, so I don't know why that matchup matters.

Khristophoros1 votes

So what you're saying is maybe they'll finally cut away unnecessary mechanics from Fizz's kit? Good.

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