I'm done with being held hostage by LeaverBuster.

Remlap1223·Feb 9, 2016·177 votes·6,995 views

If someone DC's or AFKs, the game should be safe to leave. I'm tired of teammates dragging 4v5s out to forty minutes in normals. The win rate %chance of winning a 4v5 is 13%, and that's if someone actually reconnects. It's almost zero if they never do. So stop forcing me to stay in a normal game because of some arbitrary bullshit rule. I play normals to have fun. I'm not having fun when I'm getting stomped because we're down a person, and knowing we're going to lose despite wasting 40 minutes. Just put in a safe to leave feature. It really isn't something that's too much to ask for.

111 Comments

AerilusFeb 9, 201637 votes

LeaverBuster is fine but there should be an option to leave if the AFK/Disconnected person isn't playing by 12 minutes in without loss or LeaverBuster penalty. Of course this can be abused, but it would be better to have this feature with limited abuse than have so many 4v5 games all the time which is far worse a consequence than someone dodging game early.

You can win 4v5, but you shouldn't have to try, it's just stupid. Everyone's counter argument to this is 'You can win 4v5 easy' yes, only if the other team is just screwing around and not trying, but it's not really fun either way.

Don't expect the forum to agree with you, they love unfair matches and smurfing as well.

YumaS2AstralFeb 9, 201611 votes

{quoted}

LeaverBuster is fine but there should be an option to leave if the AFK/Disconnected person isn't playing by 12 minutes in without loss or LeaverBuster penalty. Of course this can be abused, but it would be better to have this feature with limited abuse than have so many 4v5 games all the time which is far worse a consequence than someone dodging game early.

You can win 4v5, but you shouldn't have to try, it's just stupid. Everyone's counter argument to this is 'You can win 4v5 easy' yes, only if the other team is just screwing around and not trying, but it's not really fun either way.

Don't expect the forum to agree with you, they love unfair matches and smurfing as well.

A good solution to that would be to only allow one safe to leave per day.

This way, people would have to wait one day to be able to leave a match safely. They could still play, but they couldn't leave again. This could mitigate the abuse (not completely prevent it)

Remlap1223Feb 9, 20167 votes

{quoted}

A good solution to that would be to only allow one safe to leave per day.

This way, people would have to wait one day to be able to leave a match safely. They could still play, but they couldn't leave again. This could mitigate the abuse (not completely prevent it)

Honestly, I'd be ok with that. If you're really getting stuck with more than one leaver per day, you probably shouldn't be playing League that day.

iamthegoatofwarFeb 9, 20165 votes

unless i'm miss reading you're saying I should stop playing the game due to my teammates inability to manage a schedule correctly?

Remlap1223Feb 9, 20164 votes

Yes. No seriously. Stop playing. If you're getting a DC more than once a day, just stop playing. That means either you're getting really unlucky and just need to find something else to do, or perhaps the servers exploded again.

I don't continue playing Darkest Dungeon when the enemy gets three dodges and lucky crits and wipes my party, and if you're getting 4 out of 5 games with someone in your party missing, it might be time y to stop playing.

Spacesuit SpiffFeb 9, 20165 votes

Thats not how that works tbh. Flipping a coin to heads 9 times in a row doesnt change the fact that its 50 50 on the next flip. Unless youre claiming that there are times of day more likely to have dcs. And that certainly isnt the case in DD.

Tired of this "well stop having bad luck" response to everything with no usable advice. Its a step away from victim blaming.

Remlap1223Feb 9, 20163 votes

How the hell did you take "maybe don't play the game if you're consistently not getting matched up evenly" to "victim blaming?"

The reason I say this is because I personally get really tilted when I'm stuck in 4v5s (why i made the thread in the first place). I'm pretty sure that I am not the only one that thinks like that. My patience will wear thin because I want to have a good game. In normal circumstances, I'd tell someone who keeps getting caught out play safe in a nice way, but because I had a previous game ruined by a leaver, I'm more likely to interpret that behavior as some other dipshit sabotaging my game, even though he/she didn't do anything to me personally.

You're telling me IM victim blaming when about 3 people in this thread at least have said "git gud shulda carried". If there's one thing I hate more than people brigading in the boards, it's misconstruting words.

Spacesuit SpiffFeb 10, 20162 votes

Eh fair enough, i didnt realize you were talking about tilt and not "karma" or whatever.

DerZermetzelteFeb 9, 20164 votes

I can't understand why this is downvoted. It's not an insult, but a well meant tip that someone's karma this day isn't in shape to get good teammates.

AerilusFeb 9, 20166 votes

That would work well, I think it would cut out the abuse over time. Anyone who abuses the feature would regret it once they have a real game with AFK, and then eventually they would hopefully abuse it less.

Lazypeon100Feb 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

A good solution to that would be to only allow one safe to leave per day.

This way, people would have to wait one day to be able to leave a match safely. They could still play, but they couldn't leave again. This could mitigate the abuse (not completely prevent it)

Question, how would this work if say you have already safely left a game yet you get another afk? The rest of your team has no reason to stick it out and can safely leave, but you are stuck there.

Wouldn't that lead to an overall more punishing play experience for those with unfortunate luck? Not only are they stuck there when more team mates leave, but they could still be held hostage by a different team mate who still refuses to surrender.

DaemonmatrixFeb 10, 20161 votes

Yeah except that would require everyone on your team to have it available or they too would have to sit and wait. Why not a 10 minute surrender that isn't counted as a loss.

Rew711Feb 9, 20162 votes

If I worked in coding, I would try to write a system for Leaver Buster that if a player seems to disconnect, reconnect, and disconnect continuously often all in 2-4 minutes, then they get a safe pass if they are disconnected. If a player is moving and doing stuff, they get a free pass to reconnect if something happens to make them abruptly disconnect. As someone who knows a little about coding, these features could be instated. This isn't rocket science, people.

General Esdeath Feb 10, 20162 votes

An easy way to prevent the abuse is by being harsher on afk/leavers. Someone suggested this and another person said "What's stopping them from pressuring their feeding team mate to leave?"

Easy, I don't care what my team says to me I ain't leaving a game and risking a ban for them.

Mr VulcanatorFeb 9, 201617 votes

In Dota 2 if someone abandons or is disconnected for 5 minutes the game becomes safe to leave for the remaining players. It works in Dota 2, and I think it would work here.

stealthfox94Feb 9, 20162 votes

Too bad Dota sucks.

Mr VulcanatorFeb 9, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Too bad Dota sucks.

That was unnecessary.

DecritFeb 9, 20161 votes

How does that work for rankeds? There is no pressure by the teammates since there is no surr vote afaik

Excitidly InsaneFeb 9, 20162 votes

Well DOTA 2 still operates on a Prisoner's Island system, and you can't play ranked again until you leave the lower priority queue if memory serves me correctly.

One leave in ranked would/does/will/might trigger the LP queue and force you to grind normals with an even longer queue time. I sadly had to leave a succession of games on a particularly unlucky day for myself and got placed in it, but thankfully I stick to normals.

Ulquiorra995Feb 10, 20162 votes

I'm pretty sure that MMR of both teams still changes. So, you still lose ranking, but at least you aren't forced to sit through the game until the end.

Ulquiorra995Feb 9, 201611 votes

Eh, after the minion buff I just completely gave up on 4v5s, simply giving an AFK 5 minutes to reconnect and then leaving myself if they don't. I don't play everyday so my 4v5 games have enough distance from each other to not warrant a ban. Sorry, Riot. If you refuse to fix your sistem, then I refuse to cope with it, and i don't give a flying fuck about what you or all those "just carry 4v5" people think.

That being said, even if I get a short ban eventually, my MOBA thirst can be satisfied with that other game which not only refuses to keep its players hostage in an unfair game, but also gives buffs to the outnumbered team to make it fair if they decide to fight against the odds,

MyrmironFeb 9, 20165 votes

+1 & free bump. I hate this stuff, lost games should be safe to leave.

ItsCalledALanceFeb 9, 20165 votes

LeaverBuster is a brain dead system, that pops up a message if you stop moving.

thats it.

easy to counter if your toxic, just sit at base, mute the sounds and click around the fountain.

and if you are actually DC'ed its not like you can do anything about it, so whats the point of popping up a message?

scrap the system for something that actually works.

VolksFeb 9, 20164 votes

A safe to leave would be awesome that would be great!

Remlap1223Feb 9, 20169 votes

Yeah and people will stop brigading against every thread I make. Two things that will never happen.

Edit: to the idiots downvoting my comments, you're only proving my point.

Hello I am BirdFeb 9, 20162 votes

Then why did you even make a thread about it ._.

I'm not trying to "brigade" against your thread, it just seems arbitrary to make this thread if you yourself know it will never happen.

BeldairFeb 9, 20163 votes

I hate the LeaverBuster. I'm having to wait 20 minutes for 4 games just to even que for a match all because i went afk one match (had to leave to take care of a baby) and apparently got reported in another match all because i didn't move for about 5 minutes (got a call from work which was more important than league). The LeagueBuster needs work...there needs to be options where you can safely leave a match if something unexpected comes up.

Or ppl just need to cool it with the reports when the person actually explains why they went afk when they come back to the match.

BaculusFeb 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I hate the LeaverBuster. I'm having to wait 20 minutes for 4 games just to even que for a match all because i went afk one match (had to leave to take care of a baby) and apparently got reported in another match all because i didn't move for about 5 minutes (got a call from work which was more important than league). The LeagueBuster needs work...there needs to be options where you can safely leave a match if something unexpected comes up.

Or ppl just need to cool it with the reports when the person actually explains why they went afk when they come back to the match.

Working as intended. :D

BeldairFeb 9, 20164 votes

But see the thing is, the one match...i was still in the match just had periods where i had to stop and answer my phone.

Life and Work are way more important than this GAME.

Eclipse1337Feb 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

But see the thing is, the one match...i was still in the match just had periods where i had to stop and answer my phone.

Life and Work are way more important than this GAME.

Then don't play it. Huh, that was an easy fix!

BeldairFeb 9, 20164 votes

I actually like League but 2 reports and an automatic 5 game 20 minute each wait where my bro got nothing is a broken system. 2 reports and you automatically get the 20 minute leavebuster for 5 games? I could understand if it was more reports, but 2...

BaculusFeb 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But see the thing is, the one match...i was still in the match just had periods where i had to stop and answer my phone.

Life and Work are way more important than this GAME.

And if you're not responsible enough to manage life and work then you probably shouldn't be playing this GAME. Your inability to keep things in check ruined the time nine other people set aside from THEIR life and work. Someone would have to be pretty selfish to try to justify that.

BeldairFeb 10, 20161 votes

How are you supposed to manage a baby that unexpectedly wakes up or a random call from Work?

Someone would have to be pretty stupid to try to tell someone to manage a baby and a job calling out of the blue.

BaculusFeb 10, 20164 votes

{quoted}

How are you supposed to manage a baby that unexpectedly wakes up or a random call from Work?

Someone would have to be pretty stupid to try to tell someone to manage a baby and a job calling out of the blue.

If you get SO many that you're leaverbusted (which takes multiple times of being AFK, not two like you claim), then you shouldn't be playing LoL when they could happen. It's simple, I'm not sure why you have trouble understanding that other LoL players don't care about your kid or work. If you leave enough to get leaverbuster, we don't want you as part of the player pool.

Do you know the last time I played a real match of LoL? Two weeks ago. With the ones before that being a week or two apart. Why? Because I'm an adult and know, right now in life, I'm liable to be interupted or pulled away because of commitments. So, get this...

I just play other games instead of whining about how I have a god-given right of wasting 9 other people's time.

Like you are.

My Name DaveFeb 10, 20163 votes

i think you should be able to ff 5 minutes earlier for each afk on your team.

OksanaandjoyFeb 9, 20162 votes

Fix the cause not the symptom. We need to work on stopping people leaving game.

Carrots and sticks....

MyrmironFeb 9, 20167 votes

[deleted]

OksanaandjoyFeb 9, 20162 votes

**Edit: This post was in response to comment by another player that used sexual violence as a metaphor to highlight an aspect of online gaming. Riot has subsequently deleted the post, presumably because of its offensive nature.

Wow. So in following your analogy, it is ok to commit a crime, in this case rape, if somebody else has already done so?

Research suggests that providing targeted education programs encourages significant change in attitudes and intent. One study demonstrated that an intensive rape education program suggested comprehensive attitude change compared to a control group. Further, those who participated in the education program also demonstrated more positive behaviours and attitudes when dealing with scenarios involving sexual conflict and that a follow up study two years later showed the students who participated in the education program were less accepting of rape myths suggesting longer term attitude change. Another study demonstrated that young adult males who attended a rape prevention program showed significant decline in rape myth acceptance and behavioural intent to rape compared to a control group. Though, you generically refer to a group of rapists, I cannot be sure to what extent they have experienced targeted education programs. I also could not find a study that found a study that demonstrated repeating the crime already committed by someone else enacted positive change in the initial behaviour but I encourage you to research this. Perhaps of greater interest would be research into education programs aimed at changing player behaviour in online games. I suspect there has been limited research into this field and so might be an area for you to research.

Further, though the use of analogy and metaphor can be useful to highlight parallels between concepts, I'm not sure employing a sexual crime as an analogy for behaviour in online games is appropriate or useful.

Finally, regarding my initial point, the community would benefit more from seeing players leave games less frequently than it would from a limitation on the subsequent punishment of players experiencing negative behaviour. Remove the former and you no longer require the latter.

MyrmironFeb 9, 20166 votes

I'm just gonna ignore how hard you cried about using rape as a metaphor and tell you the following: There will ALWAYS be people who either HAVE to leave, or have no other choice BUT to leave during online games. That's why Riot doesn't permaban you for leaving. Stuff happens that prevents you from playing the game. And the people that leave are perfectly aware that leaving the game will have a negative impact on the other 4 players on their team. They just either don't care (rape metaphor), or they cannot help it (power/internet suddenly dies). These are the reason why allowing people to leave games and not having to wait until 20 minutes are over in case someone left before them and haven't reconnected for a considerable amount of time, could have a positive impact on the community and possibly even lower the toxicity of it. Also:

Wow. So in following your analogy, it is ok to commit a crime, in this case rape, if somebody else has already done so?

What the hell is wrong with you?

OksanaandjoyFeb 9, 20162 votes

To return to the original context, this thread doesn't address the legitimacy of leaving a game, but the potential solution of limiting further punishment to players who choose to leave a game after an infraction has been committed by a team mate. The game already addresses this issue through the implementation of a surrender system. If the team feels the game has come to an end, then they can collectively agree to leave. Act outside of this and an individual is also in violation of their agreement to play the game.

The research I provided along with extending your own analogy was to simply show just how imprecise this technique can be. I would suggest it is safest not to use crime, sexual or otherwise, as a point of comparison for this reason.

As an aside, I had a quick look at research into player behaviour in online gaming and there doesn't seem to be a lot out there. This article discusses sense of community though it's application to League of Legends is probably fairly limited. I do wonder if a greater sense of community, that is relationship building, would encourage players to better deal with this issue. This could be area worth your time.

MyrmironFeb 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I do wonder if a greater sense of community, that is relationship building, would encourage players to better deal with this issue. This could be area worth your time.

Nah, this won't happen. It's in people's nature to blame others for their mistakes. The reason is a self centered world view where oneself is the main character and everyone else are just extras. If the extras don't act to the main characters expectation, the main character usually looks for new extras. In league of legends, this isn't possible since leaverbuster punishes you for leaving and looking for new extras. As long as people follow this self-centered world view, a true sense of community can only be accomplished by eliminating all chances of extras underperforming, which isn't possible in a team based game. Helping the main character understand the extras motivations and actions better could help here, but without voicechat this, too, is impossible. The last alternative here would be to change every main characters world view. While this is theoretically possible it's very close to impossible.

I don't remember anymore where I was going with this. But you can be sure it was some bad-ass argument. Also there's a word for noticing people around you as their own main characters and not just as shallow extras. Sonder(This is what the league community lacks).

OksanaandjoyFeb 10, 20162 votes

Thanks for the reply. You have asserted a new analogy, one that seems much more fitting to context. In clarification, is the main character the champs themselves or the players playing the champs? I wasn't aware there was one main character on the team. My understanding was that there are 5 equal players each with a specific role to fulfil. Can you clarify this?

Also, did you get a chance to read the study on sense of community I linked? The assertions here are quite different to the ones you are making. Can you link me research that supports you ideas? This is becoming increasingly interesting; perhaps we have inadvertently hit upon a concept that is missing from League here.

Finally, that's an interesting word you have bought up though one that i'm not sure is seeing popular use yet; altruism or selflessness is probably more widely understood. But in principle we seem to agree that a greater awareness of ones actions and their impact on on others in the community would do much to limit the negative experience members are experiencing.

SocodemonFeb 10, 20162 votes

Wow, I think the sociopsycho mechanics are different between rape and leaving an internet game.

...just kinda throwin that out there.

OksanaandjoyFeb 10, 20161 votes

Exactly.

SammystormFeb 9, 20162 votes

this isn't a good solution. People do leave for legit reasons.

OksanaandjoyFeb 9, 20162 votes

Perhaps. Discussing this issue in such general terms will always be prone to error and defining the multitude of cases that are legitimate or otherwise is cumbersome. I wonder whether people who leave were genuinely available for the full hour it takes to play the game.

Serika ZeroFeb 9, 20162 votes

And that's why, playing MMORPGs is better than playing Mobas. If you end up leaving the game or afk, nobody loses their pepperonis over it

MasterVidallisFeb 9, 20162 votes

Join a raiding guild and then leave in the middle of the game and see what happens.

Praetorian002Feb 9, 20162 votes

This has been an issue for years. Riot does not care, has never cared, and will not be changing this any time soon. Even before LeaverBuster, people were complaining about this.