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Before you claim Morde ADC has a 65% win rate on Champion.gg, please read this.

MealReadytoEat··20 votes·3,162 views

Champion.gg states his win rate as ADC is just under 65%, but look closely at his % play rate by position - 43.44% ADC and 17.39% Top - only 60.83% games he plays.

That other 40% of games are mostly one's he is the ADC, but performs so poorly he has so few items that Champion.gg doesn't know how to classify him

(edit - it's Riot's API that is assigning these lanes, in part by time spent by location in the game, but clearly by other things as well so as to distinguish between the support and ADC [would like to see a Rioter clarify this], not champion.gg - 40% of his games are still unassigned, so the points still stand.) .

A quick look at lolking here shows that his win rate overall in ranked has been 49-51.5% the past week. Looking at plat elo's like champion.gg is on that graph tells you pretty much the same story as ranked overall, and I can promise you people there know ADC is his only strong role and are picking accordingly.

(Edit 2 - For the record, I think Mordekaiser ADC IS overpowered and some nerfs and power shifting would make him healthier, but he's not game breaking like a 65% win rate would be. This post was about properly interpreting statistics, not his balance.)

(Edit 3 - Thanks RiotJules for confirming on my Reddit post that this is whats going on)

35 Comments

VDc0zCqe0w4 votes

champion.gg doesn't classify the role by items but by time spent in X lane, wich is the reason you don't see Ashe solotop because she never ever goes there

i've asked the dude who made the site

and if what you said was true then MF shouldn't even be listed LOL

MealReadytoEat3 votes

Good to know, but I'm pretty sure Morde picks adc WAY more than 40% of the time (Champion.gg only looks are plat+ ranked games, people there know its his only good spot), but its dropping 40% of the games, which are disproportionately when he is doing poorly, hence the inflated statistic.

Sightless661 votes

It uses both. The Riot API determines it not just by time spent in lane, but by what items the character has in lane. That's part of how it differentiates supports from AD carries. Morde doesn't fit the traditional pattern of itemization (he actually starts with a support item a lot of the time), so it isn't well-equipped to classify his role.

Rioters pointed out on the reddit thread that he's being played bot lane way more than 40% of the time, and he is winning less than 65% of the time down there.

CEO of Aspergers4 votes

[deleted]

MealReadytoEat5 votes

He picks adc WAY more than 40% of the time (Champion.gg only looks are plat+ ranked games, people there know its his only good spot), but its dropping 40% of the games, which are disproportionately when he is doing poorly, hence the inflated statistic.

Raid Boss Morde3 votes

You... again... I see you everywhere now. PBE... Reddit... now Boards. Hope a Rioter comments on this one too!

MealReadytoEat3 votes

I actually posted this first - I managed to get it preemptively here, but when I went on reddit people were already using that BS stat so I posted it there. Anyway, there's at least three Rioters who commented on the Reddit Post, including Phreak. No puns of damage yet, I'm afraid.

Abyssphere2 votes

But his lolking win rate is dragged down by how terribly he's doing in every other role - that's why it's been continuously rising as more and more people migrated to ADC with him. He's doing moderately well overall because he has one ridiculously strong role and two terrible ones (and people still seem ridiculously eager to play him jungle).

MealReadytoEat4 votes

He's pretty much only in the ADC role - look, champion.gg is simply removing the 40% of his games he does poorly. You can look at his win rate in higher elo's with the graph I gave you, I promise there's pretty much only ADC Morde's there, and he's performing slightly better there, but not by much.

WarlockLaw3 votes

The remaining 40% are probably an insignificant amount of games played as support, mid and jg as well as a few afks and games where he did so poorly they couldn't classify. Adc morde is pretty strong right now it's just every time somebody plays him elsewhere he does poorly and drags down the rest of his overall win rate. I doubt champ.gg is inaccurate about how strong morde is.

Also item builds aren't the only thing used to determine role for champ.gg I'm pretty sure they have some type of software that checks cs and time spent in what parts of the map as morde has basically the same build everywhere

MealReadytoEat2 votes

Champion.gg labeled support and mid lane morde just fine when people were trying it out last patch - no, hats not it. Trust me, ADC Morde is WAY more than 43% of the games Morde is seeing in plat ranked this patch.

WarlockLaw2 votes

Yeah they labeled them, back when all of them were 20% +/- 3% in the play rates. Now they have dropped in frequency and champ.gg no longer considers them of a significant amount to report on them anymore. Trust me, morde is way overtuned as an adc replacement. Whether or not he has a 65% win rate is debatable but he is strong

Meep Man2 votes

I'm confused. Champion.gg says he has a 65% win rate in ADC, which is the role he picks 40% of the time. Am I missing something?

MealReadytoEat8 votes

He picks it WAY more than 40% of the time (Champion.gg only looks are plat+ ranked games, people there know its his only good spot), but its dropping 40% of the games, which are disproportionately when he is doing poorly, hence the inflated statistic.

MealReadytoEat2 votes

Everyone, please go to my reddit post about this, here! Riot Jules Confirmed this is whats going on in the comments.

Dr Poro2 votes

I still wouldn't take his word for granted. I believe that part of those games might have been poorly classified ADC games, but saying that 40% of his ADC games are left out is just exaggeration.

There was a Rioter who said that they liked the position Jinx was in, but a few days later, there appeared Jinx nerfs on the PBE. Rioters are just people who work there. Most of them, who aren't involved in game balance, know just as much about you and me about this stuff. I trust that Riot Jules knows what he's talking about, just like the Rioter about Jinx gave the opinion of Riot at that moment, but they aren't always correct.

What I'm saying is: this is no excuse for his insane winrate and even when correctly assigned, his winrate will be way too high.

May I also mention that those games where they couldn't assign him were probably games where the players played in such weird way that probably lowers their winrate aswell. The current winrate is probably based on Morderkaisers who played correctly.

Meep Man2 votes

{quoted}

Everyone, please go to my reddit post about this, here! Riot Jules Confirmed this is whats going on in the comments.

You need to get better at explaning these things sheesh.

The reason Mordekaiser ADC has such a high win rate is because the system they are using is inaccuratly labeling Mordekaiser ADC due to his strange builds. Some of the ADC Mordekaiser games are being dropped due to him picking up some very different than ADC itemization.

Dr Poro1 votes

No, in the previous patch there was also Mordekaiser Mid and Mordekaiser support with about 20% and 10% of the games respectively. I'm sure people are also playing Mordekaiser jungle (which Riot mentioned they're buffing next patch, so they want it to be a thing).

They probably removed it from the list because the performance there was so bad, you might aswell add twitch jungle. (Performance being a mix of popularity, winrate and other stuff)

ZephyrDrake1 votes

oh look someone who is looking for excuses for his freelo champ to not be nerfed

Dreadlocks1 votes

They use to have a graph etc for Support Morde.. idk where that 1 went.

brad1 votes

yeah i dont trust champion.gg at all when it comes to anything really

lolking is so much better and has been around for so much longer

Summonerrr 11 votes

For a statistic to be valid, you can't exclude a subset of data that the statistic is derived from. If Quinn 's top OR ADC games were her "winrate" and not both, she'd likely have a very different winrate than she does now.

Ergo, If you want to call it "winrate" but exclude lanes/roles simply because they're inconvenient or difficult to include, guess what? You're intentionally misleading people by not adding "bot-lane" or "ADC" to your title. Call it what it is, don't try to twist facts to your favor.

Yea, about 13 out of 20 games I see a Mordekaiser ADC in that guy's team wins, but Mordekaiser's games aren't all Mordekaiser ADC's are they? Only about every 7 out of 20 games where I see a Mordekaiser in any role other than ADC he ends up winning, so I'd say calling mord's overall winrate, aka winrate as every stat tracker site ever out there says, 65% is outright BS.

((7/20)+(13/20))/2 = 10/20, not 13/20 .

Laustin Space1 votes

Real talk tho every time I've faced the new Mordekaiser in the top lane I've completely dumpstered him in lane then once the mid game rolls around after he afk farms under tower for a bit or retreats to his jungle for farm he comes back and I literally cant go near him because he will obliterate me with 3 auto's... >_> I find it absurdly silly that someone who is fed wouldn't stand a chance against someone who did the feeding. Sort of how it feels being against Garen right now whenever you are doing well and have the villain bs on you.

Zhugan1 votes

You say we can't use that info, but if you sort for solo-q on lolking, and then look at plat/diamond/master his pick rate stays pretty consistent, and his win rate escalates into the low 60% range in master from the low/mid 50% range in plat. While EVERY OTHER JUGGERNAUT is doing the exact opposite.

Garen's win rate goes down as rating goes up. Darius's win rate goes down as rating goes up. Even Skarner's win rate goes down. MORDEKAISER'S GOES UP.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that is a pretty sinister sign for how powerful Mordekaiser really is when the best players are that good on him, and is a terrifying sign for how strong he'll be when the less experienced and skilled players finally really figure Mordekaiser out.

He needs nerfed. He needs his knees taken out, and Riot is buffing him on the PBE because for some reason they really want to see Mordekaiser 100% pick/ban at Worlds for literally any lane in the game.

MealReadytoEat2 votes

They aren't buffing him, they are nerfing his duo-lane. He still isn't seeing any 5's pro play yet, either picks or bans

Zhugan1 votes

Pro level 5's play is currently on 5.14 and 5.15, neither of which have the Mordekaiser rework on them, but nice try.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

There was just 9 LPL games on 5.16, no picks or bans of morde.

Zhugan1 votes

9 games is your entire argument for Morde not being viable in pro play? Really? That is a weak argument if I ever heard one.

Morde will be picked at worlds. Morde will do well at worlds. Morde will be nerfed hard after worlds. I'll eat a sock if that doesn't happen.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

I wasn't really making an argument around Morde, just stating that he's not seeing pro play yet, and he's receiving some pretty significant nerfs in 5.18, so I don't expect him to be particularly popular in worlds, although I'd love to see him played some.

Also, every sight is giving widely varied statistics on Morde right now, at least in part due to difficulties with the API classifying him.

Zhugan1 votes

Its an overall buff in 5.18. He'll still be able to go bot, but not be completely wrecked if his support isn't right with him, AND he'll regain his ability to instant push a wave while sitting with a huge shield in top and mid all while now having the ability to heal himself off minions without ever needing to build spell vamp or lifesteal.

And lolking doesn't care how champions are classified in the overall stat trackers for champions. Which means that at the highest tiers of Solo-Q Mordekaiser has a ~65% win rate. And that is just stupid.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

His DoT doesn't work in solo, just the heal, which is alot weaker on PBE (heals you 35 hp against minions but cost 25 hp, woo, 10 hp every 12 seconds) and the DoT is roughly halved as you cant overlap it anymore. His q now cost considerably more HP as well. His w also gives variable MS, depending on how directly you are running towards your ally. He's a lot weaker, really in every lane but jungle on PBE.

And, like i said, that 65% win rate statistic is BS, as Phreak, a couple other Rioters, and a Champion.gg Dev all confirmed.

Zhugan1 votes

  1. The single magic damage will hit enemies, which means that they do take damage other than the bonus damage for standing by your support. I don't know what patch notes you read, but clearly you didn't read them well.

  2. The heal scales with 10% of ap and scales more per level than the self damage does. Not to mention that if you hit an enemy champion in a trade you heal for roughly double the damage you deal to yourself totally separate from any scaling.

  3. You can overlap it. READ THE PBE PATCH NOTES. It isn't as big a bonus as it was before, but with the utility of being able to self cast it and benefit from the single person damage seems worth it.

  4. The 65% winrate in master+ from lolking DOESN'T CARE WHAT ROLE MORDE PLAYS. It is just measuring his aggregate wins over a period of time for a specific champion. I'm not using champion.gg because I know that its messed up, but lolking ISN'T CHAMPION.GG. I don't usually ask something like this, but seriously... did you do badly on reading comprehension tests as a child?

MealReadytoEat1 votes

  1. I've played him, I know how it works. Yes the ending heal still works in solo, and double applies with a ally, but the PB DoT doesn't do either of those.

  2. Yes, the heal scales pretty well by level, but so does the HP cost, its a 10 to 40 net heal vs minions; 10 at level 1, 40 at level 5. Solo laning Morde won't max it first; he'd lose all his damage.

  3. Refer to 1

  4. His win rate in master is all over the place on lolking, due to the small sample size. It averages quite highly over the past week, around 57.4%, not 65%. If you can't read the site, you really shouldn't insult me about it.

Nekusen1 votes

can't it tell by the summoner spells ?

Dar Raksada1 votes

{quoted}

can't it tell by the summoner spells ?

Doubt it, Barrier/flash, heal/flash, ignite/flash are all fairly common midlane combinations, even exhaust/flash sees play mid. How would you seperate them from adcs/supports?

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