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A simple "Buff" changed Veigar's play style for the worse

SwapShadows··37 votes·1,915 views

The DFG removal wasn't the worst thing to happen, but it definitely hurt Veigar and made his mid game slightly weaker and require a bit more poking to nuke someone. As compensation you completely changed his kit, you changed him into a "you have to farm minions and that's it, don't even think about harassing or poking because you can't land your stun and your opponent can no longer be hit with your Q or W"

I may sound salty but what is the point of this rework?? Veigar now technically has only 3 spells because there is no way in hell you are landing a stun that everyone from insanely low elo to high elo can predict and dodge.

Veigar was all about early poke and farming when he was being zoned or by himself in a lane then finding the opportunity to catch his opponent and quickly burst them. Now he is forced to farm and become a boring stale champion, literally the funnest part about veigar was powering up and being able to finally catch someone out, now that is no longer a possibility and you must farm for 30 minutes to become relevant because your only spells you can land are Q (rarely) and R.

I'm beyond upset over this because you are changing a playstyle that you have no idea about and you are calling it a "buff". Praying that Riot team has a Veigar main that will teach them a thing or two.

Please all Veigar mains or anyone in general, support this thread and make them change his kit back to the way it was.

29 Comments

CupcakeTrap17 votes

I wrote a related thread.

I feel that Riot is defining "counterplay" much too narrowly, with an overemphasis on twitch-reflex skillshot-dodging. That's definitely an important ingredient of LoL, don't get me wrong. However, it's just one ingredient.

The real problem is the change to the stun. That's a massive, massive nerf. I don't really enjoy having to hit people with the edge. But they didn't make it do something more interesting or cage-like: they just made it always "miss". That's just a straight nerf. There were so many interesting things they could have done with his stun; I'm really disappointed that they just straight-up nerfed it. (I can't even pretend that half a Teemo of extra range matters at all compared with the loss of the ability to actually stun people.)

All that said, I'm even more glad that they didn't completely rework him. That would have been a real tragedy. I guess I'd rather have him nerfed than erased and replaced with a new Champion with the same name.

Raptamei3 votes

{quoted}

I wrote a related thread.

I feel that Riot is defining "counterplay" much too narrowly, with an overemphasis on twitch-reflex skillshot-dodging. That's definitely an important ingredient of LoL, don't get me wrong. However, it's just one ingredient.

It's the only counterplay that looks good on e-sports streams though.

CupcakeTrap2 votes

{quoted}

It's the only counterplay that looks good on e-sports streams though.

I hear what you're saying, but let me push back on that a little. In "real" sports, a lot of time is spent talking about big-picture strategy and the subtler psychological game going on. It's interesting. I think that multiple layers of competition help give LoL its richness, as a game or as a spectator sport.

Raptamei1 votes

{quoted}

I hear what you're saying, but let me push back on that a little. In "real" sports, a lot of time is spent talking about big-picture strategy and the subtler psychological game going on. It's interesting. I think that multiple layers of competition help give LoL its richness, as a game or as a spectator sport.

Yes, it works fine in Dota - if you know a bit about Dota, otherwise it's sleep inducing. Riot wants to see action.

KaelTheGreat2 votes

All that said, I'm even more glad that they didn't completely rework him. That would have been a real tragedy. I guess I'd rather have him nerfed than erased and replaced with a new Champion with the same name.

OMG Yes, thank God they didn't pull a Karma and delete the champ and make a new one with the same name. I would hate for an amazing and fun champ the be murdered like Karma was...

RIP Karma 2/1/11-4/13/13

NotDevan12 votes

I hope they "buff" Katarina next.

SwapShadows8 votes

They might make her Shunpo have a 1 second delay.

Thryale1 votes

didn't you see those kat changes that hit pbe a while back? they were gonna turn kat into an ad bruiser.

DrCyanide8 votes

Only has 3 spells? What's the third, because I can only count two. Q, which was changed but should still be usable, and R, which remains roughly the same.

E won't stun, and without the stun W won't connect.

I just want to counterplay mobility....

SwapShadows2 votes

well your W can atleast clear minions.

So technically yea, he only has 2 abilities against champions.

Praetor Don4 votes

Unfortunately, meddler stated the veiger changes are locked :/

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/6AclnukN-azir-38-win-rate?comment=000800010000

Second Riot comment.

SwapShadows9 votes

Their balance team is so dense its laughable.

They really need to play this game so they can rework champions without taking their identity/nerfing them to the ground.

Thryale2 votes

no need to be so blunt about it.

that said, I don't think I've every had a problem playing against a veigar. In fact, I giggle to myself when I see someone pick veig cuz he's so easy to play against. And I've been maining veig for a while now.

If I see a zed, lb, or or yas mid (as any mid laner, not just veig) I groan to myself knowing that I'm in for a really hard game. But when I see a veig mid, I'm happy, cuz I know that if my other lanes don't get crushed, I'm in for an easy match.

And now riot just made it even easier to lane against veig. :/

Thryale1 votes

makes you wonder why they even bothered to put it on pbe if they won't even listen to community feedback. It's not like they were actually testing anything.

Trídent3 votes

There's been so many threads about this.... Riot's bound to listen and revert the changes... If not item 3070

SwapShadows5 votes

Tear stacks max'dVeigar item 3070

SwapShadows2 votes

Fix veigar senpai

SwapShadows2 votes

lets get this noticed

Kazaashi2 votes

It is sooooo fun to lane against a Veigar. I can shut him down in lane, but one good stun later, he can 100-0 pretty much anyyone on your team by flash+hiting QWER at the same time.

Oh yea, tons of counterplay in his current form.

SwapShadows1 votes

The current veigar cannot do that as well as before, without DFG he is required to poke more.

It's like if Leblanc brings you to 20%, do you stay in lane or recall?

Curling Veigar1 votes

I can't say anything about it until I play for myself. Sure the E delay seems like it'd kill him, but on the other hand, stacking AP and poking with his Q seems fun as it already does a lot of damage.

SwapShadows2 votes

It's not about the damage, his playstyle is completely ruined and changed, he literally only has 2 spells now.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Here's the thing... Veigar was strong laning phase and late game. It can't be both, in Riot's opinion (and most of the community).

A champion who can easily blow up tanks late game SHOULD be weak and have to farm up. It was one or the other. Not both. You can disagree if you like, but that's how their philosophy has worked for champion balance for awhile.

SwapShadows2 votes

Veigar cannot instakill a tank with MR late game, have you ever tried all outing a full tank malphite late game?? the most you will do is 50% and that's if you're lucky.

Also veigars laning phase is really bad if they are mobile and with his high mana costs too

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

He killed tanks on my team all the time. Granted, that was with DFG still in the game. That's why I used past tense.

And yes, that's my point. His laning phase is bad because they want him to have lots of damage in the late game. He may not be able to instagib tanks anymore (good), but he can burst carries just fine. With the cc he brings, that's a pretty strong late game. His laning should be comparably weak.

Are you suggesting that these changes are changing his late game threat? Or do you think he deserves both a strong lane and great late game? In that case, what's his weakness?

Minrog1 votes

It wasn't ever going to be a buff. Just like the Taric remake isn't going to be a buff. Any champion that can lock down Zed/Lee Sin/Kalista is going to be destroyed. They will call it a rework or a buff or whatever, but you should have known that's not what would happen.

Keep a lookout for these other champions to be "buffed" as well:

Pantheon Annie Vi Maokai Irelia Warwick Malzahar Ryze Urgot

May have forgotten one, but yeah Veigar/Sion/Taric were just the start of this.

SwapShadows1 votes

tru

Nielarken1 votes

they already have their sights on annie R.I.P

Marinaras Trench1 votes

On pbe, I have used his E as more of a zoning spell then as a utility spell. Its not really that hard to hit and to be honest, although he is slightly weaker he is still playable. So please play him before crying about how weak it is going to play. REWORKED AHRI IS SO WEAK -forums

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