Veigar tries to get Riot to make him a new Event Horizon

CupcakeTrap··72 votes·6,068 views

Veigar Yes! It must TRAP my enemies! So that they can hear the ominous whistling of the meteor of dark matter as it falls from the heavens to destroy them, frozen helplessly below its swelling shadow of doom! Ziggs Can't be done, mate. It's down to Health & Safety. Veigar Heehee. Hee. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! Veigar Forgive my levity. But as you come to know me better, you will find that neither "health" nor "safety" are among my primary concerns! Ziggs What you need is a .75s warning delay, with a brightly colored particle warning people to get out of the way. And a voiceover saying, "Warning: Dark Matter will land in 1.25s, stand clear; Veigar may be attempting to burst you." Veigar I begin to find you tiresome, Mr. Meddler. Ziggs Hey, don't get personal with me, mate. You're the one who isn't playing Zed.


This is mostly just meant in jest, but I suppose there's a shred of real critique in here as well. It seems that Riot is obsessed with mobility and twitch-reflexes as the most legitimate form of "counterplay", to the detriment of LoL's other layers of strategy and adaptive gameplay. When Veigar drops the stun and obliterates you, it's the culmination of a whole sequence of back-and-forth gameplay that goes back to lanephase. (Why is Veigar fed enough to do that? Why did you go glass canon against him? Why, having chosen the risky glass cannon path, have you let yourself be caught out of position? Where is your front line? Why didn't someone pounce on Veigar to destroy him before he could finish his rotation? Is anyone going to follow-through and counter, to make Veigar pay for killing you with his own life? If not, is your team going to take the opportunity to hard-engage while his stun is down?) It's honestly insulting to say that Veigar players (prior to the changes) were just pushing a button to get free gold, and didn't have to use any skill to get those wins. No, there was no final quicktime event button-mash opportunity for the target to zip out of the way of the burst. But to say that this meant there was no counterplay reflects, I feel, a certain myopia in Riot's design philosophy. Really, it's just…shortsighted.

Veigar :\

Really, it's so shortsighted.

Veigar DIE.

…?

Ziggs Greetings, Summoner! Veigar is trying to burst you. His stun will appear in .75s. You're standing right on it! So, let's talk strategy and counterplay. Are you going to go with the traditional option of getting stunned, or will you try a bold new strategy like clicking literally anywhere to not get stunned?

Uh, I think I'll go with that second thing.

Ziggs Well, Veigar, looks like your opponent has chosen not to get stunned. That seems like a popular strategy. Veigar Yes, it does. Ziggs This is the kind of exciting decisionmaking that we think separates the good Summoners from the Summoners who need to change the batteries in their mouse. Lulu Here, go ahead! Stun me! I won't move. Promise. :3 Veigar Wh-what? Who wants to stun YOU? Lulu? If that's you. I don't know! Are you a new Champion or something? I don't even know who you are! BEGONE! Ziggs Okay, Veigar: the gnawing pain of loneliness will hit in about .75s. So what's your move? Ziggs Counterplay!

20 Comments

Direwolfiez27 votes

I love you, Cupcake Trap. You consistently make me laugh like an idiot, all while using satire to point out things you disagree with. +1.

CupcakeTrap32 votes

{quoted}

I love you, Cupcake Trap. You consistently make me laugh like an idiot, all while using satire to point out things you disagree with. +1.

Haha, thanks. I'm mostly just going for laughs here. But yes, I do disagree with the Veigar changes. I'm not at all against getting rid of the instant stun, but come on, fellas, you've got to replace it with something. And when I see that the other part of this plan to "compensate" Veigar for the loss of DFG's bursting power was to nerf his ult damage…I really can't tell if Riot's just trying to punk us, or if they've been issued a most sadistic and perverse copy of the dictionary.

Ziggs Yeah, I had a rough time in school. This one time, two guys held my arms while another guy kicked me in the crotch. Zed Whoa, man, that's pretty messed up, and I'm an amoral shadow ninja assassin. Ziggs I know. I got compensated for it, though; after they were done kicking me in the crotch, they took my lunch money and pulled my shirt over my head. Zed Uh. Meddler. Can you tell me what you think the word "compensate" means? Ziggs Hahahaha, Zed, you're such a nerd. Zed No, seriously. Can you? Ziggs Well, I can use it in a sentence. "We thought Evelynn's burst was too high, so we compensated her by removing her stun." Fiora You keep using zat word. I do not think zat it means what you zeenk it mea— Ziggs Hey, guys, get Fiora some more compensation. Fiora :| Ziggs Have Narrative compensate her lore, too. While you're at it. Fiora Zees is an outrage! I will not stand for such—

Fiora, the Grand Duelist, is a duelist whose amazing dueling prowess has won her great fame. She wields a dueling sword which gives her even greater dueling power, but some say it is connected to a dark past. Perhaps it is that past she flees as she wanders Valoran on a quest of vengeance.

She could be from Demacia, if that's still a thing that exists, and it might! Except that might be in a separate universe, because now that we've separated lore from gameplay, we want to separate lore from other lore, to really take it to the next level as we iterate further on this new approach to disrupt traditional lore methodologies in an iterative, forward-moving way. We're really excited! Oh, is this still Fiora's lore? She's a duelist, and she's really good at dueling. Super excited to show you what we have in store for her next!

…

FIORA: Induelification Fiora drew her sword and prepared to fight the duel. She was an excellent duelist, a Grand Duelist, and when her opponent tried to stab her, she stabbed her opponent instead. In so doing, she won the duel.

"No! How could you have struck me?" he croaked, falling to his knees. "I thought I would defeat you in this duel...but it is you who have outdueled me!"

"I have no equal!" Fiora snarled, and she did not. This duelist she had slain was indeed a skillful duelist, but she was the Grand Duelist. She had earned this title by fighting many duels, and winning them.

She looked at her dying opponent. She sensed his empathy, because of their shared pain of losing duels. She lost a duel once. However, she did not die. In that respect, she was not well equipped to empathize with this person, who was now dying because he had lost a duel against her.

"Fiora, you have won yet another duel!" The dueling referee said. "But is this the end of your quest for vengeance?"

She looked into the distance, as blood dripped from her sword.

"…no."

"That was very dramatic," the referee said, "how you put that on another line."

"Yes," she said, still gazing toward the horizon.

"It was."

(Insert millions of dollars of extravagant multimedia that makes CupcakeTrap cry while using Paint.NET to make some logos for Factions pages.)


The preceding is a work of satire. I actually like lots of the new lore. I have a few gripes, and I'm hamming them up for comedic purposes, but this is not meant to be a serious argument. I rather despise those who use strawman hyperbole to mock their adversaries, and then claim this indulgent mockery as some kind of logical refutation. It's barely one step above "oh yeah, well this is you, 'DURR DURR I'M STUPID DURRRR'!" I really don't like people who do that. I have long wandered Earth on a quest for vengeance against them.

libraryseraph 8 votes

...marry me?

KING OF MASKS7 votes

You're clearly off the mark with how lore compensation works. Putting in way too much effort. Here, I'll show you how it's done:

highlight all of her existing lore delete "Fiora is a duelist. She duels. That's what she does."

Aaaaand that's a wrap!

Direwolfiez4 votes

You forgot to shoehorn in some random connections to other champs that literally make no sense now that the old lore was retconned.

S P I Y R2 votes

Oh my goodness your stories make me laugh so hard, made my day Cupcake, thanks :3

CupcakeTrap1 votes

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Oh my goodness your stories make me laugh so hard, made my day Cupcake, thanks :3

Awww. Thank you!

DrCyanide14 votes

Love the clip.

Unfortunately, Veigar's new kit is "hope your opponent messes up, because you can only land two skills with talent".

Can you imagine if Zed had a 0.75 delay before he could use his shadow to do anything? That's not counterplay. I don't know the word, but it is a one sided version of counterplay where the person making the move almost has no control over it.

SephAgro10 votes

That was funny. Its heartening to see that the Veigar community is passionate. These changes don't seem to reflect any sort of reasonable design philosophy though. Riot knows that strategic counterplay was the vocation that Veigar dominated.

They're not hopelessly obtuse as some people believe. Companies can make decisions to improve the quality of their product or they can make decisions to generate more profit. To continue calling these nerfs, 'balance changes' - even bad ones - is just ignoring the elephant in the room. I really hate the LCS entertainment model. Riot should honestly just split the company into two. One acts solely as a sports association, and the other as a proper game developer.

B1naryB0t10 votes

I love that line, "This is the kind of exciting decisionmaking that we think separates the good Summoners from the Summoners who need to change the batteries in their mouse."

LANWhale6 votes

Veigar

1 MILLION NERFS!!!

Honestly how it feels with the whole stun thing.

RazorTS3 votes

you nailed it with the video, great find

TheKingDodo3 votes

So what OP is saying is ... all traps shouldn't have a delay and a warning sign?

Mikayle2 votes

{quoted}

So what OP is saying is ... all traps shouldn't have a delay and a warning sign?

This is actually a very interesting point.

I for one agree that Veigars Trap should be permanent like everyone elses as well until someone walks into it and triggers it.

10/10 best suggestion i've heard.

Curling Veigar2 votes

I don't think riot intended messing Veigar up. They just made a mistake which would easily be fixed by...

Reverting his ult nerf. Lowering impact delay of W. ect ect

Sasogwa2 votes

LMAO. This Video was awesome

MrSexyHobo1 votes

cough chogath cough velkoz

Overlord Etherea12 votes

{quoted}

cough chogath cough velkoz

Did you know chogath on his q has two types of cc? Knockup + Slow. ALSO, it hits the entire field. Veigar horizon only affects the borders. Vel works the same as chogath, his cc affects the entire aoe.

BrutusTheCat1 votes

I understand or frustration, I too miss the old tiny master of evil but Riot had to change his stun in this kind of manner because of his 100% pick/ban rate in the Korean and Chinese leagues. Anytime a champion is a must pick or ban Riot has to change them, it is just this time they are changes him because of issues players in the NA and EU can't see unless they watch the aforementioned leagues. The problem here is that Veigar's entire kit was balanced on the fine edge of his stun.

His stun is very hard to balance because of it's unique hitting area, and if they want a working Veigar I think we are looking at nothing short(not a joke) of a complete rework.

CarnivoreApple1 votes

I wholeheartedly agree with everything in your post :P I made a post about Veigar on the EUW forums, too. Let me know what you think. (a bit long so not worth posting as a comment) http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/mAhZ6n0s-regarding-veigar

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