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"We just can't find a way to tell stories with this whole League thing in the way." Well, WE did.

CupcakeTrap··104 votes·8,606 views

http://i.imgur.com/tRZz0Hq.jpg

Factions is a community game mode and lore initiative based on faction versus faction matches, such as Noxus versus Ionia. We take the results of these matches, which anyone can start anytime, and use them to determine where the story goes next.

Today, Riot declared that it was simply not possible for them to write stories with the League and Summoners in the way.

With all due respect, I must question the sincerity of their efforts to do so before giving up, because a bunch of random players did it in their free time.

Take a look: The Lore of Factions

Needless to say, given that Factions is all about the League and Summoners, we're not super happy about Riot's decision here. We'll deal. But seriously, what gives?

They say that they can't have a war or other conflict because of the League. I guess they just couldn't come up with a workaround. Meanwhile, over at Factions, it seemed pretty obvious to us: the League's mission is to prevent apocalypse, not ensure world peace. They don't ban all war, they just insist that the states involved do not escalate the conflict to world-explodey levels, and eventually they step in and say "enough is enough" before enforcing a treaty.

They also said that it was just too hard explaining why Champions would join the League. Okay. Jinx? You really have a hard time understanding why Jinx would want to join something that involved blowing things up all day and getting paid for it?

EDIT: As for Summoners, I'd like to add something further. I agree that omnipotent mind-controlling slavemasters are a creepy concept. That's not how I view Summoners, and it's not how they are in Factions. In Factions, Summoners are there to use their magic to help Champions out, while giving tactical advice and watching out for incoming attacks. I'm entertained by the idea of Summoners and Champions yelling at each other in the halls from time to time about "how could you miss that gank!?" or "you're the one who can't hit Alistar from 20 feet away, Mr. It's All Skill!" I think it's really important to give players a place in the story.

I'd like to hear Riot honestly try to make the case that it was just impossible to tell good stories with a setting that still left the game itself making some kind of in-universe sense.

101 Comments

CupcakeTrap31 votes

I've seen a couple different Rioters, defending against complaints from the playerbase, insisting that this is important because it allows them to drive the story forward in ways they couldn't before, like having Champions die for real.

Ooookay, narrative team. You have fun a few months from now explaining to Sona players that a Noxian agent just murdered her and now she's canonically dead.

But hey! You can still play her, in a fantasy reality where she's still alive.

dialMARK4acti0n2 votes

That... actually has worked... in a million games before it... Besides, haaaaaaaave you met, Karthus?

eztarg3t2 votes

A million games, eh? You shouldn't have problem then naming a couple. After all, there are a million success stories out there, right?

Mughi of Ruckus2 votes

The entire Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors series, for one. Sun Ce dies in every storyline but his own pretty early on in the game where he's first introduced. In Warcraft 3, "Dead" heroes were still used pretty often for skirmish modes. Come to think of it, most games with separate story and battle modes do the same thing. Gears of War 3, for example. People die, but they still get played a lot in horde mode. Borderlands is about to do a game almost entirely about people you've already killed in previous games. Also, hypothetically, if a Game of Thrones game were made, do you think players would shy away from their favorite dead characters? I personally doubt it.

All this having been said, I really don't want any champions to die. I like them too much. Well, except maybe Urgot. But it's okay. He'd come back anyway. Point is, it can work. I don't want it to happen, but that doesn't mean it can't work.

eztarg3t4 votes

I'll give you that Dynasty Warriors one. BTW, loved 7. I think it was the first one the developers actually decided to tell the tale of the 3 kingdoms from the character's perspective. I never really had a favorite region before 7 but after that I HATED Wu. Bunch of sniveling backstabbing cowards.

I'm still not comfortable with the concept of a champion actually dying. If they are going to put more lore into the game then I can tell people are going to be pissed if their favorite dies because if they die, no more lore for that guy. Yeah, you can still play them in the game but it won't feel the same.

God forbid they had champions pitted against each other and let the fans decide who lives. Just think about that, having WW and Soraka duke it out and the fans get to decide their fate. I know I would be salty to every single WW player if Soraka bit the dust and would probably just afk just to spite them if they were on my team.

333lom7 votes

I just love playing a game where my favourite Champion dies for real. But then again, their respawning makes perfect sense, despite the real dying. What has gotten into Riot

gubigubi9 votes

"Ooookay, narrative team. You have fun a few months from now explaining to Sona players that a Noxian agent just murdered her and now she's canonically dead."

Dear god that is awful. And depending how that charcter died that could be really lame... I hope they never kill off my favs :l! Fiora Leblanc Quinn Fiddlesticks Twitch

Xenohaz3 votes

You may or may not have just given them a hit list.

gubigubi2 votes

I really hope not Q-Q

KairosCrow6 votes

If they do this, or something like this, the current outcry over decanonization will look like small potatoes compared to the maelstrom of complaints that would follow. I hope Riot has the common sense to avoid that.

MEMEME6703 votes

Two things here.

1: This type of comment is the exact type of shit that keeps Rioters off the forums, because it says nothing useful at all, and is just mean for the sake of being mean. Sure, maybe you have some sort of justification, but I think if you look at your goals and how to reach them, posting in this fashion isn't part of that path.

2: It DOES allow them to drive the story forward.

First off, lets look at the champions who can LITERALLY NEVER have a storyline update while the IoW still exists.

Brand & Xerath & Cho'Gath are imprisoned indefinitely.

Nasus + Renekton & Morgana + Kayle & Rengar + Kha'Zix can't resolve their disputes with the IoW in place. (AND they can't come to a conclusion without drastically changing the character dynamic).

Ahri is supposed to eventually regain her humanity, but that ruins her character ingame.

Amumu's story is conveniently ended by the IoW, but it was never extremely deep anyway.

I don't want to go through every single champion, and I don't think I need to.

You get the point. The IoW as an institute shuts down a LOT of character development, plot points, and general storyline progression.

And I mean, it's not like there aren't other options. They could have made the IoW something that existed only in the past (Although I personally think that would be a bit weird), or something else. But they chose this, and it seems to be about as good of a decision as they can make, given they want to actually expand on characters' stories.

LeeDark3 votes

I can think of numerous ways to write those stories with the Institute still intact. Riot's Lore team is just lazy... and that should be evident by the amount of work they've ACTUALLY put out since the end of the JoJ.

Bikohoness29 votes

Somebody once suggested that every department at Riot Games suffers from terrible management. I didn't want to believe it at the time, but every day that goes by convinces me that it is true.

Bad decision-making. A list of half-finished initiatives a mile long, enormously high priority put on things that don't really matter, while fundamental issues go unaddressed forever.

I remember working at a small start-up populated entirely by college grads that always thought their ideas were the pinnacle of brilliance, couldn't stay focused on the project as soon as it got hard, and threw temper tantrums if everybody else didn't do it "their way". You can probably guess that company failed miserably.

Unfortunately that is exactly what Riot Games looks like from the outside. They sure aren't failing yet, but moves like this lore reset sure doesn't build confidence as a brand.

dialMARK4acti0n6 votes

Hey! Haaaaave you met DC Comics?

CupcakeTrap15 votes

Is Factions folding in response to this announcement? Ha. Ha. Surely you jest.

Post: Riot’s Lore Retcon and Factions

Maybe we'll have to retcon Factions into a more abstract version that uses matches as symbolic representations of battles or something. We can deal. I just don't understand why Riot was so convinced it couldn't write lore without deleting the League from League.

Cameron Woof3 votes

Maybe we'll have to retcon Factions into a more abstract version that uses matches as symbolic representations of battles or something.

This is waaaaaay more interesting than solving every fight by hiking out to the Land Where Nothing Matters and duking it out for half an hour. In the wake of the new lore changes, "Let's settle this on the Fields of Justice!" just sounds like "Let's settle this with a children's card game!" to me.

The League just doesn't work unless champions have no relationship to each other whatsoever or are all backstabbing scumbags willing to betray their friends in order to... what, exactly? For fame? For power? For the Freljord? The League has always been a flimsy story construct.

The idea that there's an entire world behind League of Legends is laughable when any and all conflicts that ever happen are fought in one unchanging field where no one dies.

If the League is to be considered a serious political entity, you have to submit to one of these hilarious truths:

  • That everyone is okay with having geopolitical struggles solved by meaningless battle in a field by people who are thrown together at complete random to fight, regardless of their actual affiliations with one another or their "opponents"

OR

  • That the fights are done for entertainment only, and the notoriety gained by arena warfare is enough to hold sway in actual politics the world over.

Neither of these are practical, sensible, or believable. If Riot wants to move forward, and they want to do so by axing the idea of there being a League, I say more power to them. Only time will tell, however, if they do anything meaningful with their newfound freedom. As much as I'd love to read a novel following Ashe's exploits in attempting to unite the disparate clans of the Freljord, I have sincere doubts that we'll get anything remotely close.

All in all, while I approve of the shift in lore direction, I don't think this means any change whatsoever in how lore is created or distributed. It's very likely to be more of the same for the foreseeable future.

ChroniclerC5 votes

Factions gets around that problem by restricting champion lists based on what faction you play for. A match between Demacia and Noxus will be almost entirely composed of Demacian champions versus Noxian champions.

And really, you have to admit a lore/game relation of "The game is very similar to what happens in lore" is preferable to "The game has zero relation to what happens in lore". 90%+ of matches being non-cannon is better than 100% of matches being non-cannon.

Cameron Woof1 votes

At that point, though, it's still silly. You're telling two world superpowers that they can't go to war, but instead they get to play football to decide who would win if they actually COULD go to war.

CupcakeTrap6 votes

It's more like: the two world superpowers realize that if either of them actually goes all-out it will escalate into another Rune War and destroy the planet, so they play football instead. World-destroying warfare is a pretty unpleasant contemplation for even a Noxian.

And again, there's still conflict, at least in the Factions version of the universe (which did not take 30 full-time writers to create) — but the League sets the boundaries, e.g., "no fighting beyond the island of Shon-Xan and its surrounding waters" or "neither side gets to deploy any more troops for the time being" or "instead of fighting a battle over this ancient city that will destroy said city with collateral damage, we'll hold a tournament and the winner will get to 'peacefully' take control of it."

Maganar3 votes

You ever heard of the Cold War? They may not have nukes, but they have nuclear-level magic.

CupcakeTrap5 votes

There is plenty of actual conflict in the Factions universe. Look at Shon-Xan, for example. The League is not omnipotent, and knows that its legitimacy would quickly deteriorate if it invoked its power too frequently. ("The Council has made their decision—now let them enforce it!") It's just trying to set some limits to prevent warfare from destroying the planet.

Factions don't always respect the League, in Factions (e.g. when Demacia violated a League peace edict by marching on Zaun's mines in Shurima) or in regular LoL lore (where Demacia and Noxus fought over Kalamanda). So far, the League has been able to keep these outbursts somewhat in check, but only because the factions are ultimately in agreement about the risk of mutually assured destruction.

Why do the powerful factions continue supporting the League? There are really two components.

Warfare
When it comes to the "big" issues, like the invasion of Shon-Xan, the major factions recognize that the League is a necessary arbiter to prevent another Rune War. It's not that different from the Cold War: yes, they'll skirmish, and fight proxy battles, but at the end of the day they'll keep their nukes in their silos and agree to be bound by a diplomatic regime they created because they realize, as Joshua would say, THE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY.

Smaller disputes
Most of what the League handles is not massive wars, but smaller arguments. A Bilgewater ship runs aground in the Isles, and Karthus wants to make them permanent residents, so there's a fight in the League for the fate of the crew. Piltover is taxing cupcakes from Bandle City at a higher rate because they argue the freshness charm on them makes them "magical artifacts"; Bandle City's yordlawyers disagree, so a round of what we call "solo queue matches" resolves the matter. This is simply an issue of efficiency: submitting to international arbitration resolves these disputes without lots of messy conflict. This happens IRL all the time with international corporations and states.

Cameron Woof1 votes

You say it's an issue of efficiency, but there's no way that arena warfare is the most efficient way to settle cupcake disputes. And again, you run into the issue of "What's more interesting," Karthus declaring that he wants to kill a bunch of pirates, so they all get sucked into the Fields of Justice to fight, or that there's an actual naval battle between the pirate crew and the ghost crew of an ancient sunken pirate ship?

The League is a black hole into which anything interesting disappears. You said it yourself; every battle, no matter how large or small, is dictated by gladiatorial combat.

Runeterra is a huge world filled with so many interesting characters and personalities--hell, we can even get story-important characters that aren't Champions now! Imagine reading about the personalities of the clan leaders of the Freljord, as told by Ashe from actual battle experience. Imagine reading how Ashe reacts to war coming to her own village, rather than everything being arbitrated by League fights.

Riot figured out that they could tell an actual story using the world as a setting instead of a backdrop and I am so enthused that they want to do that.

ChroniclerC2 votes

I just wish they didn't have to completely tear down all the established stories and setting that we already had - and loved - in order to do that.

LeeDark2 votes

The major problem that a lot of people seem to have is this idea that canon battles in the League have to be RANDOM champions all thrown together for the Institute's purposes. That's not how it works, and to state it that way means you don't know jack about the prior lore and shouldn't be waxing idiotic about it. Was Ionia v. Noxus RANDOM CHAMPIONS? The reason the League existed was because the Rune Wars nearly destroyed all of Runeterra. So yes, most people would agree that a more controlled form of warfare was necessary.

ShadowKnight122412 votes

I absolutely loved the challenges presented by the League as a framing device. I am sorely disappointed that projects like these are going to fall firmly into "non-canon" territory simply because the lore team took the easy way out.

Chosen Chozo10 votes

Had to log in to upvote this. Honestly, it sounds like the Lore team just gave up trying to fit the story with the game, and it disappoints me to hear that. I'm sure there's a ton of reasons as to why they did it, but this is a video game. In order to tell the story best in a video game, you have to use the strengths from the media, instead of divorcing it completely from how the majority of players will experience the story.

What really bothers me is that since the game and story are separate, those special interactions between champs have little meaning, and all of our actions as summoners have no meaning at all. The champs themselves will feel like toys when I play them, rather than an actual living thing. When I hear Lucian curse Thresh for killing his wife, I'm just going to see two puppets acting out some play on a stage, instead of understanding the pain that Lucian went through, and the joy Thresh feels for his acts. When the Three Queens side quest appears, I'm not going to care who wins, because I know what my team does in that match literally does not matter in terms of the overarching story of the game.

What I would have preferred is that champions not ALWAYS be a part of the League. I don't believe the way the League works right now requires a constant commitment to it, and even if it does Riot could retcon that so it works that way. This way, champions don't have to have a specific reason to join the League in their lore (like the new champs) unless it's relevant, and can join when they have a specific reason too. For example, let's say that Demacia is facing off against the Shadow Isles, because reasons. Lucian normally wouldn't be allied with Demacia despite being raised there, but in this case would side with them and join the League. Also, if the lore was handled in this way, there could be events that happen every once in a while, and depending on summoners actions (perhaps Factions battles, perhaps something else), events could end differently. Maybe events could involve special matches, like the 1v1 Snowdowns, or could effect how a champion plays for a while in normal matches. There's a lot of ways that this could have been handled, and I just don't agree that removing the lore from the game is the way to go.

I'll end this with one more thing: someone had made the comparison between this and Super Smash Bros., in that the games we play now are just fantasy matches with League champs. The main fundamental flaw with this thinking is that in SSB, the characters you play are actually dolls or trophies because that's how that game works, and that's really what that game is: pit Nintendo characters against each other because it would be cool to see how they would fight and who would win. League of Legends is not that kind of a game. The characters are not dolls, they are living creatures in the lore. And they deserve to be treated that way, in the game and out.

The Red Warden8 votes

I don't know if this will help, but here is a list of all the champions whose personal bios (since apparently nothing else in the lore matters anymore) mention the league or are interconnected with it

First are the ones whose lore now makes no sense at all due to the changes: Jax Nocturne Chogath Kayle Morgana LeeSin Brand Singed Fiddlesticks Pantheon Orianna

The rest are the ones who only have a sentence or two about the league: Ahri Akali Corki Gangplank Hecarim Galio Graves KogMaw Malphite Zilean Tristana Annie Amumu Taric Sion Blitzcrank Alistar Viktor Malzahar Ryze MissFortune Fizz Leona Nautilus Sona Shen Shaco Varus Urgot Nidalee Teemo XinZhao Lulu Kennen DrMundo Caitlyn Irelia TwistedFate Ziggs Talon Lux Poppy Swain Veigar MonkeyKing Vayne Evelynn Janna Rumble Yorick Leblanc

sp4412 votes

I assume that they're going to touch up their lore in the coming months.

Although I hope to GOD that the poor excuse for a backstory that we've seen on the PBE is not going to be the final format, and the rewrites are only there to accommodate the lore changes until they can address it.

The Red Warden2 votes

Watch as in the time being all of these champions are moved into wherever the next lore event takes place

Maganar2 votes

This is precisely what I was worried about when I saw the announcement: that they might have something ready to roll out that will make them even less likely to do the reasonable thing and retract this statement.

Pray tell, what is this "backstory" on the PBE, because now I am legitimately terrified for the future of this game now that I know they have something ready and that the one person I have seen mentioning and reacting to it has done so with this degree of revulsion.

:O

TaisisKitty2 votes

INCORRECT explain why the champions on the bottom are even IN the league? why is yassuo in the league why would braum and lissandra submit to the summoners? why would velkoz allow himself to be controlled? why would hecarim? why would naught or thresh?

"jynx joins to blow shit up and get payed" that is the worst defence of a plot hole I have ever heard, if thats what you call "lore" you are laughable.

you can close your eyes and cover your ears and live in some la la land where the major plot holes that make up this games lore do not exist..then you can come back to reality and realize that it makes NOT ONE BIT OF SENSE in the games current form

The Red Warden8 votes

Yes, the current lore does have problems with it, most people know that. I am just saying how the lores of the champions I have listed cannot be taken for canon anymore if Riot takes the direction they said they would be. Also while Riot used to find ways to why a champion is in the league they just stopped caring about it around 2 years before today's declaration of what they will be doing.

Prof Nekko14 votes

ok then

Jinx: Gets fame, fortune, men, women (who knows?), and gets to harass Fat Hands and Hat Lady publicly and no matter what she does on the field they can't arrest her for it. It's like the league as a little slice of heaven for her.

Vel'koz: During one of his "research" sessions (aka dismantling a summoner or diplomat) he learns about the league. After further "research" he learns how the league works and that the summoned come back after being killed. He concludes that by participating in the league he has limitless research material.

Hecarim: Uses the league as his grandstand to strike fear into the world by showing off the raw power the Shadow Isles possess (you know the note clearly stated in his own lore page)

Nautilus: intends to use the league to eventually discover the names of the people who chose to leave him to die (yet again, flat out spelled out in his lore.)

Braum: Being a public hero and legend in his own right, Braum is approached by Ashe who extends an offer to fight for the freljord in the league. He is reluctant to leave his home and goats, but the cheers and encouragements of the townspeople who love him spur him to join.

Lissandra: Discovers the Institue of War may have information on reviving the watchers, and joins the league for the express purpose of finding this information herself. Or she could be using it as a gambit to keep the rest of the world's eyes on her while her armies build in the frozen north.

Thresh: "Once Thresh takes an interest in a soul, he does not relent until he possesses it." During thresh's wanderings he discovers a summoner engaged in combat, seeing the sheer power he can perform, he decides he must claim the soul as his own. He joins the league as a means to hunt is prey.

Yasuo: this one's easy, he joins the league assuming that since it is a gathering of powerful warriors that the swordsman who killed his master is a part of it... Or be drawn to it. Or he simply joins the league under the banner of Ionia as a means to prove to his people he is not a murderer.

Wow all those justifications and it only took me about 10 minutes to figure them all out. Gee that was hard

TaisisKitty1 votes

Lol and alot of those justifications basically ignore the character archetypes. i find it hard to believe that creatures such as veloz would willingly allow them selves to essentially become mindless puppets(as is the case if we go with the old lore) however this topic in and of it self is not helpful there is a much better one on the rise that will hopefully be upvoted and put this QQ fest in the ground

Prof Nekko9 votes

I see no QQ in the OP merely a counterpoint to a statement Riot made using evidence and asking Riot to respond. It may be a bit aggressive but hey they're upset what do you expect?

Anyways back to the main topic Vel'koz is defined by his obsession to learn and research. And as a scientist he would also seek the most practical means of solving it. So if participating in the league allows him to get knowledge, at a faster pace then wandering alone, then he would do it.

as for the mindless puppets thing... I believe that is the gameplay/story segregation. In actual Runeterra it's more likely the summoners act as tacticians, guiding their actions and empowering them. Because if the actual summoners acted like the ones behind the computers... Well then the League would be a glorified comedy show... However if that's not the case then it's more likely Vel'koz theorized that temporary loss of control of body is a respectable tradeoff for all the knowledge he is gaining

CupcakeTrap8 votes

In actual Runeterra it's more likely the summoners act as tacticians, guiding their actions and empowering them.

This is indeed the Factions version. It's mostly my own headcanon, because I find the mind-control explanation creepy and weird.

333lom4 votes

Great ideas you have there! Even though they were made in ten minutes, this shows that there's no objective reason for removing the Institute of War from the Lore. I agree as well that Summoners are in fact forming a link with their champion, giving them heads up signals and guiding them, not controlling them like puppets.

Zhugan7 votes

SHHHHH!

You are making sense and Riot stopped doing that years ago!

Whitakker7 votes

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/6d3/eb0/df2/resized/shots-fired-meme-generator-shots-fired-08537a.jpg?1348337891.jpg

You're doing God's work, CCT.

CupcakeTrap4 votes

^.^

Godwyn6 votes

I don't have much to add, except perhaps a wish that the factions creators were in charge of the new lore instead of whoever is.

TwoPacalypse5 votes

I've thought this ever since i saw the Factions thing go up on the forums.

I've always thought the League should work like the U.N., but instead of ABOLISHING war, they REGULATE war into league matches!

Noxus wants to Annex a Demacian territory? The league sets up a match and the winner gets the clay!

I never understood why they didnt just implement a Factions queue, where you could fight for whatever faction you wanted! Probably would get a lot more use that dominion.

Mattsumune4 votes

I believe the head of Riot's story department said that the creating narrative that players can follow was a waste of time? I mean he even made a presentation of it. This is just the result.

Boswick4 votes

They honestly should've just hired you to keep writing the JoJ.

dialMARK4acti0n2 votes

What about Yasuo? "Yeah, I feel like putting this sword to use by fighting the people trying to arrest me, meanwhile, trying to find out if one these 120 other dudes killed my master... OH! WANT DO YOU KNOW? THERE SHE (probly) IS!"

... C'mon... Jinx was the easy way out argument.

BESIDES, factions have NOTHING to do with League or Summoners... they have to do with :OO LORE!!! Big shock, right? But, I'll be damned if Garen's lore isn't considered patriotic for Demacia!

AbiwonKenabi3 votes

Here's an explanation for Yasuo's reasoning from Prof Nekko above:

Yasuo: this one's easy, he joins the league assuming that since it is a gathering of powerful warriors that the swordsman who killed his master is a part of it... Or be drawn to it. Or he simply joins the league under the banner of Ionia as a means to prove to his people he is not a murderer.

I think of the League of Legends as a center of influence and power. If you want things done in the world, you go to the League, because all the world powers are there to manipulate, and that's where deciding gladiatorial matches can earn you some good things for your factions or even just for yourself.

CupcakeTrap5 votes

I think of the League of Legends as a center of influence and power. If you want things done in the world, you go to the League, because all the world powers are there to manipulate, and that's where deciding gladiatorial matches can earn you some good things for your factions or even just for yourself.

Exactly. For example, why would Braum join? Because winning favors with powerful factions can help the Freljord and his village.

SkylarSans2 votes

Can you stop advertising this on every possible LoL related site?

Kaine1 votes

I think the issues was more with the concept of the all powerful summoner. You cant really have Syndra single handedly crack the foundations of Ionia when these summoners exist that can bzip and poof, she has to do a 30 minute political match.

CupcakeTrap7 votes

Which is why that's not how Summoners are in Factions. I should really just do a post about this at this point, but here's the quick version:

  • Summoners are powerful mages. They're not all-powerful. The League's power is maintained because Demacia and Noxus see fit to keep it in place (for now), and because the nations of Valoran recognize that without the League as referee sooner or later the planet will blow up.
  • Summoners do not mind-control Champions. They back them up, advising them and helping them with magic.
  • I don't see Summoners as actually yanking Champions onto the Fields from wherever they may be. Champions show up when they want to show up, but Summoners do have the authority to request their presence. Champions show up for the same reason they joined the League: they win favor (and probably even get paid directly) by the factions who call them forth.

If Riot's going to do a major overhaul of lore, why not revise rather than destroy?

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