@Riot, did you know that..

Wukong Airlines·Sep 6, 2017·61 votes·2,256 views

there are other Monk Champions you could work on, buff/adjust/mini-rework, and at least MAKE SOME CHANGES TO, instead of constantly giving this dude more advantage which he doesn't deserve at all?

54 Comments

Soraka is SO HOTSep 6, 201743 votes

Don't forget Yorick ... although even Yorick forgets Yorick eventually....

Trap or a TrickSep 6, 20171 votes

[deleted]

Dale WardarkSep 6, 201723 votes

He is a monk according to his new lore.

Wukong AirlinesSep 7, 20171 votes

I bet this argument was about Udyr being from Freljord. Problem is people dont read the entire lore and know Lee took him to the temple then trained with the Monks.

AimléssSep 7, 20173 votes

Lol he did just get reworked though, he's fine for now.

InfernapeSep 6, 201724 votes

It's the patch Worlds is going to be played on. Of course they'd buff Lee Sin.

To be fair, both Udyr and Wukong would require quite large scope work.

Wukong AirlinesSep 6, 20176 votes

To be honest I'm fine with wukong, just need to get his passive and R changed, W adjusted, he has a high potential to become melee hypercarry, which he should've been at first place.

Udyr needs an entire new kit, full melee spells wont no more since it's all CC metas and every newly release champion got CC.

PePsiLemoNNSep 6, 20175 votes

Right , I'm sure that a 20/15/10/5 shield increase is gonna make him completely busted.

InfernapeSep 7, 20171 votes

And where did you see me say that it will?

PePsiLemoNNSep 7, 20171 votes

You just said they buffed him cause of worlds , implying that he will be played at worlds ... You know , where only OP/Very strong stuff is played?

LeetriSep 7, 20172 votes

They changed it to a 15/10/5/0/-5 increase compared to live.

Glory to GodSep 7, 20175 votes

The fact that they even CONSIDERING buffing him while Shyvana struggles on her clear is shamelessly absurd.

OyddAWqJ5rSep 7, 20171 votes

Alright good it's not just me. Cuz I just tried to play her again and thought I was just a scrub who didn't know how to clear with her anymore lol.

ThefrostyvikingSep 7, 20171 votes

Shyv is struggling? O_O

She´s my most played jungler and i have little issue O-o

Altho my pathing is bad.

SqueySep 7, 20171 votes

did u just say shyv struggles on her clear? You sir are not playing the same game as everyone else then. She has the fastest clear speed and is doing a little too well since her past buff.

OyddAWqJ5rSep 7, 20171 votes

I don't think +20 to anything on other other champion would make them busted either. But hey, favorites.

Glory ln DeathSep 7, 20171 votes

I mean... it depends on what that "anything" is we're adding 20 to.

JustSirSep 6, 20175 votes

I get that lee has a high skill floor to master and make work like he is supposed to do. But god dammit if i HATE playing against a good lee. If you arent prepared for it, he is impossible to catch, and does SO MUCH DAMAGE early game. Im in Gold 5 and i ban lee every game just so that i dont accidentally run into a smurf lee because i honestly dont know how to outplay him

ForFoxSakesSep 6, 20177 votes

The only real hard part on Lee is getting good Insec plays. The rest is quite straightforward

JustSirSep 6, 20171 votes

the hard part for me is war hoping without pausing and doing the spell buffering...took me long enough to learn rivens fast combo...

DaNinadSep 6, 20171 votes

dodge q

Bob the ToastrSep 7, 20174 votes

Yes, dodge his q while you're in the middle of being kicked, during which you can't do anything. Yeah definitely just dodge it.

FairyfleurSep 7, 20173 votes

Yeah, while he's ward hopping to you along with his above average movement speed.

Glory ln DeathSep 7, 20171 votes

Get kicked inside a minion wave.

Bob the ToastrSep 8, 20171 votes

That would maybe work if his ult didn't also do a ton of damage to every unit that gets hit by you when you get kicked.

DaNinadSep 7, 20171 votes

if he uses a 120 second cooldown ability on you shouldn't he be rewarded?

KoKobotoSep 7, 20171 votes

The only thing you can outplay from Lee Sin is dodging his Q.

But than he just either ward hops into melee range or uses his R first which guarantees a Q usually :T

Xion The XIVSep 7, 20171 votes

I have to agree with you there. But then I ran into a problem a Good lee Sin you will find maybe once in 20 games. But even a garbage shaco will eventually 1 shot your adc.

Bionic JellyfishSep 7, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I get that lee has a high skill floor to master and make work like he is supposed to do. But god dammit if i HATE playing against a good lee. If you arent prepared for it, he is impossible to catch, and does SO MUCH DAMAGE early game. Im in Gold 5 and i ban lee every game just so that i dont accidentally run into a smurf lee because i honestly dont know how to outplay him

pro tip = you dont. you cant outplay a good early fame lee sin. you outscale him

rtbf225618241Sep 7, 20173 votes

Wasn't Yorick a monk or something aswell?

SinlaireSep 7, 20171 votes

he is. His weapon was actually based off of the weapon traveling Monk's used called the Moon Spade. It had a crescent moon at top of a shovel with the shovel being meant for the dead they encountered on their travels and the crescent part for fighting off attackers.

essentially the weapon was moon for the living, shovel for the dead.

Yorick's line in game is water for the living, shovel for the dead.

rtbf225618241Sep 7, 20171 votes

Man i really wish his shovel's end was crescent and glow-y like Diana's but that's just me. :P

SinlaireSep 7, 20171 votes

agreed. but if he didnt attack with it it would just make for more asset and clutter without purpose.

you know the moment it was added people would complain he didn't use it, and if he did it's extra work versus 2-3 base auto attacks and a Q smash. With all the work they have to put into his minions, maiden, shadow gate cloak, and all that, he would have been way over budget as a champ with that added touch. :(

rtbf225618241Sep 7, 20171 votes

Well it kinda does work if you think about the Q. His Shovel does glow but it just doesn't remind me of the moon lol.

Glory ln DeathSep 7, 20173 votes

Just because Wukong is a MONKey does not mean he's a monk, dude.

SinlaireSep 7, 20171 votes

Wukong is based off of Sun Wukong from Chinese mythology about a traveler in "Journey Into the West" who gained enlightenment and became immortal.

Which is a very long running theme for monks. Such as Lee's God Fist skin which Riot has personally stated is an alternate universe Lee who has gained enlightenment, transcended into a god, and became immortal.

He was also a big trickster and was often described as having monkey like qualities such as his attitude, acrobatics, and sometimes even in his appearance. He also was frequently described as being like clouds or traveling on them, much like the cloud from Wukong's dash.

So yeah, he's a monk. He's a champion based on a myth of a transcended monk and thus he is what he is.

Glory ln DeathSep 7, 20172 votes

So, because Sion is basically a zombie, he limps around searching for brains to eat?

Because Vlad is based on vampires, he evaporates in sunlight?

Because your dad is a convicted sex offender and you are based off of his DNA, you're a sex offender, too?

Wukong is not Sun Wukong from Journey to the West. It doesn't matter who he was or what he did. Wukong is a mischievous Vastaya warrior who decided to become Master Yi's apprentice/trainee/whatever and now follows him around in Ionia. He isn't a monk.

SinlaireSep 8, 20171 votes

Sion limps because the leg he limps on isn't a real leg, it's a prosthetic in some skins and just a bad leg in others. I believe in his lumberjack skin it's just a wooden peg leg. In his hextech i think it's made of steel.
Vlad is a Hemomancer. He is a mage that controls blood and is very not a Vampire. Riot themselves have stated that is very very much not a vampire and he is officially a hemomancer.
that's just a stupid shot. but considering your first two statements failed, it's not that far out of line.
I Literally said the words "Based off of". I didn't say he is Sun Wukong because just copy pasting one of the most over used characters in chinese mythology is just dumb. Big whoop if they changed his lore. They had to to begin with, it doesn't change where the champion concept came from.

Also, if he is a trainee under Master Yi, what does that make him? Yi holds a master title, holds his own sword art known as Wuju Style, and is even capable of meditating with a voice effect sounding like monks in mantra. Is Master Yi just some guy with a sword? he's a master of something and he meditates. He even has a Jedi skin. Jedi whom are famous for their monk like qualities, mystical powers, and padawan learners. Wukong apparently learns under him you say.

And yet none of this apparently warrants any level of Monk like acknowledgement. ok friend.

Glory ln DeathSep 8, 20172 votes

Monk:

a member of a religious community of men typically living under vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience.

Lee Sin is a monk. He lives, works, and trains in an Ionian monastery and has officially joined the monks' order. Udyr could have become a monk, had he remained with Lee Sin, but he did not. He chose to return to the Freljord after receiving the guidance and assistance of Lee Sin and his fellow monks. Master Yi is not a monk. He is a warrior of a specific style of swordsmanship - to call him a monk would be like calling samurai monks.

Just because someone is a "Master" does not make them a monk. "Master" is an informal title in martial arts that recognizes a senior or very experienced practitioner. Master Yi's (former) occupation was similar to traditional dojos in Japan - a teacher or leader among a group of students all learning and focusing on a specific fighting style - in this case Wuju. There was no religious aspect involved.

Meditation is not a practice unique to monks. Most fighting disciplines involve some form of meditation as a part of their training. Just because someone meditates does not make them a monk. You might as well say anyone who does yoga is a monk.

Referencing the Jedi, you are again saying that because someone shares similar qualities to someone else, they must be exactly the same. You're going even further, and saying that because Master Yi has a non-canon SKIN that is based off of Jedi, his entire lore must be the same, and he has to be a monk. Well, I guess Sion is a giant robot that can transform into a train. Or Lux is a magical girl defending the universe from evil. Or Teemo's Omega Squad skin lore must be his actual lore, and he and Veigar are best buds.

Also, guess what? I did a little research into Journey to the West, because a lot of your statements seemed off. You are suggesting that Sun Wukong was a monk, but he most certainly was not. At best, he was essentially a bodyguard and traveling companion to a monk during parts of the novel. Also, he didn't "have monkey-like qualities", he was literally a monkey.

Finally, you seem to have misunderstood the comparisons I made. Which is odd, because the statements use the exact same faulty logic that you have been using.

Your statement:

So yeah, he's a monk. He's a champion based on a myth of a transcended monk and thus he is what he is.

Essentially, "Because Wukong is based off of Sun Wukong, Wukong = Sun Wukong."

My statements:

Because Sion is based off of zombies, he must do what zombies do (limp around and try to eat brains).
Because Vlad is based off of the idea of vampires, he must be a vampire, and do what they do (die in sunlight).
Because someone's dad is a sex offender and they are based off of their dad through DNA, they must be the same as their dad. Therefore, they are a sex offender, too.

If we apply your logic as to why Wukong is a monk to these statements, they make perfect sense. However, normal logic says that none of the statements are true. It is ridiculous to think that Wukong is a monk just because the character who inspired him was... Oh, wait! He wasn't even a monk! So there's absolutely no basis for that, anyways, no matter how faulty the logic is!

So, what have we learned here?

Wukong does not fit the basic definition of a monk (no religious order, has not taken religious vows, etc)
Sun Wukong, the inspiration for Wukong, was not a monk
Master Yi, Wukong's mentor, is not a monk either, so he is definitely not even being trained to become a monk
Skin lines do not reflect canon lore

All right! Glad we got that all taken care of!

zaire90Sep 7, 20172 votes

And the cycle continues I guess Ahris after this

FairyfleurSep 7, 20171 votes

She isn't a world's favorite as much as Lee Sin is.

Shepherd o SoulsSep 7, 20172 votes

Yorick wasn't completely ignored, they did do a lot of quality of life changes to him a while ago and made him feel better to play. Maiden still gets beat down late game though.

The TrentSep 7, 20171 votes

Hasn't Wukong always had a pretty good winrate and okay playrate? I see WuKong mains winning game all the time. Udyr on the other hand... Just a bad a champ. He and Singed need to be reworked.

VeltoxSep 7, 20171 votes

Singed is already fairly unique with some dedicated mains by his side. I'm aware the design is quite old but not every champion needs shinny mechanics.

The TrentSep 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

is already fairly unique with some dedicated mains by his side. I'm aware the design is quite old but not every champion needs shinny mechanics.

Singed is really hard for casual players to play against and proxy farming is definitely one of the most toxic things in the game. Most players don't know how to deal with it because most players are casuals. We can't just tell someone to get good at the game and learn how to deal with proxy farming, they have other things to deal with, like life. You don't see Singed in competitive either because he's not fun to watch and most players don't find him fun to play. He's one of the least played champions. If you want to call a champion unique you can look at Ivern. He is very unique, but his counterplay is obvious. He has very weak ganks and he is very easy to 1v1. New players can quickly understand that. When we're talking about proxy farming, new players have to learn a lot in the short time of 20 minutes to play against him. First of all, how to ward. They are horrible at this. Secondly when every minion wave spawns. Thirdly, when and how to roam, because guess what, they can't farm under turret, they're casuals. They barely farm at all. Singed just provides a very toxic experience for anyone that plays against him. I personally think he's a garbage champ and I win against him a lot, but I'm not a casual. I remember my first time getting proxy farmed. I was just mortified and had no idea what to do. No player should have to deal with that. Counterplay and what you have to do in the game should be obvious. They build tank, oh I build armor pen. They picked a Maokai? Oh I guess that means I should build a little bit of MR. The singed is making it so no minions can push my lane and junglers never start top anymore so I can't ask for a gank and then when my jungler does gank the singed gets executed? WHAT IS GOING ON???? That's basically what it feels like to play vs Singed. Singed support I'm fine with though. Proxying is the only thing in Singed's kit that should be removed. I know proxy farming when you're really far ahead in your lane is a normal thing, but that's a reward for outplaying your opponent multiple times. Singed just gets it for free and the casual has no idea what to do.

VeltoxSep 8, 20171 votes

This kind of game should never be balanced around casuals no matter what argument you give. If it was for that Garen would have build in crit change on his spin because it's fun.

The TrentSep 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

This kind of game should never be balanced around casuals no matter what argument you give. If it was for that would have build in crit change on his spin because it's fun.

Um casuals make up the majority of players, so yes it should? It should be half balanced around casuals and half around lcs. That's how league will continue to grow and reach a wider audience. You realize once you hit gold you're in the top 10% of the players right? You want Riot to balance around 10% of players when it could affect the 90% that sucks at the game? Please never run your own business with that kind of logic. It'll fail.

VeltoxSep 8, 20171 votes

That kind of logic will make all veterans that spend a fortune on this game leave because it's not worth playing anymore and maybe if ever come back for ARAM or some gamemode.