Could we get support items against AD champions?

only zhule·Apr 17, 2016·2 votes·1,156 views

For this i mean an item like , but it gives bonus armor to you and an aura of bonus armor to allies. I know exists but it's not exactly what i'm looking for, since many champions are going to be doing their physical damage via abilities and such rather then short range auto attacks. I think this would be a fairly easy thing to work into the game, and provided it's coded so you can't stack the item, it should provide diversity in item build paths and allow for supports to build items that work well against heavy AD team comps.

I'd also love to see some flipped versions of other items in the game, like an armor negating aura like negates magic resist. But perhaps that's a topic best left to another thread.

15 Comments

Sariat1Apr 17, 20161 votes

Taric ?

67chromeApr 17, 20161 votes

Could we get support items against AD champions?

item 3050 item 3143 item 3110 item 3025 item 3512 ?

There are a lot of solid armor items for supports. I mean: legitimate tanks have support as their ideal lane-roll due to how supportive pure-tanks and, by extension, pure-tank itemization is by default.

only zhuleApr 17, 20162 votes

{quoted}

?

There are a lot of solid armor items for supports. I mean: legitimate tanks have support as their ideal lane-roll due to how supportive pure-tanks and, by extension, pure-tank itemization is by default.

But none of these do what i'm asking for. I want armor for my team mates, an item that helps my teammate survive an additional 1 or 2 abilities. Frozen heart is the only one that even kind of does this, but even it is not great since so many champions now do their damage via abilities rather then having to auto attack you. And even against champions that DO auto attack minus 15% attack speed doesn't do all that much compared to their plus like 50-80%

Zero Skill TankApr 17, 20161 votes

Those items are build on supports for lack of other options, but as 'solid items for support' they are nowhere near item 3105 or item 3222 . Also, except for item 3110 , none of them allows you to protect your allies. But is never going to be rushed the way you can rush , and it is useless vs many champions, while protects against all magic damage dealers.

tseiheiApr 17, 20161 votes

item 3050 just needs to be switched to giving attack speed instead of crit chance so that people can actually use it again. Or better yet, make it something that is actually useful for supports to use on mages...

AmelieApr 17, 20161 votes

So basically... the old aegis of the legion that they nerfed about 3+ seasons ago? ._.

only zhuleApr 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So basically... the old aegis of the legion that they nerfed about 3+ seasons ago? ._.

Kind of, i wouldn't mind it being more armor focused rather then covering both. Make it so you have to choose been armor or magic resist.

AmelieApr 17, 20161 votes

I mean... I liked it too, but it was removed for a reason. Support + jungler were always building it together and the aura negated a lot of damage.

Riot really hates constant team-wide auras. I think they intentionally switched to shields. ( item 3190 )

only zhuleApr 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I mean... I liked it too, but it was removed for a reason. Support + jungler were always building it together and the aura negated a lot of damage.

Riot really hates constant team-wide auras. I think they intentionally switched to shields. ( )

I still think it is more then possible to make the item without it being abused. It might mean that you have two characters each giving up one item slot for a "team defense" based item (one for MR and one for armor). Or you could have the support who's just a walking ball of auras/ active shield effects. Even if you get that, it would likely remain garbage unless you are dealing with a champion who's kit is just built around being abusive despite poor scaling.

Hell if they don't want to design a new item, they could always do something simple like allow item 3190 to shift from MR to armor. either have the final upgrade allow you to choose between the two or put a cooldown on the item that allows you to click it and change the aura from one to the other. You of course make the cooldown long enough that players can't just spam it mid fight to hybrid the bonuses, but short enough that you aren't waiting 5 mins between uses.

What i'm getting at though is that there currently doesn't really exist an item in the game that a player can buy that's good for your whole team against physical damage characters.

AmelieApr 17, 20161 votes

The problem being that it makes Aegis a must-buy... literally every support was rushing the old one. That was basically their core item that they absolutely needed by mid-game teamfights.

That said, I think it would be interesting to have 2 Lockets - one for armor, one for MR - where you could switch between them in the shop.

CoolKnightSTApr 17, 20161 votes

It's mostly because all other support items are pretty terrible. So far the item 3105 line is the only line that can actualy be build into 2 decent items:

is to expensive while it's upgrade is pretty shit despite the stats it provide could already solve part of the problems supports have against AD. I think is actualy decent and I would actualy buy it sometimes if the wasn't so unwhelming in the support role.
seems ok but the upgrades are not. is perfectly fine but is just straight up to expensive for the support role.
feels like the new to me. Seriously it's even cheaper. The attackspeed reduction aura is nice but when most of the marksman damage comes from crit. To be fair having this item as an support option isn't so bad.
just got overnerfed and became underwhelming ever since the marksman changes. It's pretty easy to work arround the item.
can be ok sometimes but it's to expensive for support. But since it's not designed for the support role I see no problems with this.
line will actualy become decent for supports in the mage update despite the unsuitable passive. It's a little bit like in that scenario.

only zhuleApr 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's mostly because all other support items are pretty terrible. So far the line is the only line that can actualy be build into 2 decent items:

is to expensive while it's upgrade is pretty shit despite the stats it provide could already solve part of the problems supports have against AD. I think is actualy decent and I would actualy buy it sometimes if the wasn't so unwhelming in the support role.

seems ok but the upgrades are not. is perfectly fine but is just straight up to expensive for the support role.

feels like the new to me. Seriously it's even cheaper. The attackspeed reduction aura is nice but when most of the marksman damage comes from crit. To be fair having this item as an support option isn't so bad.

just got overnerfed and became underwhelming ever since the marksman changes. It's pretty easy to work arround the item.

can be ok sometimes but it's to expensive for support. But since it's not designed for the support role I see no problems with this.

line will actualy become decent for supports in the mage update despite the unsuitable passive. It's a little bit like in that scenario.

The problem being that excpet for Heart, none of these actually help your allies survive longer. Sure YOU survive longer and that might factor into helping your allies, but basically none of these do anything defensively for your allies.

CoolKnightSTApr 17, 20161 votes

I think a lot has to change in the armor itematisation:

We need an low armor componement with crit reduction. I feel that would be the most suitable item to give this. It sure would be a great counter in the toplane against starters. RIP top and we finally don't have to see nerfs again. It would also help a lot against marksmen that abuse the melee toplane. Raptor Cloak could build into:
= + to make it an item that focusses itself more arround crit rather than crit and attackspeed. The the price finally can go down.
, this item will become strong.
needs to become viable again. I would start with moving the item into another item line like this:
- +

I think this would become intressting. What if we let the cold steel passive effect turrets. So when a turret is focussing you it's attackspeed will get reduced. This would make it an really intressting item for early diving. It's not sure it would even need an active anymore with an passive like that. I would change the item into a less situational item. We could for example let increase every time that forget focusses you up to 3 times so we get something like this:

UNIQUE Passive - Cold Steel: When hit by basic or turret attacks, reduces the attacker's Attack Speed by 15% for 1 seconds. This effect increased with 5% up to 3 times (max 30% Attack Speed reduction)

So that would mean tanks will get 2 lines:

Need protection against crit: with options to build it into or
Need protection against attackspeed: with options to build it into or

only zhuleApr 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think a lot has to change in the armor itematisation:

We need an low armor componement with crit reduction. I feel that would be the most suitable item to give this. It sure would be a great counter in the toplane against starters. RIP top and we finally don't have to see nerfs again. It would also help a lot against marksmen that abuse the melee toplane. Raptor Cloak could build into:

= + to make it an item that focusses itself more arround crit rather than crit and attackspeed. The the price finally can go down.

, this item will become strong.

needs to become viable again. I would start with moving the item into another item line like this:

+

I think this would become intressting. What if we let the cold steel passive effect turrets. So when a turret is focussing you it's attackspeed will get reduced. This would make it an really intressting item for early diving. It's not sure it would even need an active anymore with an passive like that. I would change the item into a less situational item. We could for example let increase every time that forget focusses you up to 3 times so we get something like this:

UNIQUE Passive - Cold Steel: When hit by basic or turret attacks, reduces the attacker's Attack Speed by 15% for 1 seconds. This effect increased with 5% up to 3 times (max 30% Attack Speed reduction)

So that would mean tanks will get 2 lines:

Need protection against crit: with options to build it into or

Need protection against attackspeed: with options to build it into or

I'm not sure a passive aura the negates some part of crit damage is a good idea. And that was really the point i was trying to get across, a team based item that good against physical damage. So something with kind of so-so stats that a solo lane isn't inclined to get, but is really great for a 4-5 man push.

The Omen change seems interesting, but i don't think we need turrets having an even bigger weakness given how easily the go down currrently.

CoolKnightSTApr 18, 20161 votes

I agrea that turrets are in a weak spot right now. But that doesn't mean the items have to suffer. This might give us a reason to finally buff them.