League of Clicking.

Niyumi·Sep 11, 2016·1 votes·844 views

Because, honestly, any skillshot-reliant champion, or any champion with mechanics beyond clicking on people, is garbage and never played. The easiest champion you can think of will always be the strongest, hands down.

But, that's just how modern gaming is; reward incompetence, milk whales, make a profit. Who the fuck cares about the quality of your game? That's for those old-timers who actually gave a fuck about what they were doing.

*claps* Kudos, Riot. Good job being a part of the death of gaming, and exercising your greed. Proud of you.

34 Comments

ElikainSep 11, 20162 votes

It would have helped your case a lot if you actually said what/who is exactly the problem. From your post i can't surmise anything, other than the fact that you possibly hate clicking. And since you are a computer owner, you have a mouse.

Pretty hard to not to click on things.

NiyumiSep 11, 20161 votes

Well, the problem is Riot at the core of it all, and their fucking greed. The bigger issue is the generation of brats and lazy assholes who enable greedy companies like that.

QuarterQueerSep 11, 20161 votes

A lot of the 'greed' you talk about is just a lot of them trying to pay for the game, like nothing they do is free, no game is run for free, they're just trying to keep the game running, and it seems like you hate them for it

NiyumiSep 11, 20161 votes

Do you know how much Riot makes? Last time they released a financial report, they were making profit in the billions. I can only imagine that number continues to go upwards.

There's making money to keep the game running, and then there's being a greedy asshole and making as much money as you can for your the sake of greed -- and putting nothing back into the game just shows how little they care.

ElikainSep 11, 20162 votes

You still didn't specify what exactly is the problem. What did they do to piss you off?

What does it mean to be "greedy" in their case? I'll just assume you are a grown up that knows that nothing in this world is free. This game is free for everyone that doesn't want to invest a dime in it and you have the option on paying for cosmetics. No gameplay feature or faster progression is hidden behind a paywall. LCS probably generates income as well. Even with the addition of Hextech, you essentially can get free things that require money to buy.

What they do with that money is pay off employees, pay for the costs of running the game, organize e-sport competitions with prize pools and support the further development of the game. This also means making more skins, starting the entire cycle again.

NiyumiSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You still didn't specify what exactly is the problem. What did they do to piss you off?

In short, they perpetuated the death of gaming. There are people out there who would bring new life to the industry, and break away from all the greedy suits who destroyed it, but they can't because of all the F2P/big name companies choking everything else out. They ensure that quality will never return to the industry, and make sure to snuff out any passion developers have.

But, specific to League, they just refuse to balance the game, more or less. They want to make the easy champs stronger so that whales feel good about playing them, and they refuse to fix problem champions because they're popular and lucrative when broken.

What does it mean to be "greedy" in their case?

To be greedy means to live life for money, and to care about nothing but money, as Beck and Ma (Riot and Tencent CEOs) do. When you have a product you claim to care so much about, yet do nothing with the billions in revenue you make every year to help it, that is greed. When you own a company full of people who care about their work, and genuinely want to do their best, but tell them to half-ass everything to save money, and refuse to give proper resources, that is greed. When you straight up lie to the faces of the millions of people who play your game, that is greed.

What they do with that money is pay off employees, pay for the costs of running the game, organize e-sport competitions with prize pools and support the further development of the game. This also means making more skins, starting the entire cycle again.

That's what they do with a fraction of it. The rest goes to greedy people like Beck, before he sold out to Tencent, and Ma. The last time they released a financial report, they were making billions in revenue. No game costs billions to run. With all that profit, you'd think they could pay for competent programmers, designers, and all that. But, they don't. They instead pocket the money to try and fill that hole they feel money will fill, and give fuck all to the developers.

EndGamer11Sep 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

In short, they perpetuated the death of gaming. There are people out there who would bring new life to the industry, and break away from all the greedy suits who destroyed it, but they can't because of all the F2P/big name companies choking everything else out. They ensure that quality will never return to the industry, and make sure to snuff out any passion developers have.

Who are these "people who would save gaming"? Indie Devs? Disgruntled employees?

Are you implying that AAA games cannot have quality? Only Indie games can be 4/5 games? Straight false.

But, specific to League, they just refuse to balance the game, more or less. They want to make the easy champs stronger so that whales feel good about playing them, and they refuse to fix problem champions because they're popular and lucrative when broken.

Game balance is difficult, and not very easy to see. I can say with confidence that LoL is more balanced than it was 4 years ago.

To be greedy means to live life for money, and to care about nothing but money, as Beck and Ma (Riot and Tencent CEOs) do. When you have a product you claim to care so much about, yet do nothing with the billions in revenue you make every year to help it, that is greed. When you own a company full of people who care about their work, and genuinely want to do their best, but tell them to half-ass everything to save money, and refuse to give proper resources, that is greed. When you straight up lie to the faces of the millions of people who play your game, that is greed.

It's easy to say that the ~~evil CEO's~~ hate customers and employees and just want to line their pockets, then assume that employees are instructed to perform inefficiently. The quality of work done by Riot recently proves you wrong, however.

That's what they do with a fraction of it. The rest goes to greedy people like Beck, before he sold out to Tencent, and Ma. The last time they released a financial report, they were making billions in revenue. No game costs billions to run. With all that profit, you'd think they could pay for competent programmers, designers, and all that. But, they don't. They instead pocket the money to try and fill that hole they feel money will fill, and give fuck all to the developers.

Ah, the greedy Brandon Beck, owner of the most played video game worldwide. Net Worth of 50 Million. Less than pro football players make in a year. Also obligatory sellout to (((Tencent))).

Earlier you said "billions of PROFITS" which is very different than revenue. Which is it?

Currently, Riot's very competent programmers are writing the new alpha client.

Overall, you seem to grossly misunderstand how Riot and companies in general operate.

ElikainSep 11, 20161 votes

Again, you're beating around the bush so freaking much that you've written a wall of text that doesn't implicate Riot in anything. And the "death of gaming"? What the hell is that?

There are people out there who would bring new life to the industry, and break away from all the greedy suits who destroyed it, but they can't because of all the F2P/big name companies choking everything else out.

Again, too general of a statement, no tangible evidence or "new life to the industry" you're talking about. Refer to the Black Desert Online, the game that was supposedly going to revolutionize MMOs, and if failed miserably, disappointing all the players who had to cough up dollar after a dollar on shit they didn't want and yet couldn't do without to function. I'm not putting a blame on anyone here, maybe it was those assholes on the other continent that really didn't care about the western market all that much and didn't care if the game takes off or not. They literally took our money and are now letting BDO die.

Riot doesn't hold a monopoly on MOBA genre or the F2P model. This is how this generation wants their games to be and the developers have to adjust. Riot was one of the first to do this and League owes the majority of it's success to this business decision.

The last time they released a financial report, they were making billions in revenue. No game costs billions to run.

Maybe. And yet, you are not the one who is going to tell them how to spend their money. And you don't know if they plan to invest in other projects than just League or not, you keep thinking they hide their dope money under their beds and laugh maniacally to our stupidity. Some Rioters did point out that they do work on other, not League related projects and exploring other avenues. Maybe in the future, Riot Games will finally have 2 games under their belt, equally successful.

With all that profit, you'd think they could pay for competent programmers, designers, and all that. But, they don't.

Again, you're not the one who is going to tell them how many employees their company is going to have. I don't see a drop in quality in their game, considering that new features are constantly being delivered to us, LCU is underway, champion splashes are dramatically better than they used to be, even the reworks and class updates are going more and beyond the expectations. Even Ultimate Skins attempt something outside the possibilities of the previous skin lines and the quality bar on the League itself is being raised on a daily basis.

I don't see what you see and if you don't like it, the easiest option is to leave. That's all i can say to you. Find a new game to play.

Gary B EnkelisSep 11, 20161 votes

No... I think you're mistaken in several parts.

Look at any game or tournament and I'm sure you'll find several skill shot reliant champs. Actually I can't think of many champs that don't rely on some skillshots....

I can't speak on your ideas of modern gaming or "old-timers." If you are implying that the quality of this game is poor, well, that's your opinion and I don't believe it's a fact. Well I don't know too much about it but I do think this game has some nice stuff.

Riot is certainly not contributing to the death of gaming. That is ridiculous. Gaming is not dying. Games have been around for a long time and I do not see that changing.

I can't speak on your idea of greed.

NiyumiSep 11, 20161 votes

Highest winrate champs in Master+: Win Nhao, Talon, Annie, Pan, J4, Quinn...

Remind me, which of those champions takes ANY amount of skill? How many have to aim? Hmm...

And yes, Riot is most definitely contributing to the death of gaming. But, that would imply gaming wasn't already dead. They're just using the empty husk of gaming as a disguise to cover up their nice little cash grab they've got going here. No company cares about their product beyond how much money it makes anymore. No game company would spend money to make their game the best it can be if there wasn't some kind of income potential in the money spent... that kind of company died off years ago. No, now we just have greedy, slimy suits who should be forced to live on some remote island in charge of things, and they don't care about anything but money. So now we have shitty quality, dead stories and characters, emotionless music, and terrible imbalance.

See, I know that most people these days grew up when shitty companies were the norm, so they think that is normal. No one remembers how gaming used to be, and most people who do gave up on it all a while ago. So, honestly, I don't know why I make such a big deal about greedy companies with assholes in charge of them, since everyone else is just going to advocate and enable them.

Gary B EnkelisSep 11, 20161 votes

Are you for real? All of them have to aim, except maybe XinZhao ... But I would say that aiming the knockback of his ultimate is a thing. I don't know about him. All of them take skill. Don't be ridiculous. I'm not an expert on these champions but I welcome experts to speak up.

No, Riot is not contributing to the death of gaming. Gaming is not already dead. People have played games for years. Children play games and then become game playing adults who have children. Gaming is alive. Maybe it's neither alive nor dead? I dunno. It's just what it is. I dunno.

I'll admit you may be right that some champions may be easier than others and have a good win rate because of it. I don't know here.

I don't understand a lot of your other stuff. It's kinda mumbo jumbo to me. That's my fault.

NiyumiSep 11, 20161 votes

Look at their kits. Where does the vast majority of their damage come from? Not skillshots or complex mechanics, no. They just click on you and win. Quinn and her AA, Annie and her Q + ult, Anivia and her ult + E, and so on. There is no skill involved in clicking on someone and watching them instantly drop dead.

Sure, video games as a concept are a thing, but gaming is dead. It's like a piece of dead art, or dead music. It's still technically art or music, but the soul of it is missing. I know a lot of people didn't play games 20 years ago, but companies actually cared about what they were doing, talked to their playerbase, and lived for more than just money. But, that generation of developers has died off or retired, and now we have a bunch of greedy suits who want nothing but money, and don't care about their product one way or another so long as it makes money. So, yes, gaming is dead. Has been for 10 years now, ever since F2P and DLC started to catch on.

Gary B EnkelisSep 11, 20161 votes

Can you explain to me why XinZhao Quinn Annie Anivia etc do not get played as often as Lucian Ezreal Jhin etc at the highest level of ranked play? All these champions are good, but why the difference in popularity? I don't know tournament stats but I'd guess it's similar. Why?

Masters+ : Most Popular Champions (9/2/2016 - 9/9/2016)

You're trying to say gaming is dead and I don't understand... People have been playing games for thousands of years. A lot longer than anyone here has been alive. What do you mean games are dead? What do you mean the soul is missing? Are you not having fun in your games? Sounds like a personal problem.

I don't understand your greedy suit thing either. I've spent barely any money on this game. If anything I'm at fault for not giving a game I've played and enjoyed for years so little besides time. I dunno.

Stick In MuddSep 11, 20164 votes

This is really bizarre.

Talon; has skillshot W and Ult. - Half of kit is skillshot. Annie; W and Ult - Half of kit J4; Q and E - Half of kit Quin; Q and Ult - Half of kit. Xin Zhao - You have a point, except for arguably his Ult which can be cast anytime.

Most champions in this game have half skillshot kit. Do you want every champion to be like Ezreal and Xerath where everything is a skillshot? Should there be no AA focused kit like Jax or Xin? Will Marksmen exist in your universe?

NiyumiSep 11, 20161 votes

Talon: If you miss W you're special needs, and your ult is a PBAoE, not a skillshot that you can actually miss.

Annie: Again, if you miss W you're special needs. R is GTAoE, not a skillshot.

J4: E is negligible damage anyway, so it doesn't matter. Q is nearly impossible to miss.

Quinn: Ult is not a skillshot, not even the old one. Q is largely irrelevant since most of her damage is AA spam.

See, a lot of champions don't have targeted bullshit to compose 90% of their damage like these ones. Someone like Azir, Oriana, or anyone like that, has to do all kinds of aiming, positioning, and deal with their kits in order to do a fraction of the damage someone like Annie or Quinn does for clicking on you.

In my universe, sure, you can have easy champions who do nothing but AA spam. But, you're not going to be absurdly rewarded for it, since you're taking the easy way out. You're not going to one shot people, and you're not going to heal for half your health per auto. You're going to, you know, do low, sustained damage that hurts over time -- what Riot says ADCs are, but really aren't. But, if you wanna be bursty, you can have AAs like Graves, where they can be dodged / blocked and can miss.

Stick In MuddSep 12, 20161 votes

In my universe, sure, you can have easy champions who do nothing but AA spam. But, you're not going to be absurdly rewarded for it, since you're taking the easy way out. You're not going to one shot people, and you're not going to heal for half your health per auto. You're going to, you know, do low, sustained damage that hurts over time

But then you'd just have a game with those 'skillshot' champions. The weaker ones couldn't be played b/c they suck.

Let's take the damage reduction, as you are suggesting, and run with it. What would they deal then? If Annie isn't able to one shot you, then what percentage damage should she deal? 80% damage compared to 'skillshot' champs?

Even if it's at 80%, if Annie can get fed, then she can still one shot people. And she can get fed easier b/c she is easier to play, thereby nullifying the damage reduction. But then let's push it further; 60% damage. We could keep going until there is no way Annie can one shot, ever, even when fed, but that would just make her garbage, and therefore may as well not exist.

It seems you want a game that has no right-click-to-win ADC champs, a game where you have to constantly aim and position yourself correctly, a game that gives every player the same health and damage output; you know, a game like Call of Duty.

Perhaps MOBAs aren't your thing. That's not a bad thing, it's just something to consider.

JackMcSnipeyzSep 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Highest winrate champs in Master+: Win Nhao, Talon, Annie, Pan, J4, Quinn...

Remind me, which of those champions takes ANY amount of skill? How many have to aim? Hmm...

And yes, Riot is most definitely contributing to the death of gaming. But, that would imply gaming wasn't already dead. They're just using the empty husk of gaming as a disguise to cover up their nice little cash grab they've got going here. No company cares about their product beyond how much money it makes anymore. No game company would spend money to make their game the best it can be if there wasn't some kind of income potential in the money spent... that kind of company died off years ago. No, now we just have greedy, slimy suits who should be forced to live on some remote island in charge of things, and they don't care about anything but money. So now we have shitty quality, dead stories and characters, emotionless music, and terrible imbalance.

See, I know that most people these days grew up when shitty companies were the norm, so they think that is normal. No one remembers how gaming used to be, and most people who do gave up on it all a while ago. So, honestly, I don't know why I make such a big deal about greedy companies with assholes in charge of them, since everyone else is just going to advocate and enable them.

If gaming is dead, why dont you go enjoy some fresh air instead of complaining about it on forums.

Joe ManaSep 11, 20162 votes

[deleted]

QuarterQueerSep 11, 20161 votes

^truth^

PermabannedGarenSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Highest winrate champs in Master+: Win Nhao, Talon, Annie, Pan, J4, Quinn...

I get that you're extremely unintelligent, so allow me to do you the kindness of explaining a basic concept of statistics to you: a low sample size yields inaccurate data. Masters+ consists of a very small amount of players, and as such the win rates involved are not reliable.

Also, can you link the site you're pulling those statistics from? I'd also be willing to bet that all or most of those champions have low play rates even by the standards of those elos.

Gary B EnkelisSep 11, 20161 votes

The stats are similar to stats from here:

Master+ : Highest Win Rate Champions (9/2/2016 - 9/9/2016)

And yeah those high win rate champs aren't the most popular, like XinZhao being in 0.6% of Master+ games this week (if it matters):

Master+ : Most Popular Champions (9/2/2016 - 9/9/2016)

I dunno.

NiyumiSep 11, 20161 votes

Highest winrate in plat (where the "balance" is focused, apparently): MF, Skarner, Fiddles, Anivia, Koggy, Jinx, Yas, Kayle... Another bunch of braindead clickers. Hmm...

Lowest winrate in plat: Azir, Ryze, Vlad, Yorick, Rek'sai, Tahm, Corki... it's almost like the more complex champions are struggling to even compete against the braindead clickers. But no, that couldn't be! That would imply Riot favors whales, and does not give a damn about making a fair, balanced game! Now that's just absurd.

Gary B EnkelisSep 11, 20161 votes

Plat is like the very bottom of where they focus balance. I'd guess, anyway. I don't know.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jLGvQ3Wk-before-you-make-a-post-about-balance

Professional Play To properly gauge a champion's strength in terms of balance you need an even playing field. Outside pro-level play the skill of the player can be a match's downfall as much as the champion. Pro-level play is the closest one can get to an even playing field between champions and thus the best way to analyze where the balance of the system itself stands.

This is not to say balancing for lower levels doesn't happen, but it happens much less because it is difficult to cater to certain skill levels without adversely affecting everyone else.

Design Core As stated by Scarizard ... there are many factors that play into balance decisions. One of the larger bits of Riot's balance philosophy is that balance is geared towards platinum and above play, as it is generally regarded that games below that rank have just as much power disparity from player skill and understanding as it does from actual system balance.

This is not quoted exactly but it is the gist, I think.

PermabannedGarenSep 12, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Highest winrate in plat (where the "balance" is focused, apparently): MF, Skarner, Fiddles, Anivia, Koggy, Jinx, Yas, Kayle... Another bunch of braindead clickers. Hmm...

Lowest winrate in plat: Azir, Ryze, Vlad, Yorick, Rek'sai, Tahm, Corki... it's almost like the more complex champions are struggling to even compete against the braindead clickers. But no, that couldn't be! That would imply Riot favors whales, and does not give a damn about making a fair, balanced game! Now that's just absurd.

Holy shit you just called Yasuo and Anivia "braindead clickers" but then called Vlad, a champion whose main harass is literally point and click with the rest of his abilities mostly being AOE centered around him as "complex".

Even worse, you actually called OLD YORICK complex. A champion who literally wins fights by clicking all of his keys on the enemy.

Are you real? Don't answer, I'm already aware that you're exactly as smart as you wound.

Also, you're still using win rate in isolation.

Of the champions you named as the ones with high win rates, only Yasuo, Miss Fortune, and Jinx crack a 7% play rate.

You're also not smart enough to read more into the data. If you were, you'd realize that Fiddlesticks is pretty much exclusively played by mains.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=&sortBy=general.experience&order=descend

His playerbase on average is the most experienced in the game.

You also ignore that Rito literally just buffed Riven, who is higher skill cap than any of the low win rate champions you mentioned save Azir and I'd imagine the new Ryze (don't dispute this, you'll just make yourself look stupid).

Your inability to climb isn't because Riot keeps the champions you like bad. It's because you are bad.

QuarterQueerSep 11, 20161 votes

I mean, a lot of skillshot reliant champs and just harder to use, people don't like them because they're part of a more intense playstyle.

A lot of these champs are underplayed because using a skillshot also has the implication of missing, and a missed skillshot could mean a kill or something. I can see why this would discourage players from being these champs, but even highly reliant skillshot champs like ezreal are seen a ton for me.

They aren't contributing to the death of gaming, either. The game has millions of players, and if everyone thought about it the way you did, I don't think all those people would play it? People are never going to stop playing games, thats a fact, but have your own opinions.

Sure though, easier champs are stronger, but thats literally because they're easier. All champs are pretty balanced, and are capable of a lot of stuff, but the easier champs seem stronger because its easier to output that capability effectively..

AstôlfoSep 11, 20161 votes

Do you ever get tired of making troll threads?

CatastropSep 11, 20161 votes

Because skillshots are the only sign of skill, I'm not surprised, game knowledge is apparently worthless these days compared to mechanical skill.

NiyumiSep 11, 20161 votes

Game knowledge is meaningless if you can just click on someone and win.

ElikainSep 11, 20161 votes

There's only a handful of champions that are beginner oriented and yet, they are not even played in the LCS. Whatever issue you have with the game, it falls through if it doesn't work in the LCS. Pros don't play something they can be flashy and skillful with unless this is the strongest champion currently and in the meta.

Currently on Marksmen, Ashe, Jhin and Sivir were in the meta. And that was all that was played, with some slight deviations here and there. But these 3 were the majority. If you wish, go back in time (search the internet) and find what was in the meta just a season ago, retrospectively. Then go back some more. You'd find champions with varying skill levels and mechanics. There was never a meta of point and click champions.

All SkillzzSep 11, 20161 votes

I love ezreal and i play him ap only. when you can miss everything when your 20-0 an die to someone who can right click you that is 0-20 lol. cause you missed.

NiyumiSep 11, 20161 votes

No, I'm talking just pure numbers. Any AA spammer will win a damage race if the fight goes on for more than 2 seconds. Annie/Anivia/Talon/etc will burst far harder than Oriana/Syndra/Brand/etc.

Attticus FinchSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Because, honestly, any skillshot-reliant champion, or any champion with mechanics beyond clicking on people, is garbage and never played. The easiest champion you can think of will always be the strongest, hands down.

But, that's just how modern gaming is; reward incompetence, milk whales, make a profit. Who the fuck cares about the quality of your game? That's for those old-timers who actually gave a fuck about what they were doing.

*claps* Kudos, Riot. Good job being a part of the death of gaming, and exercising your greed. Proud of you.

So which mage was it that blew you the fuck out while you were trying to get your #LCS #Zedmain skills on, thus necessitating this thread? Was it Swain?

NiyumiSep 11, 20161 votes

I don't even play Zed. But, it's not just one game. Every single game I'm in, the braindead ADC and whatever other targeted bullshit they have just hard carries the game, even if I'm hard carrying early game. When you're 10/2 and lose to the 4/8 Win Nhao as Poppy (even when you land your stun and everything else), there's an issue.