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Why can Tryndamere ult through any CC, including silence?

Trash MammaI··5 votes·4,026 views

Literally why is he the ONLY champion in a game with a handicap on an ult like that champs with similar abilities don't get that handicap and actually have a weakness to it other than just run away and hope he can't kill you during it.

Aatrox old revive passive made him able to move slowly and couldn't attack during the revive period. Now on his ult he has to get a kill to activate it

DrMundo ultimate requires him to use a chunk of hp before he gets the healing. Even then his healing is cut down by grevious wounds and even with that he's still able to be hurt and potentially die during it

Ekko ultimate is telegraphed showing where he will be placed after resetting and while he's backtracking he can't use any abilities or move because he's stuck in that animation

Kayle ultimate prevents her from attacking and has a highly telegraphed circle to show where her attack will land ON a delay.

There are others that I don't want to go through the list of everyone but you get the point, so why can Tryndamere get a free pass on his ultimate which is unhealthy for the game.

Don't give me that "just kite him" bull either. Not everyone is able to kite someone who dashes on a refreshable CD has a slow and can RNG himself (r%%%%%ed design to give crit that early) to killing you.

This champion is horribly designed and incredibly toxic and infuriating to play against. If you get a lead vs him he'll just ult and run away and you can't stop it because he can use it through ANY CC then eventually just split push effectively taking his laning partner out of the game forcing it to be a 4v4 to deal with him over and over because of how stupidly fast his kit allows him to splitpush and take towers.

His ultimate needs to be changed to just taking reduced damage or gaining a shield so that he has actual counterplay other than sitting in the lane with him and screaming like an old man for him to get off your lawn

30 Comments

Kai Guy4 votes

Why can Gangplank eat oranges when stunned? Because its just part of the kit.

nm10103 votes

I think an ability that functions as a qss makes sense when it works through cc, an ability that doesn't remove the cc makes much less sense.

Kai Guy1 votes

Why does it not make sense to have some ability's whos power budget involves their ability to be cast thru CC? There are several examples of ability's which break standard "rules" of the game and are budgeted because of that.

nm10102 votes

Because, as we have learned throughout the years, making abilities that break fundamental game rules are not good for game health. You end up with things like "true stealth" or items and summoners on a basic ability. Or on the other side of things, champions like Swain who are limited more than others (his tether is the only one broken by loss of vision in the game).

I would argue that any newer champion that breaks core game mechanics is immediately one of the most hated champions in the game. I don't even think Trynd is particularly a problem, but that kind of design philosophy is. I would bet that the mechanic is removed if/when he gets a rework, is balanced around having a cleanse, or removed after his mandatory 3-6 months in the LCS spotlight.

Kai Guy1 votes

V1.0.0.86 was when Trynd R could be cast thru Stuns. Just to give you a time line for how long that's in the game.

The game started with "true stealth". You had to pay to get vision. once upon a time Evelynn could stack item 3068 and stand on people to kill them.

Any ability that does something new breaks the rules. So... No new mechanics ever? just recycling what's already been done in some new combination is good design philosophy? Why you wanna take my Bard away? Dude only has his Q on release by your rules.

I don't adhere to that belief personally so we may just need to disagree. My opinion is New is not always better but stagnation is death. With time any issue mechanics can be put into a balanced place or gutted as needed. I want riot as devs to always take risks and always look to keep gameplay shifting into different metas.

Also going off the Boards... Any new champion tends to be pretty hated instantly. OMG OP. OMG WEAK AF GET THIS GARBO CHAMP OUTTA MY GAMES.

Generally it seems anything that requires players to learn how to interact with it is unpopular. Don't chase the singed had to become a fucking Meme before playerbase got it.

I don't mind your view, I just don't share it. Back on topic, I just don't think making his R a cleanse ontop of its current function would be an improvement just because other abilitys similar do exactly that. I don't need it to be like Alistar Olaf Gangplank item 3140 it can have its own identity imo.

nm10101 votes

V1.0.0.86 was when Trynd R could be cast thru Stuns. Just to give you a time line for how long that's in the game.

I am aware.

The game started with "true stealth". You had to pay to get vision. once upon a time could stack and stand on people to kill them.

I wasn't aware you could stealth under turrets back then, unless I missed something this is not a similar comparison. Eve followed the rules of stealth, the obscure mechanic did not.

Any ability that does something new breaks the rules. So... No new mechanics ever? just recycling what's already been done in some new combination is good design philosophy? Why you wanna take my away? Dude only has his Q on release by your rules.

This is false and why I specified fundamental game rules. A stealth champion that ignores anti stealth is problematic, but a champion that can aoe stasis everything is fine.

I don't adhere to that belief personally so we may just need to disagree. My opinion is New is not always better but stagnation is death. With time any issue mechanics can be put into a balanced place or gutted as needed. I want riot as devs to always take risks and always look to keep gameplay shifting into different metas.

You right, soccer has had so many rule changes to stay fresh throughout the years. League has to choose whether to appeal to people who always need something new to keep their attention and people who enjoy league as a competitive esport. Right now I would argue neither side is fully happy.

Also going off the Boards... Any new champion tends to be pretty hated instantly. OMG OP. OMG WEAK AF GET THIS GARBO CHAMP OUTTA MY GAMES.

A lot of that comes from the immediate presence the champion has in every game, including ranked. I also would argue that at least 50% are overtuned from release or shortly after.

Generally it seems anything that requires players to learn how to interact with it is unpopular. Don't chase the singed had to become a fucking Meme before playerbase got it.

Minimizing impact and counterplay are different things. Could you ward against Zoe on release? Yes. Did it stop her from having a 1400+ range instakill option on nearly no cooldown and less than 1 second to react? Nope.

I don't mind your view, I just don't share it. Back on topic, I just don't think making his R a cleanse ontop of its current function would be an improvement just because other abilitys similar do exactly that. I don't need it to be like it can have its own identity imo.

I'm not sure you quite understand my view as you misconstrued it quite a bit. It isn't about being unique or not, it is about following the core game rules. If he can cast the ability during cc he should have a cleanse. Even if they added it now, it isn't like Tryndamere is dominating the meta and that would make a difference.

Eonslegacy1 votes

FACE THE WIND

Trash MammaI1 votes

{quoted}

I think an ability that functions as a qss makes sense when it works through cc, an ability that doesn't remove the cc makes much less sense.

It doesn't say it in his skills tooltip that it "removes cc" because it doesn't it just works through it while still leaving all his other abilities locked out.

Sir Saltarin3 votes

Because he would be useless without that

Xavanic2 votes

personally with trynds E being on a 3 second CD rn, i feel his ult should no longer be usable while cc'd, it gives more counterplay to a frustrating and honestly just annoying mechanic, esp since telling his Ult apart from his other shit is hard, since he screams with both, additionally i feel we need a champ specifically made to remove buffs such as kayle ult, trynd ult, taric ult, etc.

KFCeytron2 votes

It only starts mitigating damage once he takes what would otherwise be a lethal hit, so if he couldn't use it while CCed, he would have to use it early and waste part of it. That would probably mean a buff to its duration so that he can still expect to get five seconds of being immortal at 1 health. Of course, the problem then is that he might occasionally be free to ult right before dying, giving him more than 5 seconds of being immortal at 1 health.

Eonslegacy1 votes

Resulting in him just using it to take turrets with the full 6/7/8 or 9 second duration, doing the inting sion strat and ruining any teamcomp with limited or no cc. Becoming a insanely broken tp powered counterpick.

Kaioko1 votes

Because unlike any of the other champions you mentioned, Tryn really doesn't have any type of hard CC/Ranged abilities/inherent tankyness which is why it was decided upon his release that he should be able to ultimate through CC.

I agree that the champion design hasn't aged well, but he's not game breaking either.

Eonslegacy1 votes

he wasnt originally released with it, it was added, and it was because he was garbo tier or god tier and was super binary based on matchup and couldnt receive any changes to make him balanced so they took the reliablity rout instead of the counter pick one and let him R anytime during a mini rework

i think

Kazekiba1 votes

Alistar can Ult while CCd and so can a few other champions.

Its not exclusively Trynd. If Tryn gets himself stunned on a veigar cage or focused down while Malz ulted,its not fair to leave him vulnerable when the invul is the central piece of his kit. CC doesnt kill you and his entire shtick is not dying

Trash MammaI1 votes

{quoted}

Alistar can Ult while CCd and so can a few other champions.

Its not exclusively Trynd. If Tryn gets himself stunned on a veigar cage or focused down while Malz ulted,its not fair to leave him vulnerable when the invul is the central piece of his kit. CC doesnt kill you and his entire shtick is not dying

Alistar's ultimate exclusively says REMOVE CC so it's obvious he can and I can't think of any other champs that can use abilities while silences and your logic on the cage/malz ult makes no sense because if that were the case Kayle should be able to use her ult while CC'd. So should ekko. Kayle kept her ultimate after her rework because it was core to her kit. Same for Ekko his ultimate basically defines him. Kayle has no mobility and only a speed boost whereas Tryndamere does he also has a slow just like kayle that doesn't exactly have to be in melee range and is a lot easier to use than Kayle's Q. His ultimate is badly designed and should be changed it's not healthy for gameplay and its not fun to play against someone. It's almost as bad as Ezreal/Kassadin getting free summoner spells in their kit

Eonslegacy1 votes

ekko originally could use it in pbe/original design, it also costed 0 mana, he received updates before live to make him vulnerable to cc, then updates later that gave a mana cost to his R. Fact is, tryndamere IS BALANCED around that R working like it does.

Slim Gragas1 votes

You try playing Tryndamere without his ultimate, and thats why he can use it whenever he wants. Because the moment he'd spin into an enemy team's face he would get deleted without it. Its just a part of the kit.

Trash MammaI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slim Gragas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k78HhjEs,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-20T20:24:12.286+0000)

You try playing Tryndamere without his ultimate, and thats why he can use it whenever he wants. Because the moment he'd spin into an enemy team's face he would get deleted without it. Its just a part of the kit.

He's not a teamfighter anyway. He's supposed to be strong at dueling not unfair. If a Tryndamere is in a teamfight (unless he's got 50 kills early on) then he's playing him wrong. Plenty of champions have to time their abilities right (including squishy ones) or else they get screwed he should be no exception

Slim Gragas1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k78HhjEs,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-06-20T21:27:01.523+0000)

He's not a teamfighter anyway. He's supposed to be strong at dueling not unfair. If a Tryndamere is in a teamfight (unless he's got 50 kills early on) then he's playing him wrong. Plenty of champions have to time their abilities right (including squishy ones) or else they get screwed he should be no exception

I dont care if hes splitpushing or teamfighting, hes a sub-par champion regardless and people only think hes remotely broken in low elo. Very easily counterable champion overall.

Trash MammaI2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slim Gragas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k78HhjEs,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T21:59:10.519+0000)

I dont care if hes splitpushing or teamfighting, hes a sub-par champion regardless and people only think hes remotely broken in low elo. Very easily counterable champion overall.

That's really stupid logic you got there. Riot's entire reworking project started because champions have unfun/unhealthy and otherwise difficult to balance/really oudated kits. Regardless of what elo they're good in. I played vs him before making this post as garen and won vs him, doesn't mean it wasn't infuriating to deal with.

Slim Gragas1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k78HhjEs,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T22:53:38.682+0000)

That's really stupid logic you got there. Riot's entire reworking project started because champions have unfun/unhealthy and otherwise difficult to balance/really oudated kits. Regardless of what elo they're good in. I played vs him before making this post as garen and won vs him, doesn't mean it wasn't infuriating to deal with.

Tryndamere is seriously one of the easiest people to lane against because of his simple and predictable kit. I've never heard people complain about Tryndamere ingame, I only know of low elos that call him OP because "omg he literally cant die, no counterplay!". The only time i've even had a problem against him is when he can splitpush for free, but thats up to how your team plays against him strategically. And for his ult, it can't be stopped by any means because its SPECIFICALLY for when he is low HP unlike all other invulnerabilities that offer strategy at all times like kindred/kayle/taric. Counter him with your champion/build, try to burst him because theres plenty of times that Tryndameres die so fast they couldn't even react to press R. And when he DOES press R, you can still CC him and wait it out.

Haze972 votes

You haven't played against a good Tryndamere main.

Eonslegacy1 votes

The simpler a kit is, the more your champion matters more than your skill. If tmere had no E spin couldnt cast R during cc, but gained up to 200% ad and the flat ad on his Q passive, he would be "simple" and "easy to understand/beat" with certain champs, but it wouldnt stop him from literally right clicking your turret ina 1v1 lvl 6 and winning 3 times ina row.

Eonslegacy1 votes

Would you rather fight a tmere that cant cast R while cced

but gained 15 more potential ad from Q passive and 50 more base healing and his R lasted 1.5 and 3 seconds longer based on lvl instead?

5or6stores1 votes

Because he's outdated and should've gotten a rework years ago.

FSRER1 votes

Why are people now complaining about tryndamere? Because tryndamere no longer goes duelist/fighter items like he used to (bork statik ie) but instead full cooldown or he will die even if he ults, before he reaches the enemy team. And god, damnit. Tryndamere is one of the easiest champions to counter with almost anything! You play a tank? Alright, get frozen heart. You play a duelist? Alright, go in, go out. You play a ranged poke abomination (what is wrong with you?) at toplane? Alright, don't waste your escape abilities on poking him and just play safe. He will eventually dive you if you do any of these and if you have played the lane properly he will just die under your tower and look like an idiot for doing so.

Eonslegacy1 votes

outdated unfun champ that turns into a stat stick everytime they change items, either broken or useless much like udyr. He is just 1 of many. But this post is just about how strange it is his R is the only GTFO button that works through cc that doesnt break it.

Eonslegacy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k78HhjEs,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-20T18:25:56.189+0000)

Literally why is he the ONLY champion in a game with a handicap on an ult like that champs with similar abilities don't get that handicap and actually have a weakness to it other than just run away and hope he can't kill you during it.

Aatrox old revive passive made him able to move slowly and couldn't attack during the revive period. Now on his ult he has to get a kill to activate it

DrMundo ultimate requires him to use a chunk of hp before he gets the healing. Even then his healing is cut down by grevious wounds and even with that he's still able to be hurt and potentially die during it

Ekko ultimate is telegraphed showing where he will be placed after resetting and while he's backtracking he can't use any abilities or move because he's stuck in that animation

Kayle ultimate prevents her from attacking and has a highly telegraphed circle to show where her attack will land ON a delay.

There are others that I don't want to go through the list of everyone but you get the point, so why can Tryndamere get a free pass on his ultimate which is unhealthy for the game.

Don't give me that "just kite him" bull either. Not everyone is able to kite someone who dashes on a refreshable CD has a slow and can RNG himself (r%%%%%ed design to give crit that early) to killing you.

This champion is horribly designed and incredibly toxic and infuriating to play against. If you get a lead vs him he'll just ult and run away and you can't stop it because he can use it through ANY CC then eventually just split push effectively taking his laning partner out of the game forcing it to be a 4v4 to deal with him over and over because of how stupidly fast his kit allows him to splitpush and take towers.

His ultimate needs to be changed to just taking reduced damage or gaining a shield so that he has actual counterplay other than sitting in the lane with him and screaming like an old man for him to get off your lawn

Because riot wanted to buff his 45% winrate self, but didnt wanna buff him by extending the time of his R or increasing his mobility or damage so they increased his reliability. They didnt want tmere to end up being one of those counter pick or lose style champs that default won or lost with no interaction/counterplay, so now he is how he is.

Pika Fox1 votes

Because theres no point to a squishy champion built around death immunity if you can just negate the death immunity.

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